Population is one variable that shouldn't be considered in isolation from others. Namely, people who insist on lovely, lush green lawns, people who 'need' hour-long showers twice a day, and then... livestock! Over 1 third of the nation's fresh water is spent on raising cows and other water-draining animals. We raise plants, then feed them to cattle, then eat the cattle. Why not cut out the middle-man? I, for one, don't eat meat, or have long showers, and my grass is dead. So if you're talking about numbers (population), you can count me out.

Tom Gosling:

After trying to digest the impact of his depressing views on Immigration, water shortages, unsustainable growth etc poor Tom evidently misses the mark by a freight train ? Thankfully, there are more optimists in Oz viz:

Most of his arguments are taken from research that are outdated - worst preliminary discussion papers that have not reached conclusions. The PC Report ( Jan 2006 ) scheduled it's final assessment Apr 2006. Caution is ALWAYS advised when interpreting and extrapolating modelling analysis .

The ABS Data advises Airport new arrivals must be balanced with departures. The nett gain to long term resident status is tricky ? As for delving in Economics, the 700 words severly limits the scope of exploiting macro/micro strategies, Industrial relations. Trade policy. GATT. US/Aust free trade agreement. GLOBALISATION.

As for ending migration just because of insufficient water in Capitol cities, the call is as myopic as the ' piece de resistance ' population explosion !!

Fortress Australia mentality went out with John Curtin. FA has never been a viable option. ADF torpedoed the concept after WWII. With a population of 20.2 M, we rigidly bind ourselves in the Anzac Treaty, SEATO, and anything in between. Without conscription there is no conceivable way ADF could function, much less afford Iraq, Afghanistan, Solomon, Sudan, Sinai etc. With an ageing population, burnout servicemen, mass resignations, we are flat out recruiting kiddies to serve in the Reserve and Cadets ? Who will repel the ' yellow hordes '- Dad's Army ?

In the real world of supply and demand, limiting growth stifles demand and suffocates investment. As the Nation ages and more opt for early retirement, where are funds to finance infrastructure, welfare etc Less tax in the coffers - a prelude to stagnation, inflation, ruination. Recipe for Third World Status coming up > Dont bet on it.

The water crisis is a hoax-spin to raise revenue and line the pockets of Government and Council's. For decades, water municipalities have bungled, mismanaged, squandered resources. They have only just kept Dams functioning - the toll for repairs, cracked

continued..

"Water is the gift of God, beer and whisky are concoctions of the devil". Furphy, from Tasmania, engraved this in Pitman's shorthand on his water tanks about a century ago. Fairly spartan sentiments, but more appropriate than Tubley's plea on behalf of vegetarianism as the solution to all problems arising from ever-increasing human numbers.
More Brazilian rainforest is currently being cleared for Soya-bean than for meat prouction. In South-east Asia pressure for forest clearing is being lead by the drive for palm oil production. And in Australia the scale of broad-acre clearing of native vegetation, to complete and final minimisation of natural biodiversity, has had more to do with grain and cotton production than with "water draining animals", no matter the extent of their guilt.
"One third of the nation's fresh water" is spent on raising such animals? I doubt it! On the very edge of Australia's eastern coastal margin, rainfall equates to evaporation on exposed surfaces. But, for most of our agricultural land, rainfall is about one third of such evaporation rates; and, for most of Australia, it is about one twentieth.
In fresh water consumption rates, evaporation, not animals, is king - regardless of how careful we are in husbanding the water we harvest for agricultural prodction of any sort. It deserves recognition, as do the needs of the biota endemic to our landscapes and estuaries.
"Population - - shouldn't be considered in isolation from others". What a twist in logic: It is not "just one variable" - it is impossible to be honestly isolated from any debate dealing with society's needs. Our present numbers over-consume available water in the cities. Those in the cities also pressure agriculture to stretch water-resources beyond availability in providing them with food, clothing, and revenue from exports. "Not talking about numbers" is, at best, a default position calling for greater efficiency in the manner of continuing efforts to screw the country.

and leaking walls are a closely guarded secret. The public are kept in the dark where flood modelling in a 1:100 event reveal how whole townships downstream, would be inundated, with possible loss of life ! Water loss to evaporation, seepage and maintaining the eco-sys (fish/eel population) account for cost's slated to the too hard basket. Council's leakage rates in suburbia are as high as 30 % yet, little priority is spent on refurbishing antiquated pipes/pumps/fittings or tracing leaks.

