Another "oh me oh my we have to understand them it is not their fault lets all hold hands and sing kumbayah" article.

Sometimes I wonder about the mental processes of these people. Do they really believe what they write? Is it possible?

Let me see if I can find an analogy...
Never criticize bad drivers because they may drive even worse.
Never criticize drunks for drinking because they may drink even more.
Never criticize robbers for stealing because they will steal even more.
Never criticise killers for killing because they may kill even more
Never criticize writers who write stupid articles because they may write even stupider (?) articles
At last it is making sense...

Unbelievable!

Kactuz

The author said:

"Yet the more these youths are demonised, the more they are driven to the margins to find meaning and identification with gangs and a subculture of defiance. The full force of law enforcement must be coupled with an understanding of the fears that underpin the anger that underpins the violence."

To me that means the police should be locking up those who commit the violence now but that we also need a longer term strategy to reduce the risk of violence in the future. To me that sounds reasonable. Reasonable, though, is not very fashionable in this discussion so I have a Plan B:

Why don't the police shoot to kill anyone who looks like they might be violent? Or maybe bomb Cronulla and Lakemba (just to be even-handed) and perhaps anywhere else where people may riot or where rioters may come from? That'd learn 'em.

Kaktuz,

The day you can show us irrefutable proof that over 10% of Australians of Lebanese and/or Arab and/or Muslim background have criminal convictions for violence-related offences is the day you will be taken seriously.

In the meantime, why don't you see if the police down at Cronulla beach will allow you to hand out more of those pamphlets ...

PS: In case it's relevant, none of my relatives are of Lebanese background.

At least we can pressure for transparency in the police force. To lobby for an enquiry into reverse discrimination by the police force and Iemma (seeing as his seat is that of lakemba) is not to hard. Many cases of reverse discrimination have been won in the USA.

It’s just a matter of a petition.

What I find obscene is the “peace pact” between the Comancheros leb majority bikie gang (Milperra Massacre) and the Bra Boys… was it a case of “peace our way or we kill you” the usual muslim solution?

The lebs demonise themselves. The lefties demonise Australians.

“It's not about "dialogue between communities", our "communities" understand each other perfectly well. That's the problem.”
http://romeomikes.blogspot.com/

Kaktuz,

snigger.

It makes perfect sense if you are trained as a social worker. I think this gentleman claims to have been something similar in the mid eighties. The one point that I would add is that you missed the mandatory laying of blame on the locals bit:

"Their fear was that their children would be corrupted by aspects of an overly permissive and promiscuous Australian culture."

See it is our fault all along, simple. If only we were suitably fascistic and celibate then none of this would have happened. Of course the opening sentence should have served as a clue:

"In the wake of the racist orgy in Sydney recently,"

Pretty much sets the tone for all that followed.

"But in this comfort zone, the risk of cultural insulation and chauvinism is heightened."

Whereas the above would seem to be an assertion of inherent chauvinism in the Lebanese community. Is this guy some sort of a racist or something.

Typically the author seems to think that the thoughts of street thugs that take their cues from rap songs are worth paying attention to. This is illuminating. Rap has its good points, in the main it always struck me as being an art form by and for those with reading difficulties. As such it no doubt serves as an "aid with their self esteem and surrounding issues". Or something. Who knows, maybe a million rappers with a million microphones for a million years... In the mean time Mr Wakim, it probably does not serve well as the basis for formulating coherent public policy.

As for fact check Irfan credibility boy, in the interests of your reputation, you were just about to divulge the names of those "10 prominent Lebanese & Arab Christian crime figures" before you got carried away and needed to wring your underwear dry.

Stupid Analogy

Never criticize bad drivers because they may drive even worse.
Educate them, Train them, Show them they are bad drivers they may improve.

Never criticize drunks for drinking because they may drink even more.
I am sure you mean alcoholics, who are ill. Treat their illness, give them support.

Never criticize robbers for stealing because they will steal even more.
Jail them if they are convicted of a crime.

Never criticise killers for killing because they may kill even more
Jail them for life, never give them a chance to kill again.

Never criticize writers who write stupid articles because they may write even stupider (?) articles
Writers thrive on comment good or bad, constructively criticise them and they may change their point of view

Alienation of any group will cause problems. Remember the majority of the people Kactuz condemns are Australians with all the rights we all take for granted.

Like many other infants who migrated to Australia in the mid-1950's I look Australian, I sound Australian, I eat vegemite - to all outward appearances I and my fellow infant migrants are Australian but many of us travel the world on non-Australian passports.

"Multiculturalism" allows new migrants to display their points of cultural difference but I bet more of them travel only on Australian passports.

The sad fact is that Australia is becoming a divided society with the elites earning international salaries and able to parttake of all Sydney has to offer and then to the west of Harbour Bridge live the Australians whose average wage is $38000. In times of high unemployment like now, employers can be vey picky in their choice of employees and youths with "attitude problems" just slide to the bottom of the pile.

This problem is only going to be resolved by creating an Australia where every one has a chance of a fair go and policing is done impartially by the paid police force.

Kactuz,
Would love to meet you face to face but i doubt you'd have the nerve to look into the eyes of someone who isn't scared of the truth.

Sorry Steve... sensible and logical arguments like that, will not be tolerated in OLO. :P Please blame minorities for ALL of society's problems, and most importatntly of all, label anyone who disagrees, a bleeding heart, do- gooder, lefty, etc.

Ooops,
Hey You Lebo hating neo-fascist scum. Leave the poor bleeding heart, lettuce eating, tree hugging, labor voting, lefty greenie, democrat voting, whale whatching, wheatgrass snorting, bob brown supporting, rainbow loving Joseph alone.

Is that better silent? (Grin)

Yeah that'll do it. Seriously, demonising particular groups isn't doing anybody any good. Its only natural for groups of people who get blasted by the rest of us to band together in groups for defence and solidarity. Some people may enjoy the notoriety ( is that spelt right?) and wear it on sleeves. Who knows? All I know is that all this violence can be blamed on both sides, and it doesn't matter who is supposedly "more at fault than the other". Retaliation is dumb, and blaming political correctness is even dumber.

[Deleted at writer's request]

I think Joseph Wakim's comments make alot of sense, and I tend to vote Liberal.

Silent do you think it might be worthwhile to look at the way 'political correctness' has contributed to a stifling of debate about race and culture in Australia.

It seems that we can celebrate differences when we are all in 'harmony' but it does feel sometimes that those who wish to discuss these very same differences when they conflict and give rise to problems like those around Sydney are quickly branded racist or intolerant – which, in itself, can be seen as a marginalisation that, it could be argued, has made those who disagree or even just question policies such as multiculturalism more extreme.

