Last Tuesday my son - 22 - was leaving an Inn after a night of revellery associated with a trivia night at a Brunswick Hotel - he together with two mates and two girls were accosted in the adjacent car park by a gang of 25 or so youths claiming to be Lebanese and vigourously requesting my son and friends "get off their turf".
Only too keen to please my son et al advised the gathered throng that they were leaving that minute - never the less the gang saw fit to rain a few blows onto the head and body of the lads - they managed to get into their car and leave the scene.

My son has taken a fairly sanguine approach to this incident - he felt the youths were 15 - 17, kids as he described them all het up after watching the evening news.

Other young men and women might be less philosophical about it all - so unlikely is perhaps the wrong assessment by Mr Aly - I hope he is right.

I would stop short of calling the Brunswick Coburg area an enclave but there is a high concenrtation of Muslims in the area - after all that is where the terrorist raids have taken place.

So the elements are there. The truth is most peopel will worry about property values in light of any trouble rather than the trouble itself should any arise.

Some bloke who was clearly of mediterranean or middle-eastern appearance once stalked me around a carpark in St Kilda near midnight. I didnt have a car to run to. Some friendly local guy who was aussie sorted him out [verbally] and I was able to spend the rest of the night there safely.

An Aussie saved me from probably being getting the s*&% kicked out of me and being almost left for dead in the same carpark nestled between a supermarket and Fitzroy Street. Most of the nights I spent hanging around St Kilda went pretty peacefully but. I will probably go there again not sure when sometimes I like to travel though unlike my folks, I wont have a suite in the Crown Casino Tower. I had been with this 'lebbo' [unrelated to last incident] and we ate pizza and had a shot of some home-made alcoholic spirit he had. The smell of it alone could knock out a horse. We were in an old Commodore, which he was driving.

Sneek
you son joins the Santa's of Lygon street also attacked by around 20 arab males.

WALEED..it IS happening here. and guess what.. Muslims/Lebanese/Arabs are the perpetrators and they are saying the SAME things they did in Sydney, which SPARKED that riot.

All a migrant group has to do to outrage Aussies is the above.

DONT EVER EVER say.. "You white racists started it" if it does happen here.

I strongly urge you to take to the air waves and SHAME these idiots.
Ask community leaders to find them, then ostracize them.

In fact..why not put the word out that those 'brave' Arabs who hide behind a pack of 20, could publically identify themselves and we can invite some 'whitey' to give them their wish of someone to 'bash' but it could be in a ring with some police standing by.

If we can't find any healthy young Aussie to take them, I'll volunteer and I'm 56.
Just for a sparring match of course -gloves and all, nothing personal :) might make them feel better to have a whack at a 'white scum'.

You might also word up the Arab/Muslim community, that IF....they push the right buttons, they might just regret for the rest of their possibly short lives doing it, as u just never know how some silly Aussies will react to an 'invasion' of their country. 'We' are everywhere, 'they' are in known localities, and I shudder to think of what might happen if the 'white supremacists' are successful in their use of the Cronulla footage to enlist new members.

Heaven forbid such a thing occurs.

Do you by any chance now see the folly of your own 'Christian bashing' exercise with the 2 dannys ? Do you not now see that what they said about 'Muslims trying to take over by violence' is ACTUALLY TRUE ...yet you sued them for 'villifying' the community. Well, until I see the COMMUNITY actually outing these morons, and them being treated as scum by their own, I will believe that 'their own' actually SUPPORT THEIR ACTIONS.....

Danny..and Danny.. you were right

OK, let me get this right. We have two incidents reported here. As far as we know, no police reports have been made, nor has the evidence been tested in court. Yet already some pamphlateers are handing out hate-sheets.

Me thinks the real integration problem isn't just with the thugs with Jesus-like appearance. There is also an integration problem involving a minority of Australians who think that anyone looking different to them or worshipping the same God in congregation on a different day is to be feared, hated and bashed.

People, if you child has been subject to an attack, the solution is simple - report the matter to the police. But if you expect Aussies like me to accept your argument that 1, 2 or even 10 incidents suggests that a group of 400,000 people have difficulty integrating, then you should seriously consider enrolling on a basic course in statistics.

The question is posed:
"Could riots occur in Melbourne?'
The answer is obvious.
No!, because there are not enough whites in Melbourne.

Good article Waleed,

The key elements in my view are a mix of youth problems combined with the lack of law enforcement.
The media played a divisive role by pinning a race and a faith to gang crimes rather than calling on law enforcement. Most of these ‘Arabs & Muslims’ gangs neither mix with the Arab community nor do they practice their religion. To put all the blame on Arab or Muslims communities is a poorly thought argument.

The answer lies solely in objective problem solving:
- Enforcing the law.
- On everyone.
- Give a clear ‘yellow card’ to the yellow media.

Irfan, well said. How was the holiday?

Waleed, I hope you are correct in your assessment of the situation in Melbourne. I've not heard of "middle eastern gangs" in the South East Queensland area, so hopefully that is currently a non issue here.

Surfies do get possessive sometimes but from what I have heard it is more about not wanting to share waves. Most of our reported street violence seems to be in the early hours impacting on people after a night of night clubbing. Again a law and order issue rather than any problem of one or more groups with specific issues.

BD - shame on you. Whilst you try to moderate the expression of your views your almost consistant siding against muslims, your use of conspiracy theories and general promotion of a "get them" approach speaks poorly of someone who it appears probably knows better. Some of your collegues show no signs of knowing any better, occasionally you give a hint that you understand the wrongness of what you do but then you get back into it. Very sad. You are so much more willing to attack Waleed and other muslims than you are to tackle the worst of the muslim bashing extremists. So gentle with those who want a white australia, lefties dead and moderates deported etc and so harsh with the moderate muslims. I recall reading once about people who use dishonest scales and those that bear false witness against their neighbour. I think you know the wrong that you do.

R0bert

Of course, we could all post examples of assaults we've experienced. If you want examples of hate crimes by white Australians against Arabs and Muslims in Melbourne, you can take your pick. There have been heaps. Many were reported to the police. There clearly are racist crimes in Melbourne, and in fact, that was something acknowledged in the article.

