Can I point out this isn’t about 1 particular farmer having problems, but an entire industry beset by over-regulation and constraints.

This is an industry that feeds you people. Wheat for your bread; meat for your burgers, steaks; fruit and veges. Fibre for your clothes. When we all go, as many of you seem to feel we should, who feeds you? Do any of you grow your own veges?

You put up with executives making multi millions as a yearly wage via the computer companies, banks etc and stomp on the guy who puts the food in your bellies. Where’s the complaints about that?

Are you complaining as loudly about Californian oranges flooding Australia’s market and putting your country neighbour out of business? Probably not.

I've been married to a farmer for over 35 years, and can tell you the days of the rich cockie are well and truly over. Outside of the Packers and Holmes a Courts, the basic farmer has a 2% return on his gross and a lifestyle that most of you would not have the intestinal fortitude to handle.

Every farmer I know has an outside income to supplement his farming – wife works, he contract works, shears, whatever. The superannuation your boss gives you – we provide for ourselves, and when it balances between grain to feed starving cattle and super – our own needs take second place.

Farmers in Broken Hill and outback areas may have spare money, but they can drive over an hour before they meet a neighbour, don’t have net access, phones are breaking down, home school their kids until they have to go to boarding school, fuel costs are monstrous. My daughter often sees no-one but her husband for days. Most of you people couldn’t survive out there. But you’re happy to pull those who can down.

We have farmed over 30 years, seen 2 major downturns in cattle prices – lasting approx 5 years each: major downturn in wool prices in 1986, which is still current in 2006. 3 droughts – 2 lasting 4-5 years each.

Cont ….

Cont…I have seen crows picking the eyes out of calves and lambs being born during the droughts; starving wild dog packs –usually town dogs – rip into stock. Farmers getting $1 a head for starving stock in the 80’s drought. Forget the “slick publicity images” Remco – here’s facts.

The handouts we got during that time consisted of a drought relief loan, which we paid back, and the dole for farmer’s wives in the ‘80s. Oh, and a diesel rebate – which mining companies also get. Lots of handouts eh!

But you all still want to eat, don’t you. You see steak selling for $22 a kg and think the farmer is making big money – in fact, he gets about $2.50 a kg for a live beast. Are you aware that we get less for a heifer than a steer? But is there a price difference in the meat stands? Have a word to your butcher about that one.

Well, I can tell you that I am seeing a decline in small family farming in this area, that will mean larger monopolies moving into farming, and you can bet they will control the prices better than the small guy can – so save up or forget what a steak tastes like.

As to subsidies, etc – drought loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK. They are not a gift. Any other discounted prices are no different to the types of tax relief any business in Australia can get.

One day you might all have your way – everyone will live on the coast in the cities and the rest of the state will be state forest and you can live on factory made tucker. Maybe then you might understand.

Bottom line – if you live in the city and have never worked or lived on a farm or in the country – get out of the conversation.

So you have hardships. Dont martyr yourselves and your children for the sake of cheap produce. Leave, and enjoy the wonderful life the rest of us enjoy. Dont punish yourselves for us - we dont really appreciate your sacrifice.

And dont worrry, THERE IS VIRTUALLY NO ZERO VALUE LAND! In other words, someone is always there to buy you out. And if you stay, then with a bit of luck you will have a photo opportunity in the next drought to be pictured in front of a dead sheep to get the inevitable payout arranged by your political party. It's your life and your choice to endure or to enjoy. We will not subsidise your lifestyle.

Yes at the FRINGE there are difficulties with seasonal and world economics and of course, the UNFAIR TO THEM environmental regulations.

Please put yourselves and your family BEFORE the rest of the country.

Stay and put up, or get out. Let the strong evolve with the quality that this country has produced and independently! Quality products produced on environmentally responsible managed lands in a country with a world image for quality. Australia is shaking out its victims, first in manufacturing in the 1980s, then the unions, but some at the fringe in rural Australia still hang on to jingoistic pleas. It's your life to chose.

You still don't get it, do you, Remco. You and your ignorant marginal urban electorate mates are the problem. The symptoms often show up as rural decline, diminishing terms of trade, insufficient fodder reserves (eaten by your exploded 'roo population) and mostly, regulatory sledge hammers to do the job of a scalpel.

We are sick to death of every minor government outlay in the bush being used as an excuse for deprivation of rights and liberties. That is why we want nothing to do with the city state that has been thrust upon us. Give us our own state within the commonwealth and we will gladly have abolutely nothing to do with you.

And we can get on with developing our export markets, policing our streets (properly), educating our kids and maintaining our roads according to our own priorities, set by our own parliament, with our own fair share of the GST money. Why would we need to go through a bunch of Sydney spivs to organise GST money from the Feds?

Excellent posts Remco.

Terrible stuff SuziQ; “Bottom line – if you live in the city and have never worked or lived on a farm or in the country – get out of the conversation.”

How outrageous! This debate is open to all, and so it should be.

Remco, no one gets what Perseus is on about. His concept of a separate state for farmers is one of the hairiest things I have ever heard. Presumably it wouldn’t have particular boundaries, as rural and non-rural people live in a mosaic. Or if it did have geographic boundaries, would all the urban townsfolk within the new state be expelled, along with all the non-immediately-rural businesses?

It is a totally negative concept. It is just a manifestation of more divisions and a further promulgation of the us-and-them attitude, which he is very good at. He actually makes it sound more like a separate country rather than a state. There doesn’t seem to be any willingness to work with the rest of the country – it is all just entirely self-centred.

And what makes him think that governance would be significantly better? There are enough rural shires in the country to realise that rural governance is not significantly better than the urban variety.

There is no war on farmers. But there are a couple of rural correspondents on this thread who are not far off declaring war on non-farmers. I think they are an embarrassment to the vast majority of farmers.

What saddens me is like the religious and cultural divisions and turmoils evident around the world, it is being expressed by some Australians on this topic. Somehow, rural people feel different, undermined, undervalued, exploited and controlled by urbanites. They express pain, discomfort, costs and deprivations that are not understood and appreciated. Sounds familiar? Oddly though, they still don’t want to live in comfort with us.

What seems to me is that we need to offer a new paradigm, a vision and means to get there. We have beautiful land, educated people and markets. Clearly some still hang on to old thinking and ways. They ignore salination and degradations and defend their rights to exploit (even the kangaroos have to be culled). Maybe they might need to adapt and get smarter.

I quoted Israel. Here is a country half the size of Tasmania and that includes desert. The country supports 7 million people. (Think of that, making allowance for their desert, the whole population of Australia could be kept in Tasmania and supported there). Australian dairy farmers study Israeli techniques and irrigation processes and that in a country just 60 years old. They are adaptive and just do it. Some Australians cry about hardships, unfairness and self sacrifice for others. Stuck old thinking people.

It's time we bought the self-perceived victims back 'out from the cold' and gave them responsibility for their own affairs. Educating them about managing the inevitable future droughts, collapses in world prices and new ways of farming like those in Israel. Helping the resistant to leave.

I am saddened in seeing pictures of dead sheep on parched lands and wasted efforts in preservation rather than adapting and getting smart. To show the world that like Israel, being of quality people managing a difficult land to produce appropriate and quality goods without this victim, mendicant mentality that drowns out those that get on with it. The National Party, like the Sin Feinn in Northern Ireland, is fanning the flames of a few. Repeat a lie often enough and they begin to believe it themselves. Blinkered to the opportunities.