OK, guys, lets get a few things straight:
1. I am not afraid of any of you, of Islam, or anybody else. Too old, and like Scarlet, I just don't give a damn.
2. I would love to meet you, Rainier. We could also invite DB, Dawood, Keith, Kay, Scout, Pete, Kalweb, Skid, FH and Irf - to name a few. We could sit down and have a beer, but I don't like the stuff. To say the least, it would be interesting.
3. What I say, I say with passion. In case you haven't noticed, the world has many problems, and one of them is Islam. Yes, there are other problems out there, and I take a stab at them, but not here.
4. Speaking out against Islam is not for the fainthearted. Enough said.
5. Yes, I generalize too much; but as retorical device.
6. I quote mostly from Islamic sources, so if Muslims don't like what I say, then the problem is not old Kactuz. Follow me?
7. Irf, I don't understand that 10% thing. Never said that. Anyway, I owe you and Im good for my promises.
8. Yes, Joseph, criticizing youths may radicalize them, but if you see wrong, you must speak up. It is the lesser evil and the right thing to do.
9. This issue of Islam is both frustrating and amusing. The ability of Muslims to deny the obvious is fascinating, in a strange way. I am more convinced than ever that someone has to tell Muslims the truth, since "our" leaders are not going to do it.
10. I don't do these posting to antagonize Muslims or because I hate them, but because I want them to think. I also want non-Muslims to understand what the ideology that threatens them.
11. So far, I've probably made no difference at all - as far as I can tell. But who cares? So what! I am pessimistic about the future and I think a lot of people will get hurt, probably more Muslims than not. Sad.

Thats it. John

There is no excuse for the bad behaviour on all sides of the recent riots but there is also no excuse why the authorities have not stopped the vilification of young girls and women who in this society dress differently to the society in another part of the world where women are repressed and men can do what they like.
There is no excuse whatever for the violence and law breaking of any gang and pleading ethnicity is no excuse.
Saying some groups are marginalised because of their misbehaviour is stupid.
It is probably understandable that some of the young of the recently migrated families are living in two worlds and that would be confusing but if they cannot or will not agree to abide by Australian
laws and customs, it would be better if the whole families were returned to their homelands.
Australia does not need those who refuse to accept our ways.

Now lets look out for all the leftie contributions telling this guy, the founder of the Australian Arabic Council and a former multicultural affairs commissioner, that he is wrong, that there isn't a "lebanese problem", that the problem is with white Australia, underlying racism, anglo-yobs, yaddee yaddee yadda...

This article paints a picture of a pretty disturbed lot of people. Temperemental people on the back foot, wary of those around them, ready for attacks, ready to make the first strike. It then goes on and tell us they we need to accomadate for this, in the same way you deal with a vicious dog, let him sniff your hand, don't make any sudden movements etc. These aren't dogs of course though, these are humans, but we still need to be careful because for some reason they can't just do the right bloody thing.

Personally I say get stuffed, ship up or ship out, everyone else has managed to. These people are the visitors, the onus is on them to conform, to respect our laws and values. They have brought the so-called demonising on themselves by not doing that.

PS. Where are the articles directed at the Lebanese Muslim community such as this? When are they directed on how they should behave in order to resolve this "problem"? The Lebanese community needs to take a good hard look at itself if this article is any indication of the prevaling mentality.

Mickijo, can you expand a bit on what you mean by 'our ways'?

My wife has just been granted a temporary residents visa and was given a form entitled 'Settlement information for migrants to Australia'. Along with describing the kind of services that are and are not available to new migrants, under the heading 'Australia's multicultural society' is this summary of ‘our ways’:

“There are a few basic principles which all Australians - old and new - must hold. These include loyalty to Australia and acceptance of the basic structures and principles of Australian society - the rule of law, tolerance, equality of opportunity, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion. English as the national language, and racial and sexual equality. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex or religious belief.”

To me this hardly defines our national identity, nor does it give migrants any insight into 'our ways' or how they would be expected to ‘fit in’ to these ways. This dry and sterile definition of what it means to be Australian (I cannot find any more descriptive or inspiring words on the DIMIA website) is probably the result of letting lawyers run the country.

Perhaps it is time to open up the 'what does it mean to be Australian' discussion again. We could work toward defining ‘Australianism’ (sorry for the ugly word, but can’t think of anything better at the moment) and reinvigorate the (I believe worthwhile) vision of a multi-cultural nation.

The resulting new statement of ‘Australianism’ would then form the basis of the citizenship (and residency I would suggest) and provide a solidifying concept of what it means to be Australian –rather than the vague notions that have been tossed around following the Sydney troubles. (It would also make a good opener to the constitution of an Australian Republic but that’s another story……)

Joseph tells us that Lebanese fled the horrors of war seeking peace and freedom in Australia. What is the very first thing that these eleutheromaniacs find so confronting? FREEDOM. The trauma suffered by Lebanese as they wrestled with freedom served as an augury of the inimicality of immigration from that area of the world. We are supposed to believe that a nation that ripped itself apart with a civil war is an ideal source of migrants.

How on earth can Joseph blame the head of a despised Western nation in John Howard and his dog-whistle politics for alienating Lebanese and at the same time tell us that Lebanese youth look to the USA, a more despised nation, for instructions on how to dress, act, and behave while wallowing in a dichotomous world of 'have and have not', lost opportunities and doors that are always closed to them. I have yet to run across any school that expels students because they are Lebanese. The rejection of education is the choice of the individual. The only difficulty this presents is to find someone or something to blame. Howard and Australians seem to be a convenient target for this.

Lebanese youths will be driven to the margins because of their diet of mindless rap music and worship of 'gangsta' figures coming from the USA. The absence of bruises on their bodies would indicate that no one is forcing them.

“There are a few basic principles which all Australians - old and new - must hold. These include loyalty to Australia and acceptance of the basic structures and principles of Australian society - the rule of law, tolerance, equality of opportunity, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion. English as the national language, and racial and sexual equality. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex or religious belief.”

i think thats about it really. what else would you expect it to say? thou must drive either a holden or a ford? thou must bore me sh*tless with discussions of big brother or australian idol? thou must support a footy team? such 'cultural' descriptions are transient, they change and some kind of adherence to a sterotypical description of an 'aussie' is not a requirement for fulfilling the above statement. the reason statements like these and documents such as the constitution are usnspecific about behaviour or culture is because they are an attempt to state, in as few principals as possible, the basis of the society.

can anyone name any other basic principals of what it means to be australian? im willing to bet that any others raised are allready covered, probably a number of times in that statement.

just on that. by some of those standards and including a couple of arjay's points for a definition of 'ozzyness' from another thread (i dont agree with all, but the sense of humour and freedom from religion clauses i like), there are a few posters on this site who would not make the standard for an australian. ironicaly (as one must allways be when dealing with extremeism) such posters would probably classify themselves as the most patriotic.

but i guess we all must maintain the particular reality that agrees with us.

