Boaz - you are indeed a blind product of our western culture. Breasts in many other cultures are not seen as titillation for the exclusive enjoyment of men. And equating penises with breasts is just absurd. Suggest Anatomy 101.

As for public spaces - they have never been private. While I have no doubt that I have been oggled many a time on a beach, the only time it was a problem was when some male decided my simple presence on a beach was sufficient invitation for him to try and chat me up. Again male sexual response is male responsibility. Perhaps Boaz would like all women to don burkas at the beach - unless we're breast feeding of course.

Coraliz - agree with your points regards surveillence. However I do have a problem with people who are offended by the sight of breasts - they are not remotely aggressive, whereas a man waggling his penis in public is threatening - possibility he may rape.

What was the point of this thread anyway?

We have never developed ettiquette rules for the use of mobile phones. One consequence of that is that many believe that *nothing* is inappropriate when using them.

That said, there have been moves to legislate to create criminal offences for the kind of use you describe.

Curiously, though we have *never* had a right to privacy, let alone privacy in public, many people *feel* that such a right exists. Much righteous indignation follows. Indignation that has no legal basis, but is widely considered to be morally sound. While we do not live in the USA, with so much of US culture on display in our public media, it is easy to understand how so many come to mistake their cultural norms for ours.

Unless and until we return to respecting each other in our public actitivies, we're going to continue down the path of increasingly invasive laws. Laws imposed upon us by politicians - who have shown plenty of eagerness to regulate - largely for their own political purposes.

We get what we accept. At the moment, we accept too much.

Scout here I go off topic even further.
I suspect that you are doing some of what BD is doing when you equate nude males to rapists (assuming we are still talking about beaches and not state schools).

It really does not take that long to get a pair of swimmers off so I don't get the tie between someone getting ready for a skinny dip and rape. I've not seen any research on the topic but I suspect that a significant proportion of men will when they get a quiet place to have a swim with no one around to get offended go for the skinny dip. It is a pleasant way to swim if there are not to many bities in the water and it can be somewhat liberating.

In most cases the law does not allow that freedom in public places. Maybe the law is saving a lot of guys from skin cancer in places where we really don't want it and keeping that "size does matter" topic away from the public eye.

Few of us are free to do entirely as we wish in public places, we are constrained socially and legally to respect some of the sensibilities of others around us.

Cheers
R0bert

R0bert

Suggest you reread BD's post - he was suggesting that women should not be upset at men 'flashing' themselves - completely different context to that of a 'nude' beach.

There is only one reason why a male would choose to 'flash' and believe me it is very threatening indeed!

As for nude - no problem in appropriate context.

I query why you made your comment at all. How would you feel if a male 'flashed' at your daughter? Do you think this type of behaviour is acceptable?

Are you just trying to bait me? I would've thought you could tell the difference between nudity and unwanted sexual behaviour.

Very disappointed with your post R0bert - expected better of you.

Scout, I clearly didn't read the same context into "flashed" as you did hence the different viewpoint. I read it in terms of BD's general objection to topless women (other than breast feeding ones)on the beach and his suggestion of double standards about exposure. I read BD's "flashed" as visible rather than a quick open of the raincoat.

I recall reading of an incident on a Queensland beach some years ago where male nude sunbathers were arrested while female nude sunbathers were left alone reportedly because the offending bits are more visible on males. I have read elsewhere that the relevant legislation in Qld only applies to males but can't confirm this.

Sorry that I misunderstood your meaning and intent. I have no intention of trying to bait you, you are one of my favourite posters on this site and someone who's contributions I value greatly.

To me the equation between male nudity and rapists (in the beach context) sounds kind of like the logic of those who suggest that women who dress "immodestly" are asking for rape and some similarity to the extremist parts of feminism that push the "all men are rapists" stuff. That surprised me coming from you and I'm sorry I got it wrong. So easy to misunderstand someone elses context.

Definite reason for serious concern about guys exposing themselves to target individuals just as a woman "flashing" her breasts at a group of school boys is a different issue to a woman sunbathing topless at the beach.

I'm out of this thread now till tomorrow.

Have a great day.
R0bert

R0bert

A big heart felt thanks.

I agree with you re: double standards in nudity - OK for women but not for men - completely absurd. However I'm not convinced that that is what BD meant - he has very primitive ideas about women.

Anyway, speaking of views (kind of), today in Melbourne is absolutely beautiful. My computer is underneath a window and I have been watching rosellas and rainbow lorikeets in the fronds of my treeferns - magic.

Dianne