Opinionated,

Your suggestions are far from Christian Orthodoxy.

The prohibition against homosexual acts is much more nuanced than what you present and it extends beyond Leviticus to St Paul for example.

Christians must judge thoughts and deeds according to Christ's example. To be non-judgmental is to disapprove of nothing which is nonsense, and not loving. Christ was furious with the hypocrisy of the Religious caste, who piled heavy burdens (religious rules, judgments and regulations) on faithful Jews but did nothing to help them carry it. Christ judged their behaviour very negatively.

"How do you expect to avoid going to Hell!" He told them.

But at the same time Jesus teaches how important it is to take the log out of our own eye before we can see the speck in our brother's eye.

Hate the sin love the sinner. Sex before marriage is missing the mark - a sin i.e. self inflicted damage.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17232182%255E5001167,00.html

If you would like clarification on how to read and interpret scripture, and in what relation each book of the New Testament has to the Good News of Christ read "Dei Verbum". An inter denominational document produced by expert theologians during Vatican 2.

See Martin a Christian who already is going against Jesus' teachings.

Matthew 7:1 doesn't suit you... so you interpret Matthew 7:5 then to allow you to judge others and yet 7:1 says you shouldn't. Furthermore you then bring in Paul's teachings to justify Leviticus... Christianity = Jesus' teachings not Paul's interpretations. Please don't think I am knocking Paul but he was just a man.

Know Jesus' teachings first... then you need look no further or so I was taught.

"All sin is sin" Martin you have a dilemma. Can you judge whether you have a speck or a log in your own eye? Do that first then get back to me...Ha!

You stick to Catholicism... at times a noble denomination and I'll keep studying Jesus' words.

The word of man versus the word of Jesus Christ whose word would you choose Martin?

Hi all

Gnosys (post 12:13:25 AM 6/2/06)
A fundamentalist tries to abide by the fundamentals; a liberalist (often) denounces them by making them allegorical. What do you suggest as a 'replacement' to those views if we are to have faith in neither?
God's grace is sought. But what is His grace if it's not defined by Him? Scripture does that. What is truth? Scripture tells us. If Scripture isn't the ultimate determinator then we are indeed lost, for mankind certainly can't determine what is right for himself. When we assert our own values upon & above God's values then we fall into the dangers of Relativism (& Humanism). Isn't that why the world is so much divided now?
Interestingly, when involved in a debate on Kerri-anne KENNERLY's "Mornings" programme in May 2005, following the Macquarie Fields' Riot, it was she who suggested that "We (simply) ought to throw away the Qur'an & throw away the Bible, & just love one another." Well, I've known Kerri-anne for about 30-years, & I know George NEGUS' agenda, but I was surprised to 'witness' Rev Dr James HAIRE & Rev Bill CREWS in agreement. Meanwhile, Keysar TRAD remained silent about the proposal - he would never condescend to the destruction of the Noble Qur'an.
Is this where Christianity is heading? Are we becoming "Krishnas" or New Zealand Shark-god worshippers, prepared to accept any standard as long as it doesn't offend someone else? Christ indeed must be ashamed of us!
(6/2/06)

Martin ibn Warriq (post 4:30:57 PM 6/2/06)
Well said.
(6/2/06)

Cheers all

Then the fairies rushed out and stole all the children.
Man I hate to live in your world were a passage in a work of fiction counted as proof positive. When not a single piece of real proof demonstrates the reality of the supernatural.

"Why do people complain about enforcing doctrine in the Catholic church when it could do so much good in the protestant churches?"

Sheesh, with that kind of dictorial attitude, no wonder the Catholic
numbers have gone down, down, down, and they have to turn to less educated believers in Africa, for new followers!

What % of Australians actually bother to go to a Catholic mass each week? I'd say such a small %, that they are fast becoming irrelevent, except in their own minds.

Hi all

Opinated2 (post 3:40:15 PM 6/2/06)
Religion? That includes Humanism. If one reads Manifesto I & II then mankind is indeed 'lost'.
Jesus' teachings? He taught more than 4 disciples. Thus I wouldn't suggest that we relegate any of the other sections of the NT. Christ Himself said, ".. & the Scripture cannot be broken .." John 10:35, & Paul says "All Scripture is God-breathed & is useful for teaching .." 2 Tim 3:16. Moreover, during Christ's time on earth the NT hadn't yet been written, so Christ was referring to the OT.
The purpose of the OT should not be forgotten. It's foundational to Christianity. Without Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel & the other prophets we would have less continuity & proof of who the Messiah was/is.
Christ's had not "come to abolish the Laws of the Prophets: (but) .. to fulfil them" Matt 5:17. Jesus gave the Law full meaning. He didn't abolish the Ten Commandments. He showed that grace & love are essential. But not without holiness, righteousness or truth.
Sins are supposed to be recognised, confessed - forgiveness sought - renounced & repented of.
The meaning of judgement must be clearly considered. Are you for instance suggesting that we don't make value decisions to avoid a confrontation as described in Matt 18:15? That's surely answered within the text itself but also from 1 Cor 6 (from memory).
Surely, you can't be serious that the penalty for say lying ought to be the same as murder. James in no way intimates that. What is meant is that all sin "hurts" God equally & demeans mankind. I'd most hope that someone would tell me if I did something which, according to the Scriptures, offended God. The responsibility is then mine because God's "trumpet" has been blown. Homosexuality doesn't contribute to God's plan to populate the earth. It is about self-gratification - there goes that Tenth Commandment again.
I often wonder what Yahweh & Christ discuss in consultation. Is the rain our blessing or God crying?
"The Fred Bloggsywhatsamaycallme Ministry"? That's shameful, I agree!
6/2/06)

Cheers all