Thanks Scout. It’s good to see there are others who realize that we are all world citizens.

Keith, have you actually researched what happened in the 2000 and 2004 US presidential elections?

Are you aware of how the US electoral system works and how it is administrated?

The US is the only democracy in the first world where partisan officials are in charge of administering the vote. Unlike in most democracies where voter enrolment and registration are carried out by independent officials, each US state and county appoints their own officials along partisan lines.

The problems in Florida 2000 are widely known and the problems in Ohio 2004 are also widely acknowledged. Both were key states that needed to go to Bush to ensure victory and both had republican controlled electoral officials and both generated claims of vote rigging and massive disenfranchising of voters. In Ohio for example;
“Independent observers, including the FEI Delegation, were denied access to all polling locations and vote tabulation centers throughout the state, and were required to remain 100 feet from polling locations”. http://www.fairelection.us/fairelectionreport.pdf

There are hundreds and hundreds of other documented reports about irregularities and results where the discrepancy between exit polls and the final result in many counties was so large as to be declared a statistical impossibility!

I could post a few hundred links here for evidence Keith if you want. But it’s probably better if you just Google “Bush+Florida+fair” or “Bush+Ohio+Fair” and do your own research. Then come back and see if you can’t construct a reasonable argument here instead of making sweeping generalizations on a subject that you are so obviously ill-informed.

Thanks Taiwan Teacher, I was getting to that. That was one of the reasons I said to Plantagenet that he needs to research a bit more history.

Keith,

No, Iraq does not fit that bill because there were no WMD. The only person to claim this was George Hormis. Considering he told this to Sesn Hannity (a neoconservative shock-jock) on Fox News of all media sources, I’d be seriously questioning it. Give me a link not related to Fox or the “Religious Right” and I’ll give it a bit more credibility.

Fox News Corp, the Religious Right and the Republicans are all in each other’s pockets, so telling me this is like me quoting Bob Brown or providing a link to Green Lefty Weekly – not a shred of credibility. Also, try Googling it, these virtually nothing on it, just a few links to his unsubstantiated claim. How about the UN inspect Syria and we’ll find out.

As for Electoral fraud in the US, well, this isn’t something that’s disputed, it’s common knowledge in America so I’m surprised you could refute my claim. To say that Bush was “freely elected” is just dead wrong. A Google search for US+election+fraud gives 11, 400, 000 search results (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=us%2Belection%2Bfraud+&btnG=Search&meta=). Even Wikipedia talkes about it in depth…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_controversies_and_irregularities. So considering the rigging and the narrowness of both Bush’s wins, Gore and Kerry should have won both times. Show me a link that refutes this.

The problem I have with sanctions is that the leader of Iran would simply starve his own people. In Iraq, over 500, 000 people died because of sanctions yet Saddam was livin’ it up.

Plantagenet, getting to you…

Jinxy - don't bother - Save it till the next OLO article on Iran.

I'm moving on.

Taiwan - if the mantra solution of the left is:

"The current dilemma vis-à-vis Iran that we, the poor citizens of the world, find ourselves in today is a direct result of the failed geopolitical strategies for hegemony from the US over resources and trade. Anyone who argues otherwise should, as you yourself so wisely pointed out Plantegent, “read some history”."
Then your're on your own Taiwan.

Taiwan - You can put up some good arguments but in the end you are too bloody minded.

Keith - you'll note leftist prejudices can't be altered. Thats why most Western countries have shifted a way from a Leftist mindset.

This string has gone sour.

Bye - until other articles.

Pete

Plantagenet,

Well since I’ve typed it out MS Word I’ll post it anyway…

- Faked Bin Laden tape: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html

If you don’t want to read it all, then the basic point is that the fake Bin Laden in the tape: -

1) Doesn’t look anything like Bin Laden;
2) Is wearing a gold ring (forbidden by Islamic law)
3) Can be seen writing with his Right-hand (according to the FBI’s website, Bin Laden is left handed… http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terrorists/terbinladen.htm)

There’s a lot more though if you want to read it all. So again, why did they need to fake this?

- Suspicious picture of the 19 hijackers: http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

US DEMORCRACY

Well, I think Taiwan Teach and I have demonstrated that it’s dwindling (check the links I’ve provided to Keith). But aside from electoral fraud, you’ve got the Patriot Act. This is a sick piece of legislation that has everyone on both sides of the political spectrum up-in-arms.

What about the arrest of Cindy Sheenan for doing nothing more but wearing an anti-war T-shirt? Not very democratic…
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/

OIL

I don’t think that oil is the entire motive. But I think it’s fair to assume that it plays a part considering: -

1) North Korea has been ignored;
2) There are many evil dictators that aren’t being attacked;
2) Dick Cheney was the CEO of Haliburton. Haliburton is an oil drilling company with very big interests in the Iraq war. Haliburton’s stock has risen $78 million since the start of the war.

I think you’re capable of Googling all of this. The search results are plentiful so take your pick.

Keith,

Looks like Thermistocles hadn’t said it all afterwards I’d take Thermistocles on in a debate any day. Like Taiwan Teacher you appear to be very ill-informed on this topic.

Well said Jinx, however i hope that's a typo about me being ill informed!

Plantagant, how can you read that quote as being either a mantra or a solution? ? ? ?

How am i "too bloody minded"? I only tried to answer a question posed by you that you seemed unable, or unwilling, to answer yourself?

And i just loved this sentence, it's a beauty! "you'll note leftist prejudices can't be altered."

Perhaps it's because those pesky lefties are able to reason and debate? Look, if you can back up your opinion with a cohesive argument and solid facts, then you have a worthwhile argument to add to the debate. If however you can only make broad statements and generalisations, then when they are challenged, you cannot come up with any facts or evidence, then your just regurgitating some else's opinion. So who you been listening to Planetagent and Keithy? Rush Limbaugh?

"This string has gone sour."

Yes, just like the foxes grapes i fear!

Jinxy

Thanks for you last post. It is succinct and to the point.

Looking at the evidence you present - it seems possible some of the "bin Laden" tapes were faked. Whether some were faked by intelligence agencies from the US, Israel, Pakistan, Middle Eastern countries or by other terrorist groups is an open question.

Taiwan Teacher as you are a comic I give you a relevant funny (for the bitter Left).

Dear Cindy:

My cat just jumped off the couch and collapsed...now she is walking, but slowly. She is only about 8 months old. I'm wondering if she ate one of the weird little bugs around our house. Nothing appears to be wrong with her legs.

Feeble Feline in Fresno

Dear Feeble:

At least your cat can eat. Did you know that most Iraqis have nothing at all to eat? They are trapped in their tee pees, unable to milk their goats or go to the Quick Chek, because American death rains on them from the sky. They would probably be happy to have some of your disease-addled bugs. I hope your cat dies.

http://potfry.blogspot.com/