I agree. The statement, “There are a few basic principles which all Australians - old and new - must hold. These include loyalty to Australia and acceptance of the basic structures and principles of Australian society - the rule of law, tolerance, equality of opportunity, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion. English as the national language, and racial and sexual equality. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, sex or religious belief.”, sounds pretty good to me. Both the far right Aryan gangs and the ethnic Lebanese gangs are not following these principles so they're both in the wrong and some education is clearly needed. Some education of our politicians wouldn’t go astray either. More education for everyone! Hang on, public schools aren’t properly funded and university degrees cost thousands of dollars…. Hmmm. I can see $55million that would have been better spent on some TV ads about the above definition of being Australian rather than WorkChoices....

Also since I’m an educated pedant (although one of the things about being an educated pedant is happiness in being corrected - but only if the corrector is correct will I be a willing corectee) and having paid my thousands for a law degree I could point out in respect of the above definition that:
1. The rule of law is a reasonably complex concept:
http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v9n1/sykes91.html
2. Freedom of speech is not guaranteed under the Constitution:
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rn/2001-02/02rn42.htm
3. Freedom of religion is not a complete guarantee under the Constitution:
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/speeches/human_rights/mission_australia.html

I don't really care what their personal problems are , I just want the law to be applied in a manner appropriate to their crimes , preferably capital punishment and in public.

'The full force of law enforcement must be coupled with an understanding of the fears that underpin the anger that underpins the violence.'

Please explain what that means in practical terms. Explain how a policeman can use knowledge about the childhood influences of offenders to his advantage when he (or she) is confronted by an armed gang of 30 threating to kill him and/or rape his wife. It's good to understand the reasons behind the way people behave, it helps to make better decisions. But now we have a serious gang and organised crime problem on our hands in Sydney. That requires a policing strategy to protect everyone, of every racial background. The damaging of vehicles in Maroubra was wanton. Maroubra is a very 'mixed' suburb (I know, I was a postman there), and the people whose property was damaged would definitely have included a full range, not only the intended 'target' of 'Anglo's'. The businesses now suffering by the coast are of course owned or run by a wide range of different people. They are all being punished due to behaviour of gangs.

'Yet the more these youths are demonised, the more they are driven to the margins to find meaning and identification with gangs and a subculture of defiance.'

They are already behaving like demons, already at the margins, have already identified with gangs, and already have a fully developed subculture of defiance. The only reason it hasn't escalated to the US level yet is because of our stricter gun laws and our smaller population. The drug trafficking relies on international networks. We need to know where the drugs are coming from. We need to know where the guns are coming from.

I found the article too defensive. It's time to remove the big potato wedge off the shoulder and talk about realities on the ground. The most serious offenders act as role models for the younger and less experienced ones. That overrides the efforts of social workers. Counselling, etc. cannot work until a robust attempt to shut down the gangs occurs. Police intelligence and police action first.

Pedant

Correctee

Social Workers?

Are we discussing the same issue?

My premise is that the discussion , is related to perveted , sexually deviant , violent drug dealing terrorists.

Social Workers are for Single Mums , homeless people , the aged , the sick , Goulburn pre 1970 or Katingal is for these deviants?

What we need to deal with them is a Volunteer Militia given free reign.

http://franksartor.org/orangenet/multiculturalism.htm

This is merely another list of excuses from an Arab man and ex worker in the multicultural industry

TeamWorkTom,

No one gives a stuff about their childhoods, lots of us had bad childhoods, and haven’t waged a jihad over it. A bad childhood does not give lebs the right to terrorize Cronulla and Sydney or any western country they reside in.

The Liberal party will be voted in until islamic problems are under control. Iemma member for lakemba and NSW Premier will be voted out thank god.

I saw your site earlier, I downloaded the WW2 and victims of IRA remembrances and will pass them around.

First islam asked us to agree it was a few freaky terrorists in the middle east, then they were in the mosques through out the west, then they were local born islamists blowing up London’s buses, now they are local gang suburbs of islamists in Paris/Sydney.
And they still ask us to accept it. crazy if they think we will.

European countries are now deporting islamists. We will here as well very soon .

Stuff the victim game and stuff sharia. People are sick of interfaith and community talks about islamists and their suffering. We all know what the deal is.

Steve Madden,

“Thank god for chronic lymphocytic leukaemia. We won't have to suffer him much longer.
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 20 December 2005 3:51:33 PM”

Just ignore rainer that was disgusting. If it gives you any comfort he said this a little earlier to someone else.

“Would love to meet you face to face but i doubt you'd have the nerve to look into the eyes of someone who isn't scared of the truth.”
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 20 December 2005 2:43:01 PM

hehe funny hey

… best of luck fighting leukaemia

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR

Founded on an invasion of the land of Terra Australis, white men from England,Scotland and Ireland arose and became strong. Our language is English.

White men also invaded parts of New Zealand.

The Ngapuhi Maori Tribe, traded with the White men, gained muskets and destroyed rival Tribes.

The Crown of the White men who settled in New Zealand, created the Treaty of Waitangi

That Treaty, had 2 versions. English and Maori. They differed in a few critical words about ‘sovereignty’. This led to wars. Deception usually does.

Italians came to Australia
Greeks came to Australia
Yugoslavs came to Australia
Russians came to Australia
Poles came to Australia
Asians came to Australia
and many others.

None of these alone changed the prevailing Anglo cultural flavor in significant ways.
Collectively, they have made a difference, but not a difference reflecting any one of their cultures, just diluting the Anglo.

There is much to condemn in history, and much to commend. All cultures can co-exist to the extent they do not seek sovereignty over the prevailing one. To do so, is an act of, and will result in .....war. Sovereignty is not ‘superiority’ except in military strength. When Justice is the goal, sovereignty is not a problem.

Let us all reach out to each other. Recognize the realities of history, condemn that which was evil, commend that which was right, and embrace that which ties us together.

There is a cultural reality in Australia, reaching back to its Anglo, beginnings, Indigenous,Maori, Islander, European migrant, we are all one, but our one-ness has its roots in the frailty of human nature. We live in the framework of History, and that history in Australia has a flavor, a language and a culture.

Man will always seek to extend himself, White against Indigenous, against Maori, Maori against Maori against white .. etc. Winners can be grinners, and when they treat others with dignity, they also can grin.
Dignity is not sovereignty. There will always be winners and losers.

Perhaps this is relevant to the current problems in Sydney ?

