Well said Remco.

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Hellothere writes: “Tree clearing laws only punish those who still have trees, they aren't a problem for people who knocked them all down long ago. So people who have cared for the land are punished, and those who have exploited it to the hilt are rewarded - brilliant!”

This is largely true. But how do we get around it? Those who overcleared got away with it, as did the governments that allowed them to do so. We can’t help that. All we can do is take it from here.

But the same applies with all sorts of other things. In fact, regulations have tightened up in a myriad ways due to; bad practices, overexploitation, and an ever-increasing scale of operations (all of which overlap).

Would love to know if you have any ideas on how to undertake regulatory activities in manner that is fair to all, and does not disadvantage current operators compared to past operators. Of course, it can’t be done. So we will just have to live with the reality that our forebears have made life a lot harder for us through their actions.

Yes, that’s where the blame lies, not with current governments and environmentalists, as Vinny subtly suggests

1. There is no one walking off the land and leaving it fallow. In other words, there is NO need for any concessions to keep the farmers in business.

2. There is no dispute on this - too much land is farmed in Australia.

3. Combine 1 and 2 and what follows is that assistance, concessions and favours (and I include special assistance to telecommunications, education, health etc) could be reduced to the rural sector to help stop the rot on the land. In other words, as for the rest of the country, if you dont like it, move on. Sell your land and retrain (or retire) like the rest of us who have to battle to live.

Those who remain, who buy out will live very well and can afford to pay the extra to attract health, education etc services (and again, if you cant, sell out to your neighbour).

Favours and concessions only serve to do one thing, to raise the price of rural land, to push the marginal land out further, and ipso facto, damage more land.

Australian stand for a fair go. But it seems the rural community wish to be seen as more equal than others.

Remco:
"1. There is no one walking off the land and leaving it fallow..."
An assumption made to back up an argument and then quoted as fact does not make it so. It does nothing more than make me question the validity of your posts. Even a cursory examination of the rural sector would make even you question what you put forward.

Why put forward inflammatory, and non-researched conjecture to make your point? If your aim is to convince others of the necessity of stripping farmers of assistance then, I guess, lies will convince the gullible and lazy.

Convenient ad-libbing makes a good story but an irrelevant point.

“2. There is no dispute on this - too much land is farmed in Australia.” I would imagine there would be people who would dispute that point. Unsustainable practices perhaps but as for too much, I think there would be those that could argue a case one way or the other.

“…like the rest of us who have to battle to live.” You assume that there are no farmers in need and, like so many others, find them easy prey to attack with impunity.

The ecological payback from farming that Ludwig puts forward has to be borne by everyone that has benefited from its past practices. For much of colonial history, Australia prospered economically, to a large extent, because of it. Now it is time to pay the fiddler and now, of course, it is all the farmer’s fault so they should be stripped of assistance and denounced as evildoers. Cheap shot, Remco and too many others.

“Australian stand for a fair go.” What the ….!

It seems in most aspects of life people cling to the past methods, no matter what the evidence is of their success or failure. Since this land was introduced to European agriculture we have had nothing but growing environmental trouble. All the evidence shows us that the methods we have imported are not conducive to this approach.

The only solution is to step into the future and use agricultural and farming methods that are harmonious with this type of climate and environment. To do this we have to change our type of stock and what we grow on large scales. Utilising native stock solves most problems as would the propagation of native plants and flora for fuels and alternative products.

This approach would open up new markets that would have little if no competition world wide. Native stock requires very little clearing and virtually no land management except fencing. Except for wool there is little difference in what can be produced by cloven hoofed animals and natives.

All the rhetoric in the world will not solve the problems, only compatible environmental methods will maintain and even improve all aspects of land use. We don't have to stop using cloven hoofed animals, but start replacing low carrying land with our environmentally friendly and easily maintained native animals.

Surely having a little sense and seeing that current practices are causing great harm and leading us to unsustainable land use and growing environmental destruction, shows that we are going in the wrong direction for this country. Use all the charts an figures you like, but reality always wins over statistics.

Ah the farmers, i have as much sympathy for them as they have for waterside workers and thier families.

Good point DFXK, the leakage from the regional economy is in direct proportion to the distance from the capital. The closer the State capital the more evenly the circular flow is distributed. Place two new state capitals in Tamworth and Wagga Wagga and watch the new states prosper. Leave the one capital for the entire area of NSW and watch as congestion chokes Sydney to death and destroys all semblance of a "quality of life". They even claimed a deserted beach on a December weekend as a success. Pathetic, and they think they have all the answers for the Bush.

And no need to debate regional enviro issues here, most readers are either ALP of Green voters, part of the problem, not the solution. When they have restored the Tank Stream to it's former condition they can come and have a chat about the Murray Darling.