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The Forum > Article Comments > Why our greatest story is just not being told > Comments

Why our greatest story is just not being told : Comments

By Kevin Donnelly, published 30/1/2006

Kevin Donnelly argues the nation's heritage is being forgotten in history lessons.

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Nicole:

I don't enjoy 'credentialising' but I figured it was the obligation of a passionate historian to point out that history shouldn't be about 'right and wrong' and nor should it be subjected to the ideological slant of post modernism OR conservatism. In saying that I opined post modern lecturers had done more to damage the objectivity of teaching than any conservative I've come across. In fact judging by the support for Howard at the moment (even with Iraq etc) I think the mainstream Australian public is just as sick of the left as I am.

Thankyou so much for picking up my 'double t' error though-you must be one of the few teachers left in our schools capable of doing so. I noticed you did not dispute my assertion that the education system desperately needs to attract a higher calibre of teacher/ academic. Perhaps you would like the pay rise and relish a performance based appraisal.

My '12yo girl example' was merely an illustration! I was not basing my opinion that the education of children these days is lacking solely on her thinking Africa was a country. The literacy (one t :) levels have been steadily declining since KEATING introduced a raft of 'feel good' reforms that swapped the basics with flash cards and dress ups. Sure concentrate on English and Maths before history and geography-but at the moment most Kids probably think Iraq is a newly discovered planet because they can't read the papers. And it is the lefts fault-ha ha.
Posted by wre, Tuesday, 31 January 2006 5:42:03 PM
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Well done, Graham. If I were you I'd argue that publishing stuff from big Kev, Davo Flint and other well known, um, very nice people from political locations to the east, gives the left an opportunity to wail and rail and say really horrible lefty lies which are less likely to be published in the letters sections of our esteemed, ahem, objective print media.

On Kev's article, I'm a wailing, railing, horrible, lying lefty. Thanks for the belly laugh Kev.
Posted by chainsmoker, Tuesday, 31 January 2006 5:51:21 PM
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Graham, what a welcome change to your tone. Thank you.

Can you publish your stocktake (and its methodology) which show that the forum leans to the “left”? I may guess then what your criteria might have been for rejecting my articles.

Just saying, not good enough, is at the very least negligent of you, since you claim to follow the Enlightenment values.

You said: ‘That is exactly what this site is about - argument, inquiry, civility. Providing a forum … to discuss and exchange ideas. A Socratic forum, if you like… So that's my bias and my "conspiracy".’

Would civility demand a response other than not good enough?

Would a Socratic forum entertain the arbitrary whims of the convenor? And avoid transparency?

And why do you shy away from my previous post, reproduced hereunder?

“Perhaps for the sake of demonstrating your integrity you should publish every week the articles rejected and those accepted, with brief reasons. Surely not too hard to do for an online enterprise? We will be convinced then of your even-handedness. (You could include a 25 word synopsis, stipulated as a condition of submission.)

It took two weeks to have my second article rejected, only after I enquired about it. It took just 4 days or so for David Flint’s last article to get published after its first appearance in a broadsheet. Even-handedness? “

What I suggested is no more than a routine quality control procedure that would also keep you honest. Remember, power corrupts….?

Graham, my first article, probably classifiable as an ethnic’s view of our national misdemeanor over the Corby trial in Indonesia, was appreciated by quite a few, and elicited 150 comments. Given that, I have found it hard to accept that the quality of my writing could deteriorate as significantly overnight.

By contrast Flint’s article, praising Packer and self-aggrandising, only drew 9 comments, mostly unfavourable to Flint. Still you gave him more space. I’ll bet you a 4X that my article on Howard’s toadying to the Packer myth would receive a much better response.

What would Socrates say, mate?

chek
Posted by Chek, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 11:41:48 AM
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Chek, I'm afraid I don't have all day to debate the merits of your articles. And I don't think that the forum is an appropriate place to do it. National Forum produces software for programming personal sites. We have also set-up blogs for writers. If you want our help to get your material up on the web, then we'd be happy to discuss that with you.

On the point of the left-leaning nature of OLO, on this morning's postings I'd count Melluish and Moran as being on the right, Hassan and Fewtrell as being on the left, and while Darlene identifies with the left, I don't think her piece has a perspective so I won't classify it. Take the previous day and Daniel Donahoo and James Cumes would identify with the left. I have no ideas about the other three, and their articles don't appear to be ideological. Similar exercises over preceding days come up with similar results. There can't be any hard and fast rule, but I think on balance you'd have to say that OLO leans to the left judged on its contributions and contributors.

I don't think there is an issue with "keeping me honest". It's not as though OLO has a monopoly on publishing on the Internet. If my judgement proves not to be good, then readers have lots of other sites to choose from.
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 12:30:12 PM
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Chek,
As the editor of On Line Opinion I normally keep myself distanced from the Forum in terms of making comments, while still reading as many as I can. However on this occasion I shall step out from behind my invisible online persona to answer some of your criticisms.

I thought you may like to know that when it comes to article selection Graham has a very "hand's-off approach". I am responsible for the journal and select articles for publication based on a number of criteria. This includes timeliness, relevance, balance to other articles we may have published or are about to publish, quality of writing and so on. There are many variables.

Sometimes we get many articles submitted on a topic saying much the same thing, in which case some will not make it through. Other times we may get a badly written article which says something very new and interesting and so it gets published (with some effort on my part to tidy it up). I make a judgment call as I go.

In your case your recent submissions have not been up-to-scratch for one reason or another. I do not always give specific reasons because I like to be diplomatic. I do apologise for any delay in getting back to authors. We are now publishing five op-ed articles each day and apart from our trusty volunteers and tech support there is only me. I try and spot any incoming articles which are particularly time sensitive and to acknowledge authors as quickly as I can.

I am very grateful for the tremendous support we have from many people kind enough to send us their submissions. To me it shows that politics and debate is alive and well in Australia.

Cont'd
Posted by SusanP, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 3:16:26 PM
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Cont'd
In terms of my politics I am not sure you could find anyone more open to ideas from the right or left than me. If you have a good argument, well presented and interesting, I will run it. I don't care which side of the political divide you sit.

I always attempt to get opposing or different views on a topic, but as Graham has already pointed out, sometimes we get little interest. I can only offer the opportunity ...

I hope this answers your queries and criticisms.
Susan Prior
Posted by SusanP, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 3:17:42 PM
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