"The biggest mistake Christianity has made is to identify itself as one of the world’s religions when it is in fact the end of all religious thinking. "

"This article argues that only the secularists are holders of the truth a position that, historically, has been found to be far from the truth."

Brilliant! Thanks Sells.

I like the idea - especially only funding secular schools. However I think Gecko made a good point. It is unlikely that a new party that is basically anti-religion will succeed and will have the unfortunate effect of providing those in government a mandate for their more extreme religious viewpoints. I think it will only make things worse. Ther might be room in the Senate though for a loud secular voice.

Sells claims that Jesus brings “the end of all religious thinking”? Explain how this is so? Most understand religion as that defined in just about every dictionary in the world –

> Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe and a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
> The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
> A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

Sells, please explain how this doesn’t fit with your view of Jesus? Or is this the new Sells spirituality?

As to the outcomes of secularism – the excesses of totalitarian regimes had nothing to do with rejecting religion/Jesus but with enforcing a non-democratic process on people.

Why would a secularist democracy fail/devolve into a despotic regime? Is it that, as Sells claim, Jesus is the source of “universal moral principles such as compassion, honesty, freedom and justice”. Sells, please outline why this is so?

Is it true that principals were formed pre-Jesus? Consider values held by ancient Greece. Those held in American Indian civilisation. Or the peaceful tribes of South America. Is it because they differ in some aspects to ours that they aren’t the ‘pinnacle’ we hold Western values to be?

The constant claim the ‘West knows best’ is bewildering, ignoring the fact that there are ongoing investigations into corruption in government and crimes committed by politicians and community ‘leaders’ (i.e. businessmen/women) world-wide. Yet these same people come from the supposed Western pinnacle of ethics and values. Oh, that’s right – they don’t really follow Jesus.

This is not bagging the West – the West has some good principles. But how can anyone claim the West holds ‘the’ standard? Would anyone disagree the West has a family values issue right now? Consider the SE Asian community model of looking after the elderly and maintaining a family unit is a worthy model, which has been around for thousands of years with no religious influence.

More later... let the debate begin

I welcome this new political party into the scene although I doubt it will get my vote.
From the article it appears the party is advocating a religionless society rather than just a secular society. And it seems to imply that basing (political) opinions on religious beliefs is somehow wrong.
The fact is anyone's opinions are based on their beliefs, religious or otherwise. And beliefs are based on many factors, including subjective experience, education, influence of parents, peers or other influentials, etc. So just because a belief is religious in nature does not mean it is somehow invalid, as it comes from the same factors that a non-religious belief comes from.
Furthermore, this idea that religion causes problems is very sweeping and should be scrutinised. Take war for example. It is evident that conflict and war are caused by disagreement, ie differences in values, ideals, beliefs, or whatever. Hell, I used to fight my sister over who should have the remote control even when we both wanted to watch Neighbours.
The fact that there were and are religious wars is only due to the differences between the beliefs. That they are religious beliefs doesn't matter, except perhaps when considering the ferocity and passion with which they are fought (because people tend to hold their religious (and anti-religious) views very close to heart and are willing to fight for them).
But not all wars are over religious beliefs, especially in the century just past.

Our democratic system is constructed so that policy and laws are based on the opinions of the population. And underlying these opinions are the subjective experiences of each and every person. If the major opinion has religious roots then i'm afraid that is what will come through in policy. If the census truly reveals that we have a non-religious majority then maybe this new party will gain large support and do quite well. However if you want to eliminate religious based opinions totally from politics then i'm quite sure that it will take a system other than democracy to do it.

It seems to me that these 3 related essays provide an Illuminated understanding of origins & consequences of the religious (so called) vs secular culture wars.

There Is NO Face Within the Sky 1. www.dabase.net/noface.htm

Space-Time IS Love-Bliss 2. www.dabase.net/spacetim.htm

Christ=MC2 3. www.dabase.net/christmc2.htm

Sells if "jesus" is the end of thinking, how come we have had 2000 years of "theological" (thinking) explanation of "jesus". There is more "jesus" propaganda flooding the planet than at any time in history.
And the world is becoming more insane by the minute!

We live in a time when all the scriptures of the Great Tradition of Humankind are freely available on the internet and because of this I would suggest that Sells has not even begun to think yet. His writings are all limited by the dimwitted provincialism of his inherited entirely exoteric protestant christian "mind".

See The Religious Conscious of Western Man is Trapped at:

4. www.dabase.net/proofch6.htm

Sells and others tell us that the slaughters of the 20th century were all created by secularism. That is partially true and mostly wrong. A gross simplification.

What about the 100's of miilions of slaughters done in the name of "jesus" prior to the 20th century? Much of Europe was devastated by the catholic vs protestant "religious" wars of the reformation counter-reformation decades. Centuries even. How many millions wre slaughtered then. And look at the "religious" slaughters done by catholic Croats and orthodox Serbs in recent times.

And lets not forget that "christian" America is by far the largest maker, owner, seller and user of weapons of all kinds including WMD's. And that "god's" man is in the Whitehouse bringing "freedom" and "jesus" to the rest of the world.

This essay provides a very sobering analysis of the state of the world body politic.

5. www.dabase.net/coop+tol.htm

It doesn't matter what new Party is formed, the Big MacBank CEOs will rule the land. They already have the Democrats in their hip pocket over SEQueensland profitability.

I propose we cut out the middle men and we vote directly for the real power in Australia. We vote for CEOs. If, compared to CEO salaries of up to a million dollars a day for doing SFA, Our politicians are on $300k a year, then we are obviously paying peanuts and getting monkeys.

We could have Max the axe as PM, Jamie 'you don't think this is a democracy' Packer as Treasurer. We could even get Bob the Builder back in the act as minister for Baritones. He's practically a Bank CEO anyway.

But let's have no doubt, Mandy Vanstone stays as immigration minister. How else could you overpopulate and ruin a perfectly nice country without her.

We could be the most secular nation on the planet, at least since Nazi Germany.

Oh ... We are already?