War is always ugly.

SBS was probably after some recognition. but if you really believe the following then you are oblivious to the fact that the fire was raging well before and never needed a match to ignite it (again).

"On the one hand, the US led Coalition of the Willing is endeavouring to win the hearts and minds of the “Muslim moderates” by promising to deliver democracy and free speech to their homelands."

What a load of rubbish - one look at our TV screen will tell how the "west" got it wrong once again.

Just listen to those lies:

Coalition of the Willing ?
Win the hearts and minds ?
"Muslim moderates”?
Promising to deliver ?
Democracy ?
Free Speech ?

To the "arabs" the number one enemy is: the US which is symbolised by the existence of Israel in their "hearts and minds".

“Arabs have been reduced to an oil well that is easily ignited. A cursory perusal of the choice of words used to describe Arabs depicts them as always exploding with anger, inflamed by cartoons, reaching boiling point, erupting with violence, spilling over into the streets, stirring up anger, spreading terror cells and sparking new waves of terror.”

And:-

“By ignoring those who do not conform to the flag-burning, fist-waving, chanting mob, Coalition leaders risk alienating those who once aspired to live like the liberators.”

If these ‘moderates’ really exist, where are they? If they really exist, why don’t they put themselves forward to convince the world that all Arabs are not rioting lunatics? Until these mysterious ‘moderates’ actually appear on the scene and do something positive about the image of Arabs and Islam, the West will continue to believe that Arabs and Muslims are all tarred with the same brush.

Are these ‘moderates’ the people who go quiet or accuse us of discrimination every time any aspect of their religion is questioned? If they are, then the stereotypes will remain.

Leigh

Have aquick perusal of the following article in the New York Times.
'Iraqi Sunni Bloc to Rejoin Talks on Government'

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/international/middleeast/27iraq.html

(You need to register, but it is free)

That article will give some indication of where the moderates are. It'll also give a fairly accurate picture of unfolding events in Iraq.

I'd agree with the thrust of that article. An Iraqi government will form shortly. That will confirm the desperation of the insurgents is heightening. Thta's occurring because of this evidence of broad acceptance of democracy and a desire for peace by the Iraqi people.

See also Graham's Ambit Gambit of 27th February

'Dragon's teeth gambit leads to detente in Iraq'

http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/001223.html

An accurate assessment.

Joseph

Your article shows you dwelling upon the negatives of past events while ignoring the positives of the present. This is symptomatic of the many malcontent residents and ex-patriates from the mid-east. All races included. It also only serves to inspire the negative type comments often found on this forum. Now that is inflamatory and close to incendiary.

Joseph Said:

" it unites the moderates with the hard-liners by perpetuating stereotypes about Muslims as violent, volatile and uncivilised."

COMMENT: Actually, I would take a wild guess here and suggest that the Arabs (Muslims) themselves are the ones promoting the very stereotypes referred to here.

Consider this:

If a community has a value system which is equally balanced between volatility, hostility and peace and restraint, then the likelihood of such a community erupting into the excesses recently highlighted in the news would be far less.

BUT.

Centre of Balance
If a community has as its centre point, a proclivity to 'defend their religion' by means of violence, then it stands to reason and naturally follows that they will actually 'be' violent when the trigger is pulled.

Divine Right
In any community there will be the statistical loony fringe just as it will have its (equally loony) peaceniks. But what we are seeing is not this. This is a society which is heavily weighted on the side of violence and claims divine authorization for such actions.

Joseph also said:

What about the majority of Muslims from the cradle of civilisation who have a rational response to the revelations of these atrocities? By ignoring those who do not conform to the flag-burning, fist-waving, chanting mob, Coalition leaders risk alienating those who once aspired to live like the liberators.

COMMENT:
Actually, those 'moderates' underscore the seriousness and extent of the violent. They simply exist as a backdrop for those burning the flags and attacking the embassies. They are the props, the radicals are the actors.

These mass demonstrations occurr because someone 'organized' them. Where were the moderates at this point.