But surely there's a difference between that, and what has been happening in Sydney for the last 10 years. The Lebanese gangs in Sydney are just out of control. So are the waxhead gangs. And I genuinely think Sydney is a more racist city than Melbourne. Rioting requires a lot more than the kind of incidents being discussed on this thread - and that's all the article is saying.

A few anecdotes of hate crime do not a riot make.

And BOAZ, you're a bit of a dolt. There are plenty of Lebanese Christians in the Lebanese gangs in Sydney.

Glenwriter says:
No!, because there are not enough whites in Melbourne.

Can I ask what planet you are living on, or even what city you are living in. Melbourne has an ethnic minority and a white majority!

Anyhow, the social engineers have been a bit clever in Melbourne. In the quest to fasttrack a growing population (immigration = shortcut), they make sure there are no large numbers of one ethnic group, but rather a number of ethnic groups. This keeps the ethnic groups divided, powerless and reduced to mere consumers. Whites are alienated from one another and are also reduced to mere consumers. Therefore a RIOT is unlikely to break out here.

The funny outcome from the Sydney RIOT is the clampdown on 'white supremacists'. I mean 'white supremists' are so marginalised they are unlikely to cause a mosquito bite of a social problem. My bet is there would be so many leftist moles in those organisations they would be paralysed to do anything anyway. So that crosses out the problem of white supremacy. Ethnic gangs however are allowed to fester because of this preoccupation with the fanciful white supremacist.

The blame by the general community was being put on youths from the Lebanese Muslim community in Southern Sydney who have committed criminal atrocities against all manner of people. I haven't seen the finger pointed at the Lebanese or Muslim communities for the violence.

What both Irfan and Waleed are doing is trying to generalise the riots in Sydney into something they weren't. They were not race riots. They were people protesting the criminality of the groups of Muslim Lebanese youths and their lack of policing.

Both are simply inflammatory. They should take stock of their own prejudices.

There was only one riot. There have not been riots. Why do you need this type of erroneous deception? Most of us are looking past our own prejudices in an endeavour to understand the cause of all the violence in Sydney and are endeavouring to find solutions so the violence not only ends but is eradicated in future generations.

When you concentrate on the 'animalistic' violence on Sunday, yet blame the media, ignore or attempt to minimise (For there have been many more than the two incidents you cite) the 'animalistic' violence of the Lebanese Muslim youths over the past 10 or so years then you appear racially or culturally or religiously biased...or motivated by the prejudice of all three. If that is the case you are ... behaving racist.
The media haven't just been reporting crimes committed by Lebanese Muslim youth gangs in Sydney. They report all serious crime. Or is it that you only read the reports about Lebanese Muslim youth or those using the euphemism about Middle Eastern people?
Gangs are not foreign to Lebanese communities. History, both recent and ancient, clearly shows the nature of and the origins of the tribal behaviour of the Lebanese Arabs everywhere, not just in Sydney.
Mosques have not been burned down. Why’d you ignore the torching of Christian churches? Was that not reported widely enough?

'The worst we could do is let the riots inflame our own society.'

The exaggerations, minimisations, generalisations and prejudices conveyed in you commentary are doing just that.

I agree with Waleed that there's less likely to be a problem in Melbourne with gang warfare than in Sydney. But I reckon it's got to do with the fact that Melbourne is a more introspective place and this has a dampening effect on violence. In contrast, the more extroverted environment in Sydney has a magnifying effect when aggression is high.

I remember in the 1970s, the Lebanese gangs in Thomastown used to roam the streets and pick fights with the local "Broadie Boys" in Broadmeadows. So, there have always been gangs in Melbourne. It's just that they mostly kept it amongst themselves

Waleed,
A fine article – hopeful yet cautious. I thank [insert your version of God here] for people like you. We need more eloquent, thoughtful moderates – again like you - to bring this world to some sense.

On this note, if you happen to read this, I have been ruminating on a plan to promote the unity of all through the media. I am very interested in talking with people like you to devise a media campaign or ‘conference’ style event that the media may pick up – to help engender a little more tolerance, respect and understanding.

If you are interested, drop me a note:

unitedaustralia@hotmail.com

R0bert,
I concur completely. You and some others are all that keep me interested in this site. If it weren’t for your – and some others – balance, it would be too far on the intolerable to bother reading. Keep up the good work.

Irfan: The police reports were made - at least in the in incident I spoke of - what they did with them is any ones guess: the Age also knew of it but no reports were made - no photos, no wounds, no signs on sticks - no story.

My position is simple - there is the potential for a similar thing to happen in Melbourne - like Walled I think it is unliklely and even less likely to happen in the extreme way it did in Sydney - I dont believe it to be an issue if integration or Islamism - it is primarily men(boys)behaving badly.

There may be some that cloak their actions in religion or stupid jingoism - but some people don't need too much of an excuse to behave like idiots.

There seems to be a much more constructive dialogue happening in Melbourne at grass roots level - the local shock jocks are not as strident as their Sydney counterparts which helps.

I find it interesting that random violent acts 'from middle eastern looking youths' are considered part of a larger pattern, and are worthy of police intervention, but things like a recent fight on Melbourne rail between about thirty 19-ish white boys merely had the people in the train annoyed, rather than frightened.

It kind of seems that a climate of fear is somehow being created, where if the group of people are not predominantly white, then they are 'gang', whereas white kids are a 'group', and therefore somehow not threatening, which is weird. But then, I guess looking at recent history, that has always been the case to some extent- "dago eye-ties" "viet triads" etc. Anyway, just an observation, as a white kid.

The biggest side effect from this riot (a relatively insignificant event worldwide) is DO-GOODERerism. I mean we have posters on this very forum rallying to brainwash the masses through the media.

The riot was not about race. So all the twits with their trophy multi-culti, "we are all human" baloney, blame the anglo mentality need to address the real issue.