What utter rubbish. Here are a few answers to the problem of thugs of any ethnicity.
1: Minimum sentences of 2 years for any armed, or violent crime.
2: Hard labor. We have millions of acres of national park, & grazing land disappearing under noxious weeds. Put them to work doing something useful for a change.
3: Lets invite the governor of that jail in Bali down here to run the system. He has a few good ideas on how to treat criminals.
4: Forget rehabilitation, a Bali type jail for a couple of years is all the rehab. required.
5: If the cops can't handle them, I'm sure the SAS can do the job.
Should please the bleeding hearts if we bring them home.

Meredith

I know that this question should go directly to Rainier, but if I do, I know that in his usual style, he will be sarcastic and/or agressive towards me.

I do not understand the joke about leukaemia. What is that all about? I cannot understand how any person can joke about leukaemia - no matter who they are. Clearly, I am naive, or I have lost the plot somewhere (once again, as Coach would say!).

I can look anyone in the eye and speak my truth (which could be a vastly different version or interpretation to the listener). I can also look any other person in they eye when they speak their version of their truth.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL
Cheers
Kay

kalweb,

It unfortunately appears as though the poster Steve Madden has leukaemia. There are links in his profile to his blog, at which he expands on this.

To which the poster known as Rainier left the following comment:

"Thank god for chronic lymphocytic leukaemia. We won't have to suffer him much longer."

Which occurs at the middle of this thread somewhere.

For once I am speechless.

However, I offer my encouragement to Mr Madden and hope for the best for him.

Joseph is just making excuses for very bad behaviour.

Some Lebanese youth,a minority,choose to live on the margins of society. The majority of Lebanese youth just want to live their lives in peace.

Joseph Wakim in an attempt to micro-scrutinize the Lebanese problem, has watered down even further spreading it into a transoceanic problem incorporating the US cultural influence, the ghetto mentality, transrelegious and so forth.

No attempt on his part to give room for personal responsibility.

After all the war is history now (1975-1990) some of these youngsters were born here well after and most have never been to Lebanon.

The baby-sitting mentality continues. It seems we are far away from imposing law and order on these poor "infants".

Again Joseph Wakim shows us just why this problem will not go easily go away. Not only do we have most of the muslim community against us by default, through racism and tribalism, we also have the left, who own all of the universities and the media, but they actually think the opposite.

"But it is far from the truth. These parents fled to Australia because they chose peace, not war, because they did not want to raise their children in a climate of fear and oppression."

If this were really true, like it is for many other WWII Europeans who came to Australia for peace, then why did the muslim Lebanese community establish one of Sydney's largest crime centres? Why is it that when I add all the figures of all the most heinous crimes in the demographic zones where their community is, as well as the Vietnamese/Cambodian community, and when I listen to various people in-the-know such as Peter Ryan(when he was police commissioner), the impression I get is that most violent, gang, organised crime in Sydney is committed by less than 10% of the population(the Lebanese muslims and the Vietnamese). I don't see any other ethnic groups forming crime markets and eating the nations welfare.
How can anything possibly justify the hundreds of gang rapes(check with the police before you criticize me) and bashings, even murders that have occurred on innocent Australians over the years, just for admitting that they were skips?
Everyone gets called names at school, especially the white kids at southwest Sydney schools where whites are the minority, but to top it off, the white kids get bashed by up to 30 thugs if they dare fight back. In many cases, kids have been forced out of the state for fear of their lives just for protecting girls from harassment.

Did anybody hear about the principle at Punchbowl Boys High, who sued the government for his treatment by muslim thugs, one even holding a gun to his head. I wonder how many similar stories there are like this that get politically silenced?

"Their dream was the same as most Australians: their own home, security and family. Their fear was that their children would be corrupted by aspects of an overly permissive and promiscuous Australian culture. Their response was over-protectiveness, which perhaps fostered a more rebellious attitude in their young."

You mean that their fear was that they would be corrupted by what they see as "a slut culture", an uneducated, racist way of describing an open, free, non-police-state culture. The problem is that they come from a place where it is like a jungle, the stronger criminal/killer controls with fear until he is killed and replaced. In such societies there is no open, rational debate, which is why they should even more appreciate the freedoms we have here in Australia but they can't see past their little muslim/anti-western noses, and their parents ought to feel extreme shame for that, robbing their children of a decent future by filling them up with old hates, making it impossible for them to even slightly respect or even tolerate others, let alone authority.

It makes me furious when such an out-of-character event like the Cronulla protest happens for the most legitimate reasons possible, it gets ignored and shouted down by the left, with their little racist ethnic pets(like Keysar Trad) beside them, spitefully throwing rocks from behind their left-wing "power givers". Why don't they actually go and live in Cabramatta or Telopia street, and don't travel around by car, walk, get the train or bus to work, enrol your kids(especially your daughters) at the local Punchbowl High or Cabramatta/Heroin High. Do this for a year or two and then get back to me. These left-wing people have a hide to call the Central Coast the "white flight" as though they are all a bunch of rednecks who left Southwestern Sydney simply because they are intolerant, not because they were sick of living in fear of being killed for looking the wrong way at a bunch of ethnic cowards, or having their kids get on now-since-1975-Vietnam-migrants-very-cheap-heroin, or their daughters gang raped by a culture of peadophiles.

The Author of this article and many posters here are falling into the usual populist-cultural trap of labelling.

Only when people behave as individuals and accept responsibility for their conduct and respect other individuals will the process move foreward.

Whilst the Author labels people into ethnic groups and makes apologetic excuses for criminal behaviour, the problem of racist violence will perpetuate.

As for the "Lebanese" or any other ethnic minority or majority - lets get this straight

No section of the Australian Community is above the law.
No one person or group of people are immune from prosecution.

Criminal conduct deserves criminal prosecution and possibly gaol.

Now all we need to do is get the judiciary and the politicians to actually support the police and enforce appropriate penalties for obnoxious behaviour, instead of following the "appeasement" trail which has brought us to the state we are now in.

Remember - "appeasement"? - it did not work for Chamberlain and it will not work for Australia.

Friedrich:

Fröhliche Weihnachten, und bitte halt dich aus Schwierigkeiten raus..

Schön Tag..

Curiously I find myself in some agreement with Col Rouge – having said that

I keep on reading the posts here and marvel and the vitriol, underlying racism and the bizarre pillorying of the left , of Arabs, Muslims and academics. Add that to the incessant use of the word “we” – and in most instances it refers to the white anglo-saxon section of the community.

I cant help but think many migrants would be some what scared of life here. Scared enough to regress and turn to violence. That certainly is no excuse but it should give some people cause to look behind the violence when seeking a solution – after applying the rule of law. The biggest disincentive to offer would be migrants would be to send them links to this site. They would probably pay more attention to the posts than the articles and turn in their visas pronto.