Joseph, its worth remembering how the Indians and Spanish were made 'an oil well' in one sense, as the millions (India) and tens of thousands (Spain) killed by invading Muslim armies. Read the Arab account of the prelude to the Battle of Tours.

What goes around.....comes around.

"I came, that they might have life" Jesus.

Tell me, how is it possible to blaspheme or insult a man like Mohammed?
Tell me, any Mulsim here, how can you follow a man that did the vile things that MOhammed did, as recorded in accounts written by his own followers?
Tell me, Mr Wakim, why don't murder, torture, rape and slavery bother you?
The fact is that anger and violence are central to Islam, from the times of the prophet until today. Any country that has a large number of Muslims immigrants is going to get a practical lesson in hate. Its coming.
But Muslims must blame anybody and eveybody for their problems, because if one looks at the evils of Muslims societies, one sees Islam written all over them.
America is wasting its time in Iraq. Democracy, equality and free speech are incompatible with Islam.

john kactuz

The silence is deafening, 129 Newspapers around the world published the cartoons of Mohammed,, I checked the ownership of 50 of those the Newspapers, the owners all belong to the same political/religious group, and it would not suprise me if all the Newspapers are owned by people who belong to the same God Club, what is their their agenda, the war against terror, against Iraq are just a smoke screen . its only a matter of time before Iran and Pakistan suffers the same fate as Iraq, maybe I am wrong I am just repeating what Benny Hinn said on his TV programme at Christmas, that the Holy Mosque in Jerusalem would soon be demolished to make way for a new Temple. if this Happens the third world war will begin you better believe it, we have to stop this happening, lets talk about it, before it is too late to do anything once it happens millions of people will die , has our government agreed to support the demolishion of the Holy Mosque. they seem to be spreading hatred of Muslims,

Dear Mango

regarding the destruction of the Al Aksa mosque, and its replacement with the Temple of Israel. This is one thing which is so inevitable, and unstoppable, that it's a waste of time trying to think of ways to prevent it.

It would not matter if world governments decided to assist or oppose, it is a certainty, and the only question is 'when'.

Pakistan would not be attacked unless a mindless pack of fanatics took control, and then, I think it would last about a week, unless there was a coup of sanity.

Iran is the most likely fulfiller of the beginning of Armageddon.
The reason it is unstoppable, is that the Islamic view (unless I'm wrong) is that it must occur also, its just that they think they are on the 'right' side. Sadly, they are lost and in darkness, for as long as they refuse to submit to Christ as Lord and Master of their hearts.

Calling him a mere prophet makes them a living insult to him, far worse than a few cartoons about Mohammed. But such insults are for God to deal with, not Christians or mankind. Cartoons about a mere man are nothing. Reducing the Creator of the World to a mere man is something else.

from John 1
"In the beginning was the Word.. and the Word was God"

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

All the middle east borders are a legacy of the first world war. The treaty of Versailles also created east Europen borders which swiftly led to the second world war.

Do we need to repeat history? Why do we have to keep Iraq as one country? Split it in three if that is what the people want. Czechoslavakia and Yugoslavia were also created at that time and have been allowed to split. I am yet to hear one good reason why we shouldn't split Iraq in three without a war.

The spirit of our time is self determination. There have been many attempts to create Frankenstein states, ie states that consist of neighbouring regions containing people with a different ethnic identity. Invariably they didn't last, eg Yugoslavia, Chechoslavakia, the pan arab republic, the union of Holland and Belgium after waterloo. The union of denmark and norway, sweden and norway, sweden and finland, Aceh, Papua and Indonesia etc etc etc.

If Arabs want money for their oil they'll sell it anyway but let them sort out their own borders.

When Karl Marx said that Religion is the Opium of the Masses he only got it partly right. He should have added that Religion is the Speed of the Extremists. The world has gone mad. There is a lot to be said for the sanity of atheism and humanism at times like these.

We continue to throw them matches because our leaders are not very bright, Commander in Chief George.Dubbya, who can't string a sentence together, Tony Blair, who replaced John Major as the head of the British Tories, and of course our own fearless leader little Johhny "Bonsai" Howard, goodness me what a motaly crew, sideshow alley.