Two lifeguards got beaten up: this was no isolated event. It was one of many, the police did nothing and the people protested. Only problem now is the trouble makers are'nt targeted. There are no increased police patrols in Lakemba. The only people ridiculed and scrutinised are the anglo aussies. Costello said: "i consider wearing the flag as desecration when seeking to divide not unite". Good one moron, I see your comment as desecration of the real issue.

The protesters wore the flag in defiance of the Leb gangs who call them "skips" and "aussies" as an insult - not out of some white Australia mentality. The problems will continue because the latte set refuse to address the real issue - inconsistent law and order.

Melbourne has brawls between ethnic groups all the time. Go to Dandenong on a Saturday night. Multiculturalism works more smoothly in the more prosperous sections of society. The problems tend to surface in the lower socio-economic areas. These people have nothing to lose - a bit of ridicule from the pretentious powers that be means nothing.

I think islamists and their fellow victims need to remember Australia was very recently settled by convicts. It is unusual in this.

Our Convict Ancestors were themselves victims of slavery and injustice, but you will never hear POOR ME stuff, just pride in how we got up and got on and built a great country..

We don’t give a flying stuff if you have had a bad "childhood" or a "hard start", lots of us, all colours n creeds have had problems. All Aussie citizens have the rights to make what they will of their life.

To judge some as victims because they didn’t make it, is as silly as judging some as oppressors because they did.

Whining will get you no-where here. Victims are a joke to us.

As for Melbourne, it’s happening as usual there with the Santa attacks etc. Riots is just a new word for the ongoing mild(at the moment) civil war in the whole Western World

To dismiss that what we saw in Sydney recently would not happen in Melbourne is naïve to say the least.

It does not have to be on the same scale or manner. What we saw in Melbourne in recent years is much more terrifying than a few fist fights and car smashing – namely the anti-vilification law instigated by the muslim council of victoria against the two Daniels.

So what is a different kind of fight it is all part of the same religion applying just another form of jihad.

It may be helpful to re-read the quick-to-the-mark comments of our resident muslem fear diffusers Irfan and his Fellow_Human: Attack is their best defence – Denial is their only explanation.

For argument sake; Irfan writes:
>> There is also an integration problem involving a minority of Australians who think that anyone looking different to them or worshipping the same God in congregation on a different day is to be feared, hated and bashed.<<

No Irfan it is not just because you look different – I have no issues with racism – it is the different god that you worship that is giving me the chills.

And FH says:
>>Most of these ‘Arabs & Muslims’ gangs neither mix with the Arab community nor do they practice their religion.<<

Thank God (and Allah) for that – I hate to see those thugs recruited by the orthodox imams and turned into real exploding muslims.

I know this is not helping but stating the facts may awaken a few more people to the real danger Australia is facing.

I would like to see all people of goodwill in Australia focus on the truth of the situation - We cannot buy into the simplistic notion that somehow because young men of Lebanese/other ethnicity of Arabic background were involved in assaulting lifeguards, it gave anybody the right to turn on people from those communities.

The people at Cronulla would have been genuine had they held a `Reclaim the Beach for All` demonstration at Cronulla with police assistance and co-ordination of community groups. That they didn`t shows it was a case of mob hysteria and racism on the part of some of the participants. Others were drunk or simply felt threatened by the assaults but drew the wrong conclusions from them.

Let`s think before we label any anti-social or violent activity as somehow being part of any community. Every community has its problem elements and the more we focus on how supposedly it`s because of race or ethnicity, the more we create resentment that will fuel precisely that activity. As a white Australian I applaud the various Arabic communities in our country for their considered responses to the recent sad happenings in our country.

coach, it is very unlikely that you are awakening anybody to any danger. The approach taken by yourself and other fundies and various other extremists lessens the chance that any "real" threat will be seen.

Did you ever get taught the story of "The boy who cried wolf" as a child? Your's and others continual refusal to deal fairly with issues involving muslims means that for many of us anything you say is suspect. Come in with some posts which do something other than promoting your own cause, maybe speaking out against the worst of the extremists, some support of posters who do not share your views when they come under unfair attack etc. Maybe some appologies to Scout and others. Show some kind of comittment to truth rather than a determination to promote your view of the world at any cost and some of us will pay more attention to what you have to say. So if you really have something worth hearing make an effort to tidy up the wrapping.

I don't see Waleed, Irfan, Fellow_Human and friends as any kind of threat and am unlikely to do so while they are for the most part polite and reasonable and those who oppose them are generally rude, unreasonable and very unwilling to deal fairly when their own interests are involved.

R0bert

'If you get stupid people drunk enough, make them defensive and paranoid with fridge magnets and politicians' lies about terrorists, inflame them with rants from Alan Jones and shock jocks, add a bit of neo-Nazi venom and the crowd will transform into that ugly sight on the beach.'
http://www.newmatilda.com//home/getArticle.asp?NID=174&AID=1231

It might happen. What happened here is that Leb gangsters tried to take over Cronulla, attempting to drive down real estate prices by committing violence and sexual assaults. They have their own name for Cronulla, that should give you an idea.

This upset local people, who were justifyably demonstrating against this invasion. So if Melb pple don't want this to happen, don't give the gangs a chance in the first place. If pple had risen up years ago, it would have never come to this. But the loony left always stick up for their immigrant constituency - they portray anyone with these opinions as racist in order to marginalise them. And it shuts pple up.

At least now this has happened, its highlighted the problem and now everyone KNOWS ITS A REAL PROBLEM. Blimey, if even die hard socialists like Germaine Greer can see theres a problem with Lebanese gangs, so can the rest of you.

AAh, Sneeky, so we are all racist bigots now hay, Might I just take the moment to say: WE TRIED TO TELL YOU.
Your son was lucky, there are a great many that were not so lucky.

Thank you Mr.RObert,

I am so sorry to have upset your sensitive eyes and offended your sensible mind. I know how you mean so very well and I also know which side you're on.

But perhaps - please Sir - could you be more specific as to where I may have not "...Shown some kind of commitment to truth".

Instead you use phrases like "any real threat", "deal fairly", anything you say", "promote your views".