But then I look at the recent polls published in the popular press; 75% of Australians believe Australia is racist and 81% think multiculturalism is ok – pretty blunt analysis

But we can draw a few conclusion – those who vehemently assert Anglos are victims of reverse racism and are threatened by extremely fertile mulsims, blindly think organised violence springs spontaneously form the hearts of Arabs, Lebanese, home grown terrorists or gay Tele Tubbies will suggest the numbers are cooked, the sample was skewed, they only sampled people in detention centres or the paradoxically all powerful “left” has some how influenced the outcome or some such nonsense.

As for me I think the numbers are about right – most right thinking people agree that there is an element of racism in Australia – there will be an element of reverse racism as well, to deny it would be foolish. And for the most part those who live here have benefited from multiculturalism; the biggest mistake policy makers made was to name it – to single it out – as something outside or extra to the lived experience

p2

Multicultural is just the way we are. If you think you weren’t asked then you’ve been asleep for thirty years or longer. If you don’t’ like it get used to it. Or leave perhaps – even if you grew here rather than flew here – time may have past you by. On several occasions in OLO it has been recommended I leave the country – some think I am a self loathing Australian hater – well, departure is an option open to all of us if we don’t like it .

So what is my point? Genuine Australians will fix the stench that has risen from the beaches of Sydney the way we have done in the past. The broader community that has developed over the last century or so will sort this mess out. Elected officials, police, ethnic community leaders, religious leaders, even academics will develop a consensus – and some will be unhappy but so what. That’s democracy.

Those who claim it is the fault of a particular group or class of people will essentially be left out of the debate. Why? Because the views represented by those people, whose positions are fairly pre determined, whose posts are littered with phrases like “of the left”, sneering references to academics, PC, mickey mouse assumptions about Islamism, laying claim to be part of the silent majority , pre conceived ideas about the intent of migrants, biblical predictions, anthropological gobbledigook about ethnic predisposition to crime and violence – are at the margins of the community; The very loud minority. They are as ugly and as potentially dangerous as those few Muslims who have an entrenched sense of hatred; they too will be marginalised, appropriately punished and left as an irrelevant angry boil on our collective butts.

Sneeky
yes.. indeed you should agree with Col because he is speaking plain common sense.

You should also recognize that it is the ABSENCE of the thing you are agreeing about in Sydney, due in large part to political and ideological reaons about policing, that CAUSED the festering boil that eventually was lanced last weekend. Now the puss is all over us.

Your dismissive reference to 'anthropological GOBBLDYGOOK' err.. c'mon, if you want to get to the bottom of this problem, there is no better place to begin. "How societies and cultures function" is not a bad starting point.

THE LEFT well.. again dismissive. Perhaps we should be more specific GREEN LEFT weekly/Socialist Alliance type lefties.... who are engaging in what I would absolutely describe as seditious alliance making with Arab/Muslims and deliberately and maliciously avoiding references to ANYthing which could in the least bit suggest any blame on those communities. This is not something to be trivialized given that Marxists always said they only needed 10% of the population for a revolution to succeed.

ACADEMICS who dismiss a 'reaction' to long standing RACISM (not 'reverse racism' its the real thing) and then describe it as 'white racists' deserve every bit of condemnation and villification they get. They are seditious without question.

Lets remember, on the loony fringe of 'white supremacists' we had some 'bashings'... on the CALCULATING fringe of extremist (what I would describe as 'orthodox') Islam we have
-links to Bin Ladin and
-plots/discussions on killing not just our Prime minister,
-his family but ALSO
-innocent children as some kind of 'payback' which has Allahs blessing.

I sense a disproportionate bias in your trivialization of valid criticism of various elements mentioned in your post. Given that your own son was beaten up in the name of Arab 'turf' ? (newsflash, he could have easily been KILLED)

Sorry OT here, have to address that poll that sneekeepete has raised as proof of how racist we all are.

Racism isn't on or off, the poll question asked if there was "underlying racism in Australia". Well we just had white supremists parading around a beach. We've had gang rapes by people who claim the victims have it coming to them because of their race, and then seen their community leader make excuses for them. We've got people in peace marches denigrating the Australian flag and anglo Australians.

Of course there is SOME racism in the country, so the answer was yes.

Here's a more sensible question if you want to gauge how racist Australia is,

"On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least racist, where would you place Australia in terms of the nations prevailing tolerance and acceptance of foreign cultures relative to other world nations?"

On the world scale, about 1.

If I'm wrong tell who these other less racist nations are?

Having lived in Australia since I was 5 months old, I can say with great confidence that this country isn't racist. How do I know? Because probably the only really racist people I have met have been on these forums. And there is only a handful of them.

Sir 'Mosque-teer' Boaz,

Your comments remind me always with American priest on late night TV (the I belieeeeeveeee guy).:-)

Seriously now, I was on Brighton last weekend for lunch and I believe I saw an arrest. A ‘white super-something’: they are all kids.

Youth problem is a social issue and gang problem is a law enforcement issue.

To pin the blame solely on ethnicity or religion is rather naïve because the underlying assumption that these youth have normal relations with their parents and are practising their religion. Fact is, most of these gangs neither get along with their parents, communities or Mosques.

We just need to enforce the law and give youth problems coverage, media and ears. We were all teens one day and all we needed is to be heard. Why don’t we have a ‘teen station’?

Irfan,

Agree with your comment there is no racism in Australia. Sadly international media painted an ugly picture of Australia,

HarryC
"On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least racist, where would you place Australia in terms of the nations prevailing tolerance and acceptance of foreign cultures relative to other world nations?

On the world Scale about 1"

Agree 100% Harry

And I would rate most of Western Europe around 2 (on average, pushed up by France)
Most of Eastern Asia around 4
Most of Africa around 6
Northern Americas around 2
Southern Americas around 4
Middle East and Western Asia - particularly those states who have a system of "guest workers" 8
Russia around 6
Japan around 5
North Korea around 8
China around 6
India around 6

So, when someone says is Australia a "Racist" country - well it might be - but on relative measures, which are the ones which actually count, no where near as "racist" as the rest of the world.

Sneekster,
Sensible, educated and most of all, balanced. But then you are most of the time aren’t you?

I seem to recall you are or were a journalist or similar? I mentioned an idea I had to Waleed on another thread and I was wondering if you would be interested in a dialogue, hopefully leading to some action to educate and unify the greater Australia? If so, contact me at:

unitedaustralia@hotmail.com

If not, I’m sure it’s because you are too busy. But keep up the tolerant, educated discourse…

Meredith and Mr.P.Pig.

Thanks for your support. My bone marrow my be f*#*ed but my mind still works.

Rainier was man enough to apologise in another thread and for this I thank him.

I have lived in 19 countries and Australia with all its problems is by far the best. At least we can have these discussions which I think is healthy.