At least Bush has an excuse, only 26% of the eligable voting population actually voted for him, the other two say more about the capacity of their oppositions than anything else, except perhaps the apathy of the voters.

Bonsai is a little bush.

you ISLAMOFACIST!!

The title says that Islam is not responsible at all for its violent response to Europe's 'freedom of expression' - it is like blaming a rape victim for being raped, and given that Islamic sheiks in Australia have called for the rape of Australian girls dressed, 'strapless, backless' it is no wonder an Islamist appologist author uses such title.

...................................................................

For those of you liberalists on this forum who laughed when i stated that Islamists have a hold on Europe, I refer you to the posted link.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19468_Europe_is_Shuffling_into_Darkness&only

""The governments of Europe have been tricked into believing that criticism of a belief is the same thing as criticism of a race. And so it is becoming increasingly difficult and dangerous to criticise a growing and powerful ideology within our midst. It may soon, in addition, be made illegal [because of the liberalists you want to tolerate intolerance and give away our freedom of expression].""

To Mr Wakim.

If Muslim people are offended that the Western media unfairly depictes them with a violent, passionate and religiously obssesed stereotype, then they could prevent that if they stopped conforming to that stereotype.

I am certain that there must be some Muslim people somewhere who have the capacity to be "moderate' and think like Westerners, the rouble is, they seem to be a bit thin on the ground. I personally will not accept any Muslim as being "moderate" unless they catagorically renounce Sharia Law. How about you? Where do you stand on this issue?

mangotreeone1,

Benny Hinn is right although I don't subscribe to most TV style preaching.

But here it is from The Lord's mouth:

[Signs of the End of the Age from Matthew 24]

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed.

Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation [Al Aqsa Mosque], spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

But I concede, I am Grateful that the Americans had removed the Acid baths and the Human Mincing machines before the real torture begins . As we could imagine, with all of those Infidels and that type of equipment, makes a pair of Undies on the head (For Interrogation) Look childish, after all Arabs were the only ones who possess the knowledge and skill to use the other equipment in Abu Ghraib : As Infidels are not intelligent enough to figure out how it worked.
We have been zapped by the Leftist Twilight Zone once more, Fairdinkum, it must be Genetic.
The Most frightening thing is : Can you sleep at night after compiling this junk?

Damn, hypocrisy seems to be a prevailing trend in these forums…:

Kacktuz: “Tell me, Mr Wakim, why don't murder, torture, rape and slavery bother you” – well it surely doesn’t bother US & British troops in the prisions in Iraq, nor in Guantanemo bay, nor in the CIA torture dens in Egypt…. But hey, I bet tall ‘those’ crazy muslims do that sh*t to each other all day!

And: “America is wasting its time in Iraq. Democracy, equality and free speech are incompatible with Islam” I’m relatively certain the corporations like Haliburton etc that are spinning cazillions off Iraq everyday wouldn’t fell that way. Let us not forget the real motives behind this invasion.

BD: “….its just that they think they are on the 'right' side. Sadly, they are lost and in darkness, for as long as they refuse to submit to Christ as Lord and Master of their hearts” – damn mate, way to be open minded. I like your logic – lets criticise the exclusion of all religions by Islam by demonstrating the superiority and exclusion of all of our own! Wow dude. Way insightful.

Although I can already anticipate the responses, the reality is that the majority of people living in the Arab world ARE NOT islamic extremists. The article was simply arguing that if America/Coalition wishes to appeal to those people living in the arab world (note, you people made it a religious issue, not the writer) with the ideals of free speech and democracy, it might be an idea to stop our media outlets continually creating a picture of radicalism and dehumanisation of their own people. I agree..

Boaz are you really God incarnate's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grand dad or are you a disrepectful heretic as well as a hypocrite? Do something positive and cease this childish attack on other religions. The fact is your prejudice of other religions has blinded you, conveniently so, to the problems in the various supposed Christian churches.