I assure Sir that these are not my views alone.

Silence and denial may be your form of medicating but not mine.

Politely yours,
Coach.

Sebby, what an insightful and truly original perspective you bring to this discussion. I just can't wait for your next post. How do you think we should protect ourselves from this Lebonese invasion up here in Qld?

Go ahead and make fun, I'm living in the real world here. For eg. a friend of mine got his head taken to by a gang of Lebs as if they were practising for the soccer world cup, while he was out doing a bit of window shopping with his fiance. This probably amuses you too, doesn't it?

Sebby259,
I have to agree with you on your observation, [see quote below] as this is what they have done in other countries where they have settled. Bankstown, Lacemba area has no beach front and if you take a swarth of territory toward the beach from there it stretches from Cronulla to Maroubra. Their agenda is to create fear in an area so that neighbours move out and real estate prices drop so they can buy property in the vacating area. They then set up local councils governed by Muslims and are able to introduce exclusive vacilities for Muslims; Like Muslim only beaches, and swimming areas.

The Muslim community in Melbourne have been more sucessful in having the Vic State Government listen to their requests for exclusive rights. Australians have assumed Australia will always hold its egalitarian character, so never questiond the introduction of Vilification laws that would be used by Muslims against common speech. But blasphemy is high on their agenda, and anyone who speaks ill [in their opinion offends them] of their prophet of holy book is guilty of violating shari'ah. If one was to analise who is vilifying who in public meetings in Victoria you would find plenty of established cases in Mosques. But Aussies do not listen to Arabic speaking Immams in mosques, and are not familiar with such divisive laws.

Quote, "It might happen. What happened here is that Leb gangsters tried to take over Cronulla, attempting to drive down real estate prices by committing violence and sexual assaults. They have their own name for Cronulla, that should give you an idea."

Waleed Aly and Irfan Usuf just create more problems for themselves and all Muslims.Just simply state that there is a violence and criminal problem within their community that needs to be fixed.There is no shame in admitting problems within your community.

Nearly every person in Sydney has witnessed,or knows of someone who has suffered at the hands of these gangs.To continue to deny this, reflects badly on all Muslims and to a degree anyone from the Middle East,which is wrong.

If you want us to trust you Waleed and Irfan,just simply acknowledge the facts and suggest ways that our Govt can remedy the situation.
Presently you have got the Iemma Govt scared and bluffed so they will only seek soft options.This will not help your community.

No,we are not like the French,we call a spade a shovel and will stare you straight in the eye and speak the truth as you shout racism.

I live in the Sutherland Shire. If you wish to avoid race riots you need the following.

Policing against any anti-social behaviour. Police in NSW are scared of Lebanese gangs because they will not tolerate being harassed by police, any sort of discipline is racist. Police end up in trouble, or under personal threat.

Protest against any behaviour that denigrates women. Female victims are always sacrificial lambs in race relations. This has to stop. Always the alpha males rears his ugly head, either to rape woman or to defend them in a punch up. Tell them women are actually bowled over by a man of substance, a gentleman.

Lets teach our children not to drink so much, friends and coffee is taking hold not quick enough!

Finally be proud of who you are and make sure society accepts that, we have shame when we should be proud. Despite all our troubles we actually have fewer problems than most nations with far less immigration.

So if you are white be proud, this nation wouldn't be so attractive to others if you didn't put in the hard yards. If you are not white, be proud, this country would not be so attractive to others if you did not put in the hard yards. If you are a Lebanese muslim gang member, time to put in the hards yards mates. rite of passage to be a true blue.

The majority of Australians are waking up to the unpleasant fact that there is a growing amount of interethnic-violence developing in our country. Most of us who come from Europe post WW2 could have predicted it. It was inevitable given the naiveté of the Australian politicians who devised the multicultural policies in this country.

I have always felt that they were being naïve. There is culture and there is nurture,- and both are not necessarily conducive to peaceful coexistence. The ethnic 'melting pot' is constantly simmering just under the surface and is easily overheated into a 'boiling pot' at the earliest provocation. And our media constantly provokes,- from cartoonists, to interviewers and commentators!

Recognising human nature means that multiculturalism, though a fine sentiment, can only work if we unite behind a core set of values, says Albrechsten (The Australian) and I agree.

Hence it matters little if some guys drink alcohol before they become violent, or before they may rape a woman in a bikini and others don't drink alcohol and keep their women covered up from head to toe. The criminal element in them, all seem to go out and fight, rape, deal in drugs and become criminals outside their homes and outside their own communities!

Those angry young men (and some women) who have a problem living in our modern, liberal, tolerant, gender-liberated and multicultural society, should try living in their parents' "old countries" for a while. It might enlighten them and straighten them out a little!
Hopefully, even the soccer-field may become a uniting force, rather than a divisive one, now that Australia is in the World Cup!

When 16,000 PLO including Syrians, Libyans, and Iranian mercinaries swooped down on the Christian town of Darmour Lebanon in 1976, screaming Allahu Akhbar, bombing, shooting, raping, hacking the totally innocent Christians, (the town was on a strategically valuable Highway) there was one incident where a Muslim Arab stood in the way of another who was about to Hack into a little girl and slaughter her.

That Arab is F.H. and IRF, so thanks you guys for standing in the way of the extremists, but the problem for us, is the other 15,998 who want to destroy us, our culture, our freedom and our independance in the form of the Gangs the police are so intimidated by, the creeping Sharia of Waleed and the ICV, Hume Council Mayor denying non Islamic food to 78% of residents, and the Extremists recently arrested.

A convoy of 60 carloads or so, is not a 'small bunch of marginalized idiots' it is a LARGE group of significant proportions specially when you consider that they were just the ones who 'acted' on their feelings that many others shared.

Verdant and Miriam have shared very accurate and balanced posts. Well done !

Law and Order 'was' the issue around 1995, now it is a far more serious problem. More like complete social breakdown.

-Solidify
...Australian Identity and Culture, Anglo/Euro with inclusiveness towards thos who integrate well.