Cheers
Steve

Demonised? get a grip on reality Joe!the day some, yes some of these youths stop useing the term Australian as an insult we an start to build a common comunity.
Multi culturism has NOTHING to do with the riots, most almost every group has blended into Australia.
Some refuse to, and I refuse to let truth be bared in this debate.

I am an Oz expat who has lived in Japan for some time and while I enjoy my life here I have to say something about its negative side.

I saw Japan ranked as 5 on the scale of racism proposed by somebody. I can`t agree. Japan is more an 8 out of 10 because the racism here (although sometimes excused as extreme ethnocentricity)is institutionalised - it`s all-pervasive. It`s not in your face but in some ways that makes it worse and very difficult to confront.

There is widespread yet usually subtly expressed hostility to non Japanese - to the point where Japanese people who were born in Japan and whose parents are Japanese but whose grandparent/s were born in Korea and forcibly brought to Japan during World War 2 as slave labour, have to register as non Japanese at their city hall. Just like I had to do as an `Alien`. Japanese law and society are governed by racialist notions of `Japanese blood` and anybody else is `Gaijin` - outside person.

There are no anti-racial discrimination laws in Japan - indeed the Government here has repeatedly refused to countenance them yet wants to hold a powerful position in an important UN body. I can give many instances of why Japan ranks 8 but I would take up too much space.

FH and Irf

Come on fellas. Of course there is racism in Australia outside of OLO. Where have you been all of your lives? Racism is alive and very well from my experience.

Many of my family and friends are prime examples. It's just that they keep their views inside the family home, just as they keep sex and religion inside of the family home.

CHEERS AND "PEACE" to you and a Very Merry Christmas to others.
Kay

PS: The Archbishop of Sydney was interviewed today by Tim Webster. He was very clear that racism is alive and well in this country.

Didn't think much of this article, some OK points but the bit about Australia's overly permissive and promiscuous society definetely stuck in the throat. Am also unconvinced that the gangs got started because the kids were getting bullied in school. Young men of all colours find the tribalism of gangs attractive, and most of them grow out of it if they have other things in their lives/appropriate guidance or whatever.. perhaps it's that thats lacking here.

Also found myself to my considerable surprise agreeing with Col Rouge's first post. Can't let this statement from Matthew S go by though -
"we also have the left, who own all of the universities and the media"

Oh yes, damn those prominent socialists Rupert and Kerry..

Worldoflight you're right about the Japanese. A relative of mine was in downtown Tokyo when spotted by a young Japanese boy. He pulled his mother's arm and pointed at my cousin and shouted 'gaijin, gaijin'. They are very insular people.

Kalweb, we're importing racists and bigots. Cop this:
Muslims Assault Non-Muslim in Immigration Detention Centres

A deeply disturbing scandal has emerged in Australia's immigration
detention centres where Christians and other non-Muslim
asylum-seekers have been "stoned, assaulted, sexually harassed and
abused by Islamic fanatics".

Reza, an Iranian Christian, was blinded in one eye last August
when a group of Afghan Muslim men stoned Christians leaving the
dining hall in Woomera detention centre. In another incident a
Christian man was kicked to the floor and his cross was ripped
from his neck. In December 2001 an eighteen-year-old Mandean girl
(a small religious group which follows the teachings of John the
Baptist) was shouted at by Muslim men in a dining hall who called
her a "dirty, filthy infidel" who shouldn't be allowed to serve
food to Muslims. When she attempted to argue back she was "pushed
to the ground and kicked and abused." In a similarly shocking
incident a blind Mandean man was seized by Muslim men, held down
and defecated on before being left in a locked toilet. In other
incidents non-Muslim girls have faced sexual harassment and verbal
abuse because they do not wear Islamic veils, the doorways
of Mandean asylum seekers have been defecated in, and a local
Islamic mullah has even called for a jihad (holy war) against
Mandeans at the Port Hedland detention centre.

Non-Muslim men, women, and even children, many of whom fled
Muslim-majority countries like Iran in the first place because
they were being persecuted for their faith, are now facing
abuse of a horrific nature from Muslim conservatives
in Australia's detention centres. The majority of asylum seekers
in Australia are Muslims.
http://www.domini.org/openbook/aust20020520.htm

All this without being 'contaminated' by contact with Australians and our promiscuous slut society. How is that possible?

Things that make you wanna say Mmmmmmmmm.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, thanks Sage

If we want to move forward we must be able to separate the racial from the religious in this debate.

Islamic attitude is not unlike the Japanese except SO MUCH more vile and malicious.

If you have doubts try settling in an islamic country.

Thanks for illustrating for us a snippet of what is been imposed on this society in the name of soft immigration, social naivety, incompetent government and blind compassion.
But then again it’s called racism.

Mmmmmm and more mmmmm

Sneekepeete,

"reverse racism", this says it all. You cannot comprehend the word "racism" and "against whites" at all, you need to call it something that reveals much my friend. White people are somehow superior you and your uneducated left buddies actually believe; ethnic others are some kind of inferior pet that needs "special" treatment. You really believe that there are no real white victims of racism.
A nice freudian slip

Hellothere,

You must know that I did not mean "economically owned", in regards to the Universities or media, I mean : when has there ever been a serious investigative journalistic program or even just a basic news program such as "Lateline" that was hosted by a so-called right-wing journalist like Piers Akerman or Andrew Bolt? When do think any journalist or academic will seriously confront the Muslim leadership denial of bigotry and racism that exists in the islamic diasporas?

When will an academic be allowed to openly express views and ask tough questions about the ethnocentricity and high crime that exists in some ethnic communities without being publicly and professionally blacklisted?

This really is Orwell's 1984. The idiots and racists actually believe that the reverse is true; the real fighters are demonised with stupid propaganda and made to feel like a "red under the bed".

Matthew S., you obviously haven't been reading the opinion pages of the Australian newspaper recently.

The Australian Wild West where guns capture territory. How are the children of this school going to feel about those Muslim youth? Will they demonise them?

By J. Grant Swank, Jr.
Dec 15, 2005 - The Post Chronicle(tm) Commentary
"Here. Read this and weep: "The only thing I am worried about is that it's going to further play on the minds of young Australian Muslims, particularly of Lebanese origin. It's going to lower the morale which has already been lowered. They are young Australians who don't have a sense of belonging..."

That was told to the media by the head of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, Keysar Trad, after the ruckus in recent days.

Is there any bleeding heart on his behalf for the Muslim bullets that tore into Australian worshipers' automobiles as the latter were singing Christmas carols in the sanctuary. The archbishop and staff of the Christian school were aghast. They could not even gather peacefully this Christmastide for a carol sing without mayhem going on outside the church. And then there was gunfire. The bullets were shot at the cars parked outside.

