Western civilization is the best anyone has come up with. Political and religious freedom can only really be found with us. Only Christian civilization has successfully applied reason to the natural world with science, to commerce with capitalism, to social relations in the democratic constitutions we have, and political equality of all men and women, races and religions. All with the moral capital created by the love of Christ throughout the centuries. For example the monastic orders that became the universities, capitalism, and refuge of the learning of the ancient world against barbarian invasions.

Don’t be hoodwinked by those who want to tear down legitimate authority, they either wish to replace it with themselves or have nothing to replace them with at all. The moral authority they claim is an affront to their own moral vacuity.

What passes for secularism today is a perverted kind I think. I'm agreeing with Craig Blanch here I think. It is supposed to be a twin pillar with the Church supporting our society. Without the Church the edifice comes down. We see that today with the crisis facing the West, with Islam filling the religious void.

I think history will see Islam as a mere tool that roused a sleeping world. Much needed because secular humanism is a death loving creed (Humanism:The Death of Western Civilisation John Carroll LaTrobe Uni), and while we have no desire to carry Christ's yoke it seems it will take a death loving religion to break its spell.

Anomie, not quite sure what ian Paisley means by the whore of babylon but I meant the casino.

I referred to Trinity College, Dublin as an example of pernicious sectarianism that had successfully kept the majority of locals out of university education for quite along time at least 400 years until past 1980. I have no problem with the fact that Redmond Barrie quietly set up the Victorian legal and education system to mimic that in Ireland. I am glad that Australian universities were set up without that sectarian bias, in part, as a reaction to conditions in Ireland.

I was trying to say that the prime minister's use of wedge politics to inflame fear and hatred of ethnic groups to win elections has highlighted the differences between all of us and made us more sectarian than we were 20 years ago.

PS Dan O'Connell was protestant - that's just to stir you.

Gecko said “Christianity” has so much to answer for”

If you had said “Christendom” or.. ‘The historical manifestations of the Church at various periods
-all ok.
BUT
saying as you did, is in fact outright vilification of a faith. You have not defined ‘Christianity’ you have just crucified it in a similar manner to how the Jewish Sandhedrin crucified Jesus. i.e. it was a frame up.

Now that you have made this statement. I challenge you to back it up as follows:

1/ Show me the section in the New Testament which justifies your statement ? Note.. NEW Testament on which Christianity is based, in that it interprets and fulfills the Old. If you so much as even once drag up some obscure out of context old testament verse about ‘genocide’ I will leap through the monitor and ‘speak harsh words’ to you :)

2/ Show me from the life and words of Jesus, correctly interpreted, using historical/cultural context, that which justifies your re-crucifixion of Him and His teaching ?

You can say what you like about ‘bad Christians’ but villifying ‘Christ’ is not something which will go unchallenged.

-Forming a Secular party when 69% of Australian identify with God is an exercise in futility.

THE MAGIC OF NUMBERS amazing how specific casualties which are all pretty well recorded from various wars, suddenly become:
a) HUNDREDS of millions (when it is more like 10s over all history)
b) Christianity/RELIGION’s fault (this is pure undulterated bias, barely worthy of a response, but it has been offered re Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Stalin ALONE 20+million in just a few yrs.

SECULARISM= “no God” = ‘Make-It-Up-As-U-Go’ = Existentialism at best, Nihilism at worst.

Philosophers ...Peter Singer “cull the weak children”
Scientists..... “Lets clone people.. arrange genes, make ‘super’ people.

JESUS “I am the good shepherd, I lay down my life for the sheep” “I came not to call the righteous, but the unrighteous” (and that, if I’m not mistaken would be pretty much ALL of us)
“I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness”

Christianity Versus Islam

[Posted by coach, Wednesday, 25 January 2006 2:27:04 PM]

The Australian New Muslim Association has challenged Dr Peter Barnes* to a series of three debates at Bankstown Town Hall (Sydney)

The dates and topics are:

1. Friday 18 Feb - The Word of God: the Bible or the Qur’an?
2. Saturday 19 Feb - God’s man: Jesus or Mohammad?
3. Friday 24 Feb - Salvation: Grace in Christ or the five pillars of Islam?

There will be both Christian and Islamic bookstalls, and we are hoping that there will be supper afterwards. The cost will probably be about $5.

All meetings start at 7.00 p.m.

There will be opportunity for questions.

Please pray for this, and support it if you possibly can.

*Dr Peter Barnes, pebarnes@ezylink.net.au is a minister at the Bankstown Presbyterian Church, lecturer in Church history at the Presbyterian Theological Centre and member of the Historical Records and Library Committee of the NSW General Assembly

Those that believe "secular" means no belief in God or divine principles of law [religion] have not defined the term correctly.

Secular and religious (spiritual) are not antonymns; they are coexistents of each other. Secular refers to natural needs of the body and religion the spiritual needs of the mind and soul. Singing a rousing National anthem isn't a secular need: but supplying water to drink is a secular need.

An atheistic State is not a new idea the Communists and atheistic Socialists have tried its introduction since Federation. Secular is being assumed as another term for atheism. It's just another form of totalitarian atheistic doctrine. It is not a new policy it just the same old Communist policy dressed up under another Party name.

Note his idea of removing funding from a large population that prefer to educate their children in private and religious schools - reeks of another form childhood indoctrination by atheists in an endeavour to remove the spiritual needs of children.

Quote, "A group of rationalists and humanists from Sydney and Melbourne .. think that forming a new political party might actually be the only way to get going the kind of debate that is needed in Australia. .. The original idea of secularism was the separation of church and state. The state would remain impartial and not endorse or compel the practice of any particular religion."

THE PROPOSED CONSTITUENTS:
Quote, "70 % did not have a strong identification with religion. Yet these people do not have an effective voice. No existing party is willing to risk the possible displeasure of religious voters. Hence the need for a new party, the Secular Party of Australia. The key objective of the party, as we see it, is to achieve a true separation of church and state in Australia."

Note the subtle agenda here by the constant brainwashing that secular people are distinct from religious people and have the answer to the world's ills. History has proven that power in the hands of atheists is just as immoral and ruthless as any other world-view

can I suggest that you broaden the debate.

Why not include an atheist, or someone who can argue the irrationality of all mediaeval belief systems, including islam and christianity?

Or would this be too much of a challenge?