-Strictly inform
...would be immigrants of OUR ways and Culture, with Residence for 20 trouble free years prior to citizenship granted.

-Selective Immigration,
...with those having a higher probability of anti social or anti Australian behavior (based on track record of their relatives here) on the bottom of the list.

All:

I have absolutely no idea how on earth any one could interpret any of my postings as alleging "we" or "you" are all bigots!

I have said there are elements of racism in the community at large - there is evidence of racism on these sites.

But I guess your assertion gives some weight to the argument that too many of us are acting on false assumptions about the intent of other groups - Muslims for example. If some one can read into my scribblings that some how I assume every one else is a bigot anything is possible and clearly in this particular debate along with truth logic is another casualty.

And you tried to tell me what? That there is a problem? - we all know that - the other problem is there is a raging debate as to what the root cause is.

But I do contend it is not based on some world wide scheme nurtured in the heart of Muslims to take over the world or this country as is so often touted on these pages.

People are expending a lot of energy in laying the blame at the feet of particular ethnic groups and religions - and don't forget the left; for some here they arre the cuase of all our maladies from global warming to racial violence and the loss of the Ashes.

And yes my son was lucky.

And on the note to any one who cares to read this have a good Christmas if Christmas is what you want.

sneek,
methinks he doth protest too much

Waleed has an ulterior motive which is divide and conquer - only a complete moron or a cunning propagandist would allude to "RIOTS" (plural) - when there was little more than a pub brawl (singular) especially when a few of those bashed Lebs actually provoked the crowd. The so- called bashing of a lebanese woman was a teen cat fight that the 16 year old Aussie girl won. Also Waleed mentions "Surfer gangs" and holds them in the same position as the Leb ones. There are no surfer gangs except the so-called "bra boys" who quickly surrended to the lebs not just tough wannabe comancheros but also a figure straight out of the Bin Laden jihad catalogue. One of the Comancheros even mentioned (deliberately threaten Australian society) that he hasn't seen so many guns since beirut. Well nice of the police to arrest the aussie for carying a tree branch but allowing Lebs to walk around with their Glocks. I don't see any "surfer gangs" going into bankstown and smashing up cars and any arab they find and putting baseball bats to the heads of women dining on a kebab let alone raping them for being leb sluts.

Waleed believes that everyone should convert to Islam and then there would be honest government and scrupulous adherence to Sharia (Islamic law.) Unfortunately, there are no working examples of this, either currently or historically. But when you're on a Mission From God, you don’t need a working example. Gods Word is enough.

I do not like denigrating the police, they have an extremely difficult job but why was the trouble at Crunulla and other places permitted to simmer so long? Ten years of insults and slurs is ten years too long and if the police were not capable of controlling the trouble makers the government should have taken over the role.
From all accounts the Lebanese gangs consider themselves above the law. Who is responsible for this attitude? I do not blame them, young people need guidelines, it is evident they have not been given them.
All gangs who commit crimes should be disbanded-by the military if no one else can do it.
And all youth needs to know the law is to be respected---if the law is worthy of it.

I speak on behalf of my family and my friends who are all lebenese as I am and the majority of us were born in Australia, went to public schools, and were taught to live in a country that ensured that no one in it would starve, or be left in the streets unless we made the wrong decisions and i appreciate it.
Belive me when i say this, I think Australia is the best country in the world although i think if we continue to hate one another then nothing will ever be resolved.
I myself have been running my own restaurant in an area where the majority of its population are of australian decent and personally speaking i love the fact, I find them to be good people and easy to get along with, MY BEST FRIEND IS 1000000% Australian, and we are civilised towards eachtoher and life itself.
Sure Sydney has its problems, I could tell you that the lebenese gangs there are way out of control but like posted earlier, I think this is a law an order issue. You know i've heard of police in Sydney being scared of these people, and that in itself tells me that there is a serous issue going on here.
You know whats very dissappointing though, is the fact that people are starting to take this out on religion, I am Muslim myself and let me tell you the QURAN does in no way encourage violence, or murder, or suicide bombing, or riots in Sydney, or gangs.
These crimes arent being committed by practising or faithfull muslims, they are simply being committed by careless, thoughtless and stupid people, who have no meaning in life.
So why are people taking this way too far?
Would it be fair if i was to attack an australian decented person because Martin Bryant who was Australian killed 35 people in Tasmania in 1996, or perhaps attack an Italian person because of the MAFIA. Its not right.......

Zefstar (spelling?) quite blindly asserts that Islam is a peaceful religion. One must certainly direct your attention to the Quran where arguably Islam exists in its purist form, and the numerous references to violence, terror and abhorrant human behavior, which beg the question, where does this inherent peacefulness originate? Surely not in the imaginations of many ill informed and purely superficially islamic Australians engaged in the flawed defence of the staple of 7th century Arab culture? Might I also direct your attention to the spread of Islam through the middle east, africa and europe, which was accomplished by none other then war! Im not at all attributing the racial violence in Sydney to islam but there is certainly anecdotal evidence to the contray.

I unfortunetely can't tell you where islam originates, because i don't believe it does, just like anything, you have your followers, and you have the people who dont wish to follow.
Can you tell me where Law originates?
I dont think it possibly could originate anywhere because no matter where you go, theres always gonna be people, whether its aussies, lebos, greeks, anyone, there's always gonna be those who will not obide by it, and this is what we are faced with unfortunetely.
You said "Im not at all attributing the racial violence in Sydney to islam but there is certainly anecdotal evidence to the contray."
Where is that evidence, lebenese people aren't all muslim, they are a mixture, it has nothing to do with islam, i thought it was about the way the minority of the lebenese people in Australia were acting towards others.
No matter what, unfortunetely Australia will never grow out of racism, its always gonna be here, where its lebenese, or asians, or Anoriginals.

Dear Zeftstar [PART1]
firstly, welcome to OLO !
I've not seen any post from you before, so your interaction is appreciated.
You need to appreciate though, many of us here speak with considerable passion, and this might be a bit disconcerting for you.