Where is Trad's crying handkerchief for the Christians, especially the youngsters, who were bowing their heads in prayer, then lifting their voices in holy chorus in honor of the Christ Child? Where is his anguish for the Christians who left that church, returning home, wondering if they were going to be murdered before reaching their front doors?

Oh, the world is to fall prostrate when a Muslim is grieved. Is that it?

So they get their prayer room in a New Jersey athletic stadium. ..."
At http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_2121951.shtml

Joseph Wakim, would you be as daring to describe self professed Lebanese drug gangs as being the result of increasing marginalisation of non whites by Australian culture? A 'Leb' out of work because of our endemic racism forced to push drugs and thuggery to feed his family? Your comments are as outrageous as they are misguided. A fundamental overhaul of Australia's sectarianism is needed to prevent the Balkanisation of Australian surburbia. State governments can ill afford to employ the divide and conquer strategem of 'Multiculturalism'as a means of subjugating their constituents, and a premier whose own electoral seat serves as a Mecca (forgive the pun) for culturally driven crime will certainly be too much of a coward for truly meaningful action to take place.

As consort suggests , there needs to be a fundamental overhaul , but of Australias' secterianism?

What is needed is a fundamental overhaul of the Anti-Discrimination Act!
What is needed fundamental overhaul sentencing laws.

What is needed fundamental overhaul sentencing as to penalties for for crimes such as terror.

What is needed fundamental overhaul in the places of confinement.

What is needed to a return to corporal punishment!

What is needed is a change of government in New South Wales.

Also these recent crimes are not just criminal, they are hate crimes, against not individuals but the state and by recalcitrant militant Muslims.

Also this would be an opportunity to further privatise the prison system, by contracting out the detention of those guilty of these particular crimes. This privatisation also being of benefit to those who receive our foreign aid, by substituting this aid for services such as the provision of detention centres.

As for Morris Iemmas’ seat of Lakemba serving as a Mecca , he is not the only State Labor politician dependent on preferential treatment from Muslims , so is the seat of Rockdale , as well as numerous other members of Parliament and members of local councils , through the use of branch stacking.
Even Barry Jones has admitted the reason for lax immigration policies during the 1970s’ .

http://franksartor.info

Not alot of Christmas spirit on this forum. Then again, Jesus and Mary were Middle Easterners!

Not alot of Christmas spirit on this forum. Then again, Jesus and Mary were Middle Easterners!

What exactly do you mean by Christmas Spirit?

I believe that Mary and Joseph were Jewish , and Jesus was raised as a Jew?

I personally believe that much of the Christmas celebration as in secular society is nothing more than a pagan worship of materialism.
Christmas as we know it was actually banned in the mid 17th century.

As for the implied guilt in that offensive statement , the true reformed faith believes that Christ has already paid for our sins so no guilt!

If we as a nation retured to these fundamental beliefs , the issue of Muslim Militacy could be resolved , in this lad in a matter of months not years.

Granted, Mary and Jesus were from the Middle East, but when turned away from an inn, Joseph didnt sms twenty mates and intimidate the inn keeper into allowing them a room, in addition to protection money from middle eastern gangs.

more rubbish dressed as thoughtfull opininion.
We can not get away from the fact some who want us to think[ or is it not think at all?] as they do, have zero idea about the problem.
Some Muslims , some, would without doupt, harm that baby if they had the chance, care to denie that sad truth?.
It in no way demonises all Muslims to say so.
And some still use the term Australian as an insult, that in no way blames all.
How would you discribe me in a non ofensive way without saying white anglo saxon ? and why ?

i) What is the rubbish which is dressed up as thoughtful opinion?
2) What is the problem you refer to?
3)more rubbish dressed as thoughtfull opininion.
4)What baby would some Muslims harm?
5)How could the term Australian cause offense?
6)Why would one want to describe you?
7)Are you a White Anglo Saxon?
8)Can you prove that you are a white Anglo Saxon?
9)Why would one want to offend you?
10)why would one wish to discribe you in a non ofensive way without saying white anglo saxon ?

11) what was the actual point of your post?

Timkins, are you back?!

Everyone have a safe and peaceful holiday. Pray if you believe and hope if you don't...

TEAMWORKTOM ARE YOU FAIR DINKUM? come on what baby? do you wish to denie some Muslims are so oposed to Christianity they would be willing to harm that child in Bethlehem?
And can you share the head of the church I was born view the term of middle eastern opinion is raceist.
Have you lead such a sheltered life that you are unaware of the miss use of our countrys name, even after rape?
Yes this skippy, this proud non raceist Australian has truely held views SOME Lebanese Muslims , and some born here from such stock endanger my country.
Nearly as much as the blindness of some who are forever remote from reality, our future will be interesting it may change your mind.

Belly, then you will agree that drunken and stoned white supremacists under the influence of sober fascists are also a threat to our national security.

Because if you don't, I would have no hesitation in declaring you to be a racist.

Is there some problem with being a racist?

Yes, there is. It is inherently stupid and infantile to despise someone because of a matter beyond their control (such as ethnicity, race or colour). It also makes no sense to discriminate against such a person.

Racism creates artificial barriers that serve little purpose, and help to create a society based on division and not inclusion. When we start discriminating on the basis of race, we then find other excuses to divide and discriminate. And soon we won't have a society left.

Further, the Abrahamic (Judeo-Christian-Islamic) values that form the basis of our civilisation regard racism as an abomination.

irfan do not ever put words in my mouth and please do not trot the raceist theam out to stop debate.
Mate I WALKED ACROSS SYNDEYS BRIDGE TO PROVE I AM NO RACEIST, I find work for kids from minorirtys for nothing more than the grin on a face in work.
I however know its not up to me to change the raceist atitudes of far to many Lebanese Muslims.
No race invited to share our properity has ever bittened the hand that feeds it in such a way in my memory.
has reality any place in your thoughts?

Irfan,

>> Further, the Abrahamic (Judeo-Christian-Islamic) values that form the basis of our civilisation regard racism as an abomination.<<

I strongly object to you purposely or simplistically hyphenating the so called ‘islamic religion’ to God’s established covenant with humanity through Abraham in His one and only Scipture: The Bible.

A man in your position of literacy should know the vast chasm that exists between the two ideologies; and any attempt to claim similarity is a fraud and an impropriety of another’s most valued possession to further your agenda of propagation.

To use racism as a way of acceptance, integration and luring infidels to your way of life is abhorrent and repugnant.

I much prefer your using the sword than the word.

Irfan

Please explain where the racism is exhibited in Belly's post.

From what I read he merely specified SOME of a religious and national group, SOME Lebanese Muslims. There is nothing at all racist about that, in this country... Yet if people as educated as you can cast aspersions on peoples stances because they are critical of something important to you how are we ever going to be able to discuss the myriad behavioural problems associated with that particular group?

