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The Forum > Article Comments > The gap between rape and consent > Comments

The gap between rape and consent : Comments

By Monika Kruesmann, published 9/3/2006

Just saying 'no', just doesn’t cut it.

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And for the upcoming Aussie Men’s Day, I suggest the following agenda for the year:

Men demand that women stop their over-servicing with household duties or other inconsequential or unwanted services. We can do them ourselves when really needed, or pay someone to do them. Go and get a job instead and contribute equally to the mortgage, otherwise do not expect to own half the house just because you kept it clean. When you have sex, it will be because you equally want it and it will hold no monetary value for us. And if you have children – children you decided alone not to abort, children you will take with you post divorce or have brought from a previous marriage, any extramarital children, or generally all children you have total control over (i.e. your children), please do not expect a child support contribution any greater than your own contribution, and certainly no greater than half the actual, mutually agreed, direct costs
Posted by Seeker, Thursday, 9 March 2006 10:59:19 PM
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No means NO, it is as simple as that, if men cannot take NO for an answer they should be charged with rape, within marriage or not.

Robert's "big house" theory is a figment of most couples imagination, most couples I know are flat out feeding themselves and their families, let alone the woman bribing hubby with sex to buy a new home. This attitude in itself suggests sexism, as if the man controls the money, instead of both partners having equal input.

No does "cut it" as far as I'm concerned, if you are asked in a cafe, "would you like a coffe, madam?" and the answer is "NO" there is no "misunderstanding" NO means NO.
Posted by SHONGA, Friday, 10 March 2006 6:23:12 AM
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SHONGA,

I'm not talking about bribing, I'm talking about withholding something that should be part of an monogamous relationship to force a different issue. Quite different things.

We were flat out paying the bills to but the ex was so stuck in the making money by investing thing (and some prestige issues) that trivial items like cash flow did not matter much to her. Nor did she (and still does not) appear to feel much responsibility to contribute to the cost of her life herself, much easier to find ways of getting others to do most of the work. For the record I did a significant proportion of the inside housework and child care and all the outside work at home.

When both partners have equal input and one says yes and the other says no what decision do you make. In my view the decision goes to the one held most accountable for the decison - in my case the banks cared about my income and wanted my signature first.

I agree that "No" should cut it but it should cut it in other area's as well. That has to be balanced by a need for both partners to try and meet their partners needs, as The all seeing voice points out sometimes it requires more cooperation than enthusiasm (and I enclude visiting relatives, clothes shopping etc or whatever things an individual might not feel like doing but which are important to their partner in this).

I think that some people loose track of what it means to be in a committed relationship - it means moving some boundaries, loosing some control over your life, it means that your no impacts on another in a different way to the way it does outside such a relationship.

Try reading my original post again and take note that I make it clear that there are no solid answers there, rather a call for thought. I point out that there are other kinds of sexual violence in relationships than just not paying enough attention to "No".

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 10 March 2006 8:03:05 AM
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Robert,
There is one good answer, know your partner very well before you marry them. If there is a disagreement in the home and the wife witholds sex, that is fine, No stills means No. Remember it is not only Men who need sex, it is also acceptable for the man to withold it.

I understand your arguement mate, it is not one of consent or rape, but an arguement of wills, which should be determined long before a marriage occurs. If only couples would communicate with each other, and find out whether they were in love, or in lust before they tie the knot. Much too late to discover differences of opinion after the knot has been tied.

I have had one arguement with my wife in 15 years, we find communication easy.
Posted by SHONGA, Friday, 10 March 2006 10:36:43 AM
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R0bert

Your relationship problems were not about sex but about power. I have noted before that it would appear that your ex was very manipulative. There are many reasons for refusing sex, in your case it was about power. As it was in mine - after deliberately picking fault with me my former husband would then expect sex. And often just to get some peace I would lie back and submit - was that rape?

Shonga

I think I should point out that often the worst aspects of our partners are not necessarily obvious until too late. You are fortunate if you got it right.

As for the author's curtailing sex in advertising - I really don't see what difference that would make at all. I enjoy sexy men as much as the next woman (or man) and am prepared to tolerate those stupid Lynx deodorant ads if it means I get to see some male eye-candy. Attempting a Victorian-era style of cover-up and denial hasn't and doesn't work.

I know who had it right and that was the wonderful Aretha Franklin.

R. E. S. P. E. C. T.

For each other. It is a two way street one cannot expect respect without giving it. I have no hesitation in pointing out to my sisters if I think they are behaving poorly to the men in their lives. Although this doesn't happen very often simply because I don't associate much with 'user' type women. The same applies to men (as Patty pointed out) it behoves men to point out that using force (or manipulation) for sex is unacceptable.

Only when the sexes are more equal will rape become less of an issue. There will always be the criminal element. But for the majority of us the more empowered women are the less they are likely to use sex as a form of currency. And the more men accept women as fully human and not objects the less they will see sex as some kind of reward and more the expression of affection between two people.
Posted by Scout, Friday, 10 March 2006 11:43:20 AM
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IF we ban negros and muslims coming here we will have less rapes

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=38
Posted by hoppa, Friday, 10 March 2006 4:17:18 PM
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