Regarding "Islam is a religion of peace". Many here will agree, and many others will disagree. I think it is more accurate to say as follows:
"Islam, as practiced by most Muslims in Australia, is peaceful" Yes, you do have the ratbag fringe of offspring among your community, as we do in ours. And of course, many of those 'ratbag' element are certainly not what could be called 'practicing Muslims'.

That said, I hope you will appreciate how we percieve and view Islam from an Australian cultural perspective. We can view it through the lenz of 'Those Muslims we have encountered' and/or 'Islam as a doctrine and a history'

On the first way, I'll share with you a story. If your local council came out with a new rule as follows: "All people attending local council functions MUST eat haram food" how would u feel ? Welcome ? I doubt it. So putting this the other way around "No Haram food can be served at local council meetings" when this is a specifically "Islamic(and Jewish)" food law. How do you think Ausses who love their ham sandwiches will react to such a rule ? I can tell you. OUTRAGE.

This happened in Melbourne. The percentage of Muslims in that community was approx 13% but the mayor (a Muslim) was elected in good faith by the residents on his 'policy'. The last thing they expected was for 'Sharia' law to be imposed on their 'meet the council' functions. So, this is an example of 'Muslims' we encounter in daily life. Not "all" are like this, but it is indicative of a mentality which seeks to advantage itself and disadvantage others on the grounds of religion/race.

continued....

Zefstar,

I noted with particular interest your claims that the violent Lebanse youth in Sydney were A: '(non)practising or faithfull muslims, they are simply being committed by careless, thoughtless and stupid people, who have no meaning in life'.
B:'lebenese people aren't all muslim, they are a mixture, it has nothing to do with islam'.

Now the evidence is that the vast majority of violent behaviour committed in Sydney is by mobs of lebanese youth who have some connection with Islam.

Tell me, doesn't claiming these people are not muslims allow you to condemn their behaviour outright. For isn't there a tenet within your religion that demands Muslim Solidarity ahead of solidarity with those who are non-muslim?

Since you claim these lebanese thugs are not muslims then why don't you condemn outright, clearly and unequivocally, the racist rapes, the mob bashings, the torching of christian churches, the bashing of surf-lifesavers, the taunting of women who do not dress in the muslim mode and finally the gathering of these non-Mulism at Lakemba mosque before they set out for non-muslim 'revenge attacks?

Just so you get the picture, the thugs who rioted and set upon innocent people at Cronnulla were more than likely christan in upbringing and their actions were a disgrace. They bought shame upon Australia, their beliefs, their families and themselves and I roundly condemn them. See no apologies, no excuses and no denials that they were probably not christian anglo youth.

Come on follow my lead...you do as I have done.

BD, I appreciated the approach taken in that last post. More of that and this place will be a lot more pleasant.

The example of the local council raises some interesting issues. Personally I'm opposed to religious beliefs being imposed on those that don't share those beliefs and share some of your outrage about that particular action, on the other hand while I enjoy the odd ham sandwich I don't really give a toss if it is on a particular menu or not. It is more an issue of principle that the specific consequences of that action. I'm guessing that the odd free ham sandwich at a "meet the council" function is not a major driving force in your life.

I struggle to see where the mayors actions are really any different to those of anybody else who seeks to limit the freedoms of others because of their own beliefs. Would you be similarly outraged at a mayor who let their own beliefs come into play in the approval process for a sex shop?

My understanding is that you support the idea of people bringing their religious beliefs to public roles they may hold. Part of the very concept of Family First seems to be to bring christian values and beliefs to australian politics. I'm assuming that they (along with every other person) will to some extent act on their own beliefs about right or wrong. Former Sennator Harradine certainly appeared to do so on a regular basis. Are the mayors actions any worse than those of Senator Harradine who I gather was a major player in the RU486 restrictions.

At the core of this issue is wether or not you believe that religious beliefs (and the choices that flow from them) should be imposed on others. Personally I think not but know that is unlikely to ever truly be the case. Maybe we need some reinforcement of the idea of seperation of church and state.

R0bert

Is that application for the Sex shop in David's local council area likely to be received with an open mind? Hardly.
Application for one in a council dominated by practicising Christians is likely to be approved, for it is likely the will of the majority would be acted upon.

Many of the issues Senator Harradine involved his Christian beliefs in were right to life issues. He'd be in alignment with Islamic teaching on those as well. They weren't issues relating to sandwiches.

But Halal sandwiches instead of ham sandwiches is downright silly. Why don't vegetarian Mayors ban Meat sandwiches?

How bloody stupid. If that's the nature of the smallmindedness of the Mayor, then he'll get what he deserves. Voters will give him an environment where he can demand and get all the halal whenever he wants and if he still wants to visit the council then he should be given a choice... Ham and/or halal and/or non halal.

Zefstar, no doubt as a learned and practicing muslim one would know the origins of the Quran and of Islam itself, your ignorance of this proves my argument. One might describe the gathering of 'Lebanese' outside the Lakemba Mosque, the firebombimg of churches and shootings at christian gatherings as anecdotal. Furthermore, you have failed to even contest my argumnts of the underlying hate in Islam, might it be that your knowledge of Islam is dangerously small?

You don't need to study the Koran to know theres something wrong with it.

All you need to do, is open your eyes - every country where its practised is ridden by war and poverty. No more needs to be said really.

What i don't understand, is all these Muslims coming from strife torn places want to bring the very same thing that stuffed their own country with them. In Australia we don't display overt forms of religion, we might go to church on Sunday or we may not, but we don't feel the need to tell everyone about it by wearing it on our sleeves, its not the Australian way. We've learned others lessons, we know that displays of fervent regilion destabilising, so in the interests of community harmony we've evolved to more understated way of practising but not sacrificing our religion.

Now, if Muslims want to cover their women from head to toe, or grow big bushed beards, they should expected to be stared at. After all, they are making a statement about themselves. And conversely, a statement about the rest of us. For eg, Muslim women wear the hijab bcos they its modest to do so. That begs the question, what do u think of the rest of us who don't? If you say "Oh no I don't think badly of you", thats BS - cos then you wouldn't feel the need to wear it in the first place. Right

An interesting contribution:
Andrew Fraser on Cronalla Riots:
http://www.vdare.com/misc/051221_fraser.htm

Waleed, surely by now even you have figured it out.