'It is inherently stupid and infantile to despise someone because of a matter beyond their control (such as ethnicity, race or colour). It also makes no sense to discriminate against such a person.'

Would you like a few quotes from the Qu'ran in respect to this statement?

One of 16 kids I am far from raceist, at times I get trouble because I try to help people who do not want help just handouts.
But while my spelling and word use is poor it is the best I can do, its no judge of IQ .
My concerns are truely held , and a great deal of Aussies from all over the world share them, raceist?rubbish!
That walk across the bridge was pure pain, my sugar problem turned my feet to heat and pain yet I finished.
Danced as Nelson Mandeala lead SA, and want one people one world ifran, can you beleave some I fear want that too? a far different world of relidgious bigotry thuo, others want a world without laws, raceism is always evil even when a minority acts raceist against the majority.

Afraid Lebs might steal more if they are punished for stealing? I have the answer for that.

When you catch a Leb stealing, cut off one hand. If you catch him stealing again, cut off the other. If you catch him nicking something with his teeth after that, cut off his head.

Likewise, if you catch a Leb rapist, cut off his wang. If his brothers don't like it, cut theirs off, too.

If the Lebs want to fight, meet them in battle with greater numbers. If the Lebs break the gun control laws, so will the Aussies.

Listen: the land down under belongs to the Aussies, and it does not belong to anybody else. But it's a universal truth about natural law that you will lose what you do not fight to keep.

Belly, read my posting again. I ssaid that if you apply one standard for one group and another for the rest of the population, I would argue you are being racist.

keith, every Abrahamic faith teaches that despising people on the basis of matters beyond their control is lunacy. In his final sermon, the Prophet Muhammad said: "No Arab is superior over a non-Arab or vice versa, and no white man is superior over a black man or vice versa. What makes you superior over another is God-consciousness".

Ifran

“I ssaid that if you apply one standard for one group and another for the rest of the population, I would argue you are being racist.

Posted by Irfan, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 11:39:27 AM"

So does that mean muslims will stop asking for special treatment and take responsibility for their reputation themselves?

YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY bout bloody time.

You have been calling us racists and brown shirts for ages. I have not seen any racism from Aussies on here, just well deserved resentment to the muslim community. I never have a problem saying I despise islam and its supporters, that’s called an opinion, a judgment etc they are privileges of a democracy.

You want equality?... "Equal rights" equals "equal responsibility"...

Or do you want more of this crap?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17661991%5E2702,00.html

"December 26, 2005
FIREBRAND Muslim cleric Mohammad Omran has blamed the Howard Government for radicalising young Muslims, claiming that demonising Islam was driving its followers towards a terrorist mentality."

Personally the victim game makes me sick, as it does most Aussies.

I don’t think its Australian's (or our PM’s)fault muslims are "hated" world wide. I think its their own.

If you think we give a stuff you have had a hard childhood… think again, we don’t. Love to see islam have equal responsibilities at last.

Wakim argues the more Lebanese youths are demonised, the more they are driven to the margins of Australian society.

Irresponsible, saying to these kids, it is not your fault you are demonised, go ahead get even further out of control.

In SW Sydney there are many immigrants from all over finding employment, getting excellent education etc. Yesterday I read about a Bosnian muslim who arrived here at age 11 with no English that has just completed his HCS with a score of 98.5%. No denial of opportunity to immigrants in south western Sydney. Even those who have come from a war far more recently. I mean didn't many of us at some stage?

The particular group in south western Sydney DOES need to address it's problems and does need to take responsibility. We tried to take responsibility and had all sort of plans but were called racist for trying. So if we can't help without insult well they damn well should do it themselves.

Meanwhile we have had immigration from Lebanon for so long and always had a special relationship with that country. I believe they even called a street in Lebanon, Parramatta Road! It is sad that SOME Australians DO demonise the whole nation and anyone who even looks middle eastern.

So YES some Lebanese Australians have extreme racist views against others, YES some Anglo Australians have extreme racist views against others. The rest of us just want the filth to be cleaned up ALL round and everyone stop blaming everyone. We are probably talking about a couple of hundred people people here in a nation of 20 million.

A plea to the Lebanese muslim community in SW Sydney. Why do you need spokespeople to talk on your behalf only to say its Australia's problem?. If so then leave it to those we have elected or the police to deal with these problems. If you want some sort of cultural representation then that carries some ownership of problems within that community. If you do choose to keep a separate leadership, please get someone that does a better job. PLEASE!

Today I was walking along Bondi Road when I heard the sound of very loud Arabic music blaring from a car approaching from behind me.

I turned and listened as the source of the music approached, so I was able to tell that I could first hear it when the car was about 100 metres away.

The car was the centre vehicle in a group of three containing young men 'of middle eastern appearance' that were waving and calling to each other as they drove past me. The fact that these young men are so insecure that they have to travel in convoy was the first thing that came to mind.

But, with their music, combined with their actions so far, they had simply self identified as probably belonging to a middle eastern culture.

A woman, mid 20s, simply dressed in the same way as any young woman in Bondi, was waiting to cross at the lights. One of the young men leant out the car window and spat at her, and made some comment in what sounded like Arabic, as they drove past.

So, Joseph Wakim, how am I supposed to approach the actions of these young men? Are they being driven to the margins of Australian society, or are they driving themselves there willingly in convoys of three or more cars? Or do you expect Australian society to accept their actions as part of the mainstream?

Hamlet,

This occurs everyday in pockets of Sydney Southwest and not always from young thugs either. I and other acquaintances have witnessed rudeness and arrogance from some tent covered women too in shopping centres and while driving.

No one should tolerate this or be on the receiving end of abuse.

Some friends went for a swim to Cronulla this weekend and felt reassured with the presence of 25 police cars there.

My question is how long will the police intend to be visible? And when will it be considered safe to get out of your car and walk on the beach?

I think there is more to it than ‘demonising’ going on here. There is a cultural peculiarity within that community that allows anti-social behaviour to flourish. From a young age these kids are surrounded by defective role models and malfunctioning families.

The fruits don’t fall too far from the tree. What goes into their minds must come out in their actions.

What we need is a Commonwealth level Enquiry into the Australian Police Force, having become to intimidated to deal with leb or islamic crime.

There are now death threats on one of the Anglo multicultural rioters from the day at Cronulla.
The leb bikie gang the Comancheros made a “peace” pact with the BraBoys… like hell it was peace, peace our way or we kill you. Leb crime has been out of control for years.

“Interfaith” talks are a cruel joke on us all. We all know what the deal is. We need to enable the police to act, an Enquiry would be a good place to start

Keith - good correction thanks for that.