Robert wrote:

Nothing in the current system compels mothers to end up with the bulk of residency other than a choice by the father not to be involved in residency.

unquote:

Robert, take another look. Perhaps read a few judgements, they are available to read on the Federal Magistrates and Family Court website.

Parenting is defined as the time spent WITH the children, not the time spent acting in the best interesting of the children.

If a man works long hours to support his wife and children, and due to this he doesn't see his children as much as he likes then his 'parenting' is discounted. It is only the comparative hours actually spent with the children that matter when residence and access is taken into account.

In many ways this appears to be 'fair' to the children as the father is a distant stranger. In my case my father worked two jobs and long hours to maintain a good standard of living for us. He did this out of love for us. But it was only the unfortunate death of my mother when I was 10 that lead to an opportunity for me to get to know my father, and I am now almost 50, and still trying to catch up on those lost years of estrangement whilst he actually lived with us.

The difficulties facing a 'family' when it breaks up with the mother wanting to repartner and desiring nothing to do with the father, except for child support, must magify this exponentially

So, if men work long hours to be a good provider, then they are not 'good parents' and miss out. If they don't devote themselves to the lifestyle that their spouse wants and spends more time with the kids, they are criticised for not being good providers.

Once again: Men, what price parenthood?

“Welll...I've said it in just about every other place so I'll say it again here.. YES.. HAVE MORE BABIES :)”, writes BOAZ_David on 14/2.

Yes….. often repeated!

But why??

“-Reeeediscover the joy of family....”

Well, gee, you don’t have to have more kids to discover that. Just have the number that you were going to have.

“-Discover if you have never done it the freedom and independance of working from home”

Um what? Freedom and independence is a lot more closely related to having NO kids and it is to being ‘tied down’ by a family. And it is more closely related to having one than it is to having two, and so on. Who wants to work from home? Crikey, you live there - surely you want to spend your working day somewhere else?

“-Contribute to our national well being and reduce the need for bringing in migrants, many of whom have questionable settlement and compatability issues.”

Excuse me, but having more kids is not contributing to our national wellbeing. And it is not about to lead to a reduction in immigration. Why would David think it would? If he is worried about ‘questionable compatibility issues’, why doesn’t he push for his sort of immigrants? Afraid of racial connotations? The immigration intake and composition is much much more malleable than the birthrate. Surely that is where he should concentrate his efforts. Raising the birthrate is a pretty long-term ‘immigration mitigation’ mechanism, that is not guaranteed of any success.

Having three kids is fine. In fact, having as many as you want is fine, for as long as the national average (~1.8) is below replacement level (~2.1).

My message is, not ‘have less babies’ but certainly ‘DON”T HAVE MORE BABIES’.

Let’s celebrate Australia’s low fertility rate, enjoy the freedom to choose whether we have none, one, two or twenty kids… and not feel any pressure to have more… and for goodness not get sucked in by that disgraceful one-payment baby bonus bribe.

“Laurie..put DOWN that stick pls :)”

Here, give it to me Laurie….. whack!! (:>)

Hamlet, I think that you have misunderstood my post.

I differentiate between the current system allowing plenty of opportunity for parents to do the wrong thing vs compelling them to do the wrong thing.

Parents who both wish to put their childrens best interests first may do so, the system does not force the 80/20 thing if both parents are willing to put the kids interests above their own. Where it fails is that it supports those who put their own interests above their kids in gaining 80/20 or worse. It does not pay attention to all the circumstances which created the situation and in some cases it assumes that the circumstances which existed during the marriage were the preference of both parties rather than sometimes one party responding to choices made by the other.

The current system does not compel unequal parenting, rather it fails to support equal parenting and equal responsibility and it rewards bad behaviour.

A broken marriage does not have to result in little involvement by the father in the kids lives if both parents are willing to put the kids first.

R0bert

Good on you Ludwig.. (or should I say EARwig ? :)

[Special note to Scout-> no mate.. this is not a deliberate 'insult' that you can add to your list of Christians sins :) its just a dig]

seems you like to sink your pinchers into me or my views at least..
well.. never mind. I'll just quickly 'jeet kun do' that stick and whack you back :) along with a long drawn out eeeeeeooooowwwwwww or something. kidding of course.

You have a rather pessemistic view of 'working from home' and an overly glorious view of working outside it mate.. consider this.

Travel 2 hours per day would be typical. thats 600 hours a year doing 'nothing'. Its hours which could be productive. Moreover it has many other 'costs'

600 hours at $30/hour = $18,000 lost potential income. (running your own home based business)

or.. 600 hours @ $15/hr doing sub contract/process type work $9000
Fuel/Travel costs $5/day ? around $5000
If you go by car there will be depreciation/wear and tear. Estimates Ive seen are around $100/week, thats $5000 odd....

Child care ? $100/week ? (dont know much about this) $5000 more lost income.

"You Live there" err.. is 'home' some kind of hell ? or pergatory ? hope not, I rather like being at my place.

In any case, we should regard such things as 'strategic' and heading towards a goal of more independance later. So, short term sacrifice even for 5 yrs is cool if it brings you to a better place in life.

It has been shown (News yesterday) that children in 'care' rather than a family environment(Study of children in Romanian orphanages)
stunts their growth and development.

I think I have a very good case actually so 'whack' back and raise you a pinch :) !

eeeeeeooooowwwwwww!! Oow that stings! But I lahhk it …….…..Feel free to do it again!

Nothing like a good vigorous debate, with a bit of humour inserted. Good no you David.

I sink my pincers into your views, on this issue only. Not into you personally. I appreciate your views, but I would appreciate them more if I understood them, which is what I seek to do.

At the moment I completely don’t understand why you want us to have more babies, let alone so vehemently.

I followed one thread of your argument under ‘Refugees – we’d like to help but…’, in which you wrote; "am I fearful of being outbred by certain groups".... A RESOUNDING YES...

Then when I sought clarification with; “Are you afraid of current Australians or white Australians being bred out or overwhelmed by faster birthrates among non-whites or immigrants?” You didn’t respond.

Was that getting too close to the truth? Who exactly is it that you want to have more babies? Sounds like it is not the whole of the Australian populace.

You overstate my simple expression on working from home. Each to their own. Many would prefer to work from home. Many wouldn’t. This is really a little side issue to the issue I raised with you – your push for more babies.

So why do you push for this?? Could you also address the three above questions. Cheers.

Ludwig, perhaps you should go live in The Netherlands. There, they proudly advertise the fact that whites are now in the minority in certain cities like Rotterdam. If you don't find that completely WEIRD then you really are a lost cause.

Personally, I'd like to see my ethnicity and culture exist well into the future. To actively seek to make yourself a minority, or even allow yourself to be dominated by another ethnic group, is suicidal to say the least. Would you like some counselling?