You can put a middle-eastern enclave in the middle of Australia and eventually it will become a major crime center, and yes one day, God willing, they will naturally riot and cause racial strife, like the good little ethnodrone that they are.

The real problem is this : rather than acknowledge that his(Waleed) community has a BIG PROBLEM with respecting others and treating others as equals by saying so in the media, all they(the Waleeds and Keysar Trads) do is blame everything on Westerners.

I wonder, would the western world really have eradicated nazism and KKKness if similarly, our leaders had just ignored it, and on a whole our populace even supported it?

Well, the fact that they do ignore it and constantly deflect blame is a clear sympton that they are lightyears from solving their racism issues, so it must be up to us as fellow humans and countrymen to help them overcome this.

The so-called "left" claim to care about people. They care more about how they "may be percieved" than any actual real people or their problems.

I agree with your Mathew S, you are right, oh so right, very right, right, just right, 100 percent correct. Right on. I agree. Absolutely.

Right, now we got that cleared up and out of the way. Who's left?

Just another little anecdote.The other day I was talking to a teacher who used to teach in the Southwest of Sydney with high Muslim populations and she was telling me how bigoted Asssies have become.She also told me how she used to listen to their stories in class whilst pretending to be reading a book of the Skippy Bashing escapdes they had carried out using base ball bats.

Doesn't this leftist mentality fascinate you?We are again the racists and the poor oppressed Middle Eastern gangs need the comfort of their base ball bats and some good old fashion "skippy bashing" to vent their frustrations.

I've heard many an Aussie say"I never considered my self a racist until now with all this Middle Eastern crime and the denegration of our culture."By allowing this to go on we are creating a social time bomb that will end in civil war.When fear and hate prevails so will the racial hatred.Who might we ask is responsible for this mess?

Bleached Bones on a Sunlit Beach

Sitting under a clear dark southern sky
Looking at a cross most sacred to the eye,
Pondering a crescent moon about to die;
Nay, next phase, in hope, a whole new pie.

In between the constant moving mix
Of lunar and stars the ages usually fix,
The fears and worries of a past reflex,
Now need reconcile bow and genuflect.

T'is a tiresome trouble of centuries past.
Arising in enlightened age, much aghast.
The mores of communities in differ repast,
Unfair and closed or egalitarian and vast?

Sitting under a clear dark southern sky
Looking at a cross most sacred to the eye
Pondering how fairness was cast in our die
By generations legacy left that does not lie.

The contrast of places imbibed in fear,
Of all that grand life provides so dear.
Other places far removed from the near.
The refuge offered but beliefs do sneer.

T’is a tiresome trouble of centuries past,
Arising in enlightened age; much aghast.
The blunted vision of prophecy ill asked,
To compromise the vision of a guided past.

Sitting under a clear dark southern sky
Looking at a cross most sacred to the eye
The crescent of false belief will pass us by
Our world of hope and faith will never die.

The scourge of dogma and bitter hate,
We’ve learned to reject, not just of late,
For we’ve travelled the paths mostly, mate,
And rejected them as an unfortunate fate.

We of the clear cross in the southern sky
Wondrous of all alternative we’ve come by.
One condition our egalitarianism is left undrowned
Like sacred Anzac bones in special Muslim groun

Zefstar, this is off topic but as you're a Lebanese Muslim I would like your feedback on this.

I worked for the National Parks for over seven years.

One of my jobs was to patrol the parks, checking tickets and such.

In two particular parks, frequented by predominantly Lebanese Muslim families, there were well sign posted pay and display machines where one could buy a ticket.

Whenever I went to these parks on busy days not one muslim vehicle would display a ticket. I knew they belonged to muslims because they always advertised the fact, they either had a medalion with allah akbar written in arabic, muslim prayer beads or a minature koran hanging off the rear view mirror. Also when I began recording details a large group of mid eastern males would start moving towards me.

I'd often park by the ticket machine and watch as muslim vehicle after muslim vehicle, slowed, looked at the machine and drove off, never did I see one pay.

Almost everyone else paid, among the muslims there was always 100% non-compliance, that's hundreds of vehicles every weekend.

They drove nice cars and sometimes had jetskis in tow, they weren't poor and not all of them had pension cards so they needed tickets. To me this says a lot about a particular culture. Can you give me your opinion on this? Why do they do it?

Irfan, Waleed, FH any answers?

Merry Christmas everyone.

have to be quick, girlfriend is waiting for me for christmas dinner.
Anyway here is my feedback on your topic, i think if what you are saying is entirely true, then its more a problem of law enforcement, what you say is that you had the authority to do something to these people, for breaking the laws of the parks, but it seems like you didnt because large groups of them came towards you.
I live in melbourne myself and i can think of 2 occasions where i didnt pay for parking cause i was only gonna be one minute or because the parking meter had expired and i recieved penalties for both circumstances, the parking office wasn't shy towaqrds me cause i looked middle-eastern, and to be honesti learnt my lesson from such experiences, while im a person who always pays for his parking, i wont stop the car anywhere anymore, unless i am permitted to do so, and what i say to you is if you enforced your duties towards these people who 'never paid', i think the problem would have gone away

Have a very merry Christmas, Zefstar, perhaps you'll have time over the Christmas break or in the new year to respond to my previous post.

Sorry for my delay Keith, i will respond to you in what i think is accurate in my opinion.
I would just like to point out to people that while i am middle eastern myself, I do not doubt that there is a problem with some of the youth that is out there, i myself have been in situations with some of them myself, but at the same time i have also been in threatning situations with other races.
Now as far as it goes for your ham sandwiches at council meetings, I am very familiar with that topic. That specific topic has also affected people n areas such as Fawkner and Broadmeadows, eg.. KFC in Fawker does not sell any pork products at all, whether or not all other stores do, and Broadmeadows Shopping Centre at one stage, and i'm not to sure if this is still being enforced, did not allow the sale of any pork products. At first when I heard these new regulations, I myself thought it was very unfair to the rest off the community who are permitted to eat these foods, and I still do, but the simple fact of it is, you cant blame the muslims for enforcing such rules. This was all Marketing, it's a way to appeal to the community who in these specific areas, the majority are muslims.Hope you all had a safe and Merry Christmas.