Added migration - boosts Economic development, vocation and higher Education, skill levels, R&D, foreign investment, health, defence, industry etc even Philantrophy !

In an expanding Economy we need a growing population to manage, develop and service this Nation. It is one of the Fed's major goals. In the past decade, migrants have had higher levels of Education and qualifications (ABS) Levels have increased with successive waves of immigration. Having a skilled work force enhances living standards, broadens Community expectations, fosters competitiveness, creates independence.

In the short term, it is unlikely they will ever be a burden on the taxpayer. Professional's some, they earn more, live in better housing,send their children to Private schools - to repeat the cycle. Their contribution overall fuels the Economy, creates jobs, investment and value added. If anything they bring wealth, innovation and expertise - the blueprint that built US's and Canada's colossal $12 trillion, $ 1.07 trillion economy's - both significant subscribers to migrant intake !

Here at home, we rely too heavily on our Primary Commodities for survival. Minerals to China and Japan. Where prices fluctuate and exchange rates surge, our standard of living suffers. Globally, a minnow - we have a weak manufacturing sector - depending on the whims of Foreign Investment - which incidently is driven, mostly by exmigrants with International connections ! Our Imports exceed our exports and short sighted Business leaders prefer to buy overseas when once we manufactured in Oz. Shifting Companies off shore at the expense of local labour markets exacerbates the growing problem. In a nutshell, we are living beyond our means.

Cheers

Looking at Dalma's argument for higher immigration leads to one conclusion - high immigration is for the greedy. Immigration for greed is bound to have consequences on society as a whole. The U.S may have a robust economy yet it is one hell of a tough place to live. One cannot deny the social problems that exist in the U.S, and should not be duplicated here with irresponsible immigration policy.

Brazil is built on immigration, has a large economy, and is a dysfunctional society all in one. Japan has a robust economy, and one that is not built on immigration. So, we are being fed a load of bs it seems.

If water is not an issue, how come large cities don't exist in central Australia?

Dilma,

Having an outsourced/immigrated skilled work force enhances living standards only for migrants who do not assimilate except in lip service, broadens Community expectations for migrants but not Australians in whom their elected leaders lose interest, fosters competitiveness that leads to race riots on Cronulla beach, congestion in all services and gridlocked roads, creates independence for Politicians who at liberty to keep increasing migrant intakes till they can hear the back of the Australian people break.

Problem is Dilma, ALL migrants will come to Sydney and Brisbane as first choice and to a lesser extent the other capitals. No self respecting migrant will get stuck out in the boondocks, on the wrong side of the tracks. Life isn't like that. So what we have is a situation where Australia is effectively FULL UP now. The back has already broken over riots and desal debacles and the only reason John Howard can't hear it is because he must be senile or deaf.

What John Howard must do is put a 5 year moratorium on immigration until we can evaluate the REAL benefits of migrant intake to ALL Australians and remove HECS fees on all higher education that leads to SKILL upgrades for Aussy citizens. Minorities like yourself just want to ride average Australian's backs like sheep, crying "tally Ho, its good fer ya", all the way to the kill room. You must find out and probably the hard way that immigration has done a good job but has run its course. Investors who do not heed the warning signs, like tunnel funnel CEOs for example will find the Australian people have ways of putting the monkey in their wrench, the fly in their profit shares, the Big Mac in their big macbanks and the Kerry Packer up their rich versus poor gap.