You take the moral high ground when it comes to attacking other religions even if it means good moral folk get caught up in your attacks - but under it all your just a nasty person looking for someone to safely belittle. Back slappin would stop if you had the decency to speak to the failings of Christianity instead of following populist trends.

What do you think our coat of arms stand for. You and your mates are no Aussie's. Your like school-ground bullies who aren't content to say your piece and leave it. You have to taunt, stir, and taint reputations of good people. But you're a confessed vigilante thug who supposedly gets trained RAAF men to hunt down Melbourne school boys. No Christian behaviour there.

People like you do more harm to true Christianity than all us Infidels put together. You're the Christian version of the extremist Islamic fundmentalist naysayer. You mine your Bible for permissions to do unChristian things. All criticism is explained away as the others failing when it is plan as the nose on your face that you are a troubled and addicted person. Do something positive with your talent. And for Christ's sake stop using the Bible to back up your petty, mean-spirited prejudices. You can't escape Paul Letter to the Roman's (12:21). The devil couldn't do a better job.

BOAZ_David

As you know, despite your narrow views of the world, I have often defended you.

Sorry mate. I cannot do same any more.

Rancitas has said it all!

Come to the party
Cheers
Kay

Have a read of this link to bring back memories about Abu Ghraib.
http://www.brookesnews.com/062602mediabughraib.html
did not think for one minute this article was edited by those lovely Arabs we hear so much about.

Kalweb you didn't invite Rancitas! Damn. I wonder why? I have blonde hair and a blue eye. I am feeling a bit dry. F*ck methinks I might cry. An Infidel and a Pagan at a Christian function. I'd come but Boaz might pummel be with his truncheon. But we are a multicultural nation. No matter what they say. So I think I would have stayed away. Rather than go out and kiss arse. I guess that is why I am Rancitas.

Gee. I wish I could think of and absurd little doggeral ditty for you Kay Webster to make your blues go away, but I can't think of anything to say. (Discovering Boaz is the devil incarnate must really weigh heavily on you old mate).

All- I only know two words of Latin (inter-alia) and I only use those to impress you All-.

Anyone can go through texts or history and select negatives to further their own position. Christian nations are as bad as any other. Christians are the driving force behind the US military which is costing lives now through its funding the warmachine.
The Liberal's blind eye to payoffs to Saddam Hussien has contributed to the loss of more than two thousand US soldiers lives and over 100,000 civilians. The Christians blind eye to nuclear renewal and the massive negative resource wastage that costs this earth dearly is a crime against humanity that pales into insignificance compared to that of others. So you can see that it shieets me to tears when people take the moral highground whilst contributing to the problem.

Just remember it was the cops and soldiers that nailed Christ in the air. War drags us into darkness. (Colossians 1 10-13).

rancitas, to misquote a line from a film you may have enjoyed

"He's not the devil incarnate, he's just a very naughty boy."

Lately posts by the regular muslim bashers are starting to make Islam look good (not in the market for a god myself though). The five pillars sounds like a much fairer deal that the stacked deck which guarantees we will all fail being pushed by BD, coach and crew. Polygamy sounds good compared to being declared an adulterer for looking (and BD tells us we all do look and he's probably right about that). Not so fond on the modesty thing for women though, BD might not approve of topless women but does not seem to want everything covered up (a mark against Islam).

I'm getting concerned about numbats obsession with boys bottoms, he seems to like finding ways of talking about them in his posts lately - not sure if thats a christain thing or just numbats pet issue at the moment but it does not help his cause, sad really he can be quite likable when he forsakes flaming and talks about his own stuff.

Methinks this mob would fit in pretty well with those that Jesus supposedly blasted. No reports of Jesus ducking down to any Roman temples to give the Romans "what for" regarding their pagan beliefs, rather we read of him getting stuck into those who misrepresented his dads religion. I doubt that many of the Pharacies got the message either.

I always get very suspicious of any salesman that focusses most of their effort on telling me how bad the competition is - normally a dead giveaway that I don't need either product or that if I really want the one I'd better talk to the competition.

R0bert

This is the cost of war- www.costofwar.co