Zefstar

Thanks for your answer. We weren't allowed and it was virtually impossible to fine them, we could only issue late payment notices which were no more than the price of a ticket. In the end the simplest method was to put someone at the gatehouse.

However we did fine when vehicles blocked emergency access gates and clearways. A lone mid eastern man would often not put up much of a arguement. As the numbers rose then the threats began.

The point I'm making is that when the gate was unmanned most people still paid for their ticket except for them. Often they were family people and that's not a good role model for their kids. Other visitors noticed that they weren't buying tickets too, which doesn't endear the public any further to them.

Zefstar

I think you missed my point. It would be very cowardly if you had done so on purpose.

My post was about the groups of Lebanese Muslims youths in Sydney.

I'll repost it for you so that there can be no error or misunderstanding.

'Zefstar,

I noted with particular interest your claims that the violent Lebanse youth in Sydney were A: '(non)practising or faithfull muslims, they are simply being committed by careless, thoughtless and stupid people, who have no meaning in life'.
B:'lebenese people aren't all muslim, they are a mixture, it has nothing to do with islam'.

Now the evidence is that the vast majority of violent behaviour committed in Sydney is by mobs of lebanese youth who have some connection with Islam.

Tell me, doesn't claiming these people are not muslims allow you to condemn their behaviour outright. For isn't there a tenet within your religion that demands Muslim Solidarity ahead of solidarity with those who are non-muslim?

Since you claim these lebanese thugs are not muslims then why don't you condemn outright, clearly and unequivocally, the racist rapes, the mob bashings, the torching of christian churches, the bashing of surf-lifesavers, the taunting of women who do not dress in the muslim mode and finally the gathering of these non-Mulism at Lakemba mosque before they set out for non-muslim 'revenge attacks?

Just so you get the picture, the thugs who rioted and set upon innocent people at Cronnulla were more than likely christan in upbringing and their actions were a disgrace. They bought shame upon Australia, their beliefs, their families and themselves and I roundly condemn them. See no apologies, no excuses and no denials that they were probably not christian anglo youth.

Come on follow my lead...you do as I have done.

Posted by keith, Friday, 23 December 2005 7:58:14 AM'

Clear?

Got a bit of music here for Aussies to celebrate with after they win some fights. (And good luck with that.)

No Fear - Victory Day - 4.4 meg
http://www.whitestruggle.net/NoFearVictoryDay.mp3

Prussian Blue - Ocean of Warriors - 3.4 meg
http://savefile.com/files.php?fid=8649610

Free downloads, no signup hassles, no spam will result, just get the files and play them.

By the way, Lynx and Lamb Gaede dedicated their recording of Ocean of Warriors to the Sydney 5000, as sort of a musical salute to fellow patriots. Here's a couple of pictures.

http://jabpage.org/images/pbsingers.jpg
http://jabpage.org/images/llpark.jpg

Jenab,we don't need white supremacists groups like yours to hijack and cloud the issue.This just plays right into the hands of the left wing morons who created this mess in the first place.

Every race has it's good and bad genes and we just want some say in the quality of immigrant that has been allowed into our country regardless of skin colour.

We have serious problems with only parts of the Lebanese culture who came from the lawless war torn regions of Lebanon,who have no respest for us or our laws.All we get is denial from their community and our state socialists Iemma Govt that deny any problem exists at all.

The ideal of multiculturalism has tried to supress and brow beat the predominant Anglo culture here into submission.They have just dispensed with the philosophy of intergration and respect for the idea of one unified country.This is why we are now facing such racial unrest.Sections of the Muslim community are just as racist as many of our white sumpracist groups.

We don't need the lunatic left or the nutter white supremacists pushing their own barrows of influence and power to polarise people in this debate.

Reasonable and sensible people can resolve this problem from all parts of the racial and religious divides.

Let's have a warts and all analysis,but exclude the extremists who want anarchy.

Arjay, thanks. Very much in agreement that the extreme ends of this debate make it that much harder for the rest of us to work towards real solutions. Solutions that allow those who follow our laws and show some respect towards other cultures to live happy and healthy lives here whilst doing something practical to deal with those who choose to show their lack of willingness to be a part of this great nation.

R0bert

Hey Zefstar

I'm still waiting for your response...but you know as well as I that the tenets of your religion preclude you from following my example. For if you condemn those Lebanese Muslim youth you are seen to be siding with Infidals against Muslims. And that in your religion is a major no no.

Sydney is more racist than Melboure, goody, how observant, may I tell you I live on the Bankstown line in inner west Sydney, there are certain area's that I cannot go because of racism by the arab community, or Lebanese whatever, (though not all Lebanese are Arabs) why is it that people always refer to white people being racist, really it is so over used by this multi-culti social crimials, just walk a mile in other people's shoes, I get called a skippy white trash, once I threatened sexually, my friend and I went to Lakemba and was tail gated by a group of Middle Eastern men all the way out of the suburb.
There has been no arrests for the reprisals after Dec12th, they burnt down a church, shoot up a kids school, stabbed a man in the back, not to mention all the carnage in Maroubra and other suburbs, they got away with this. Wow, so a few neo-nazi's got arrested, some bloke for waving a tree branch few other dills, and the cops stopped a group of heaps of these Leb's and converscated weapons, then let them go, softly, softly.
They are running the streets, in the mean time, we are the racist's the intolerant ones. The Left, and the politicians and media, and these Lebanese mens parents and muffti's have a lot to answer to. So Australia continue to be tolerant while your country is being taken from under your very nose, and we cop the blame because we are too tolerant.

There is no ham sandwich ban at Hume Council in Victoria.