James,
What a very sad story about your mother's son.
She could have given you a father because you have learned not even to want Father Christmas.

No matter what the studies say pursing a life of materialism seem to be exactly what most of us drive for. The churches that have embraced this are the ones doing okay (Hillsong and the like). Having been brought up in a secular house hold xmas is for kids with only children getting gifts and we don't exchange cards either.

But in the end how do you measure happiness it’s all so subjective. Sure a poor family may well be a tighter family group then a rich family. Ask a family that’s gone from one to the other and you won’t find many that want to be poor.

James
I agree that Christmas has become for many just a huge financial burden which will take months to pay off.

I agree that it would be far better if we could all make a special effort at Christmas to be more tolerant, loving and compassionate.

I do not agree that the government should be asked to pass laws to bring about the true spirit of Christmas.

The government is not likely to encourage people to think of peace and love (we may even start to demand that troops be brought home from Iraq and Afghanistan).
We (the people) must decide that the spirit of Christmas needs to be revived and do something about it as your mother has done.

I love the conclusions that come out of these happiness studies even when they are in jest. Materialism doesn't bring happiness so lets ban Santa! That's a non-sequitur if ever i heard one.

Besides, banning Santa will just result in new Christmas icons popping up like Jojoy the Christmas Kangaroo who gives out presents from her pouch or something.

"Our target must be Santa Claus. Yes, while he is a jolly old fellow with a stomach that wobbles like jelly, if we are to pursue a Christmas that is more conducive to human happiness, Santa Claus must go. Santa Claus is largely responsible for the materialistic circus that Christmas has become. These days, as early as October, Santa gets wheeled out and his head is thrown on commercials advertising anything from bras to the latest in barbeque technology. Toy companies can get away with associating a new glow-in-the-dark talking machete with Christmas not because of some groovy picture of Christ, but because of Santa. As Kasser and Sheldon write in their paper, Santa is a secular version of Christ “whose realm is that of material abundance”."

Amen brother, preach it! (LOL)

I have always thought that the debate on whether or not Christmas has anything to do with Christ has missed out on the point that Santa Claus has NOTHING to Christmas! Santa, as we now know him, was a clever marketing ploy created by Coca-Cola. All the anti-Coke/McDonalds/Nike people should stand together with Christians and other religious people to see this man gone!

But yes, I do think illegalising Santa is going a little too far.

Merry Christmas everyone!

I'll vote for you James. Can't remember the last time I celebrated christmas in any form, except in business. I don't think it is even for kids as it just reinforces illusions in their minds. Kids are much happier when they are in reality in the big world, they spend their private time in their dreams and imaginings. Maybe this forced fantasy could have something to do with why xmas also creates the most domesic violence, holiday acccidents and road accidents.

Everyone slips into fantasy mode and when the fantasy doesn't play out, xmas is a drag again.

Only trouble is, what would humanity do then. lets have two days as couch potato's, now shops. no drivng, no one goes anywhere, just internet and phone parties. No accidents, no road deaths, now BBQ blowups, no holiday drownings, save money for holidays, no cooking. Ban everything for two days, except navel staring and nose picking.

I half expected Johnie to recommend we torture the Santa Clauses if his last piece on the Ammnedment to the Victorian Crimes Act is anything to go on (OLO 17th November) - I think the ladds underwear might be a bit too tight.

Santa and the associated Hoopla is fair game though for criticism - personally I eschew Christams festivities - at least the tiresome prodromal meet and greet crap that leads up the the actual day -

We are as guilty as the next family of the focus on material stuff to a point but as the family has aged and engaged in the post VCE diaspora the afflicts many families in rural areas the focus has changed to one of family community and the Christian roots of the celebration.

A ban will not achieve much - the red bastard will just go under ground - hidden Santas caves will spirng up in all manner of unsavoury places where young mums can spirit their wide eyed kids to see the old fella in secret.

We will grow out of Santa - the signs are already there.

Pt One.
A Christmas play of Shakespearian magnitude (absurd ditty).
Author’s note: Please remember Coleridge’s words. “Suspend your disbelief.” In other words use ya’ f*cking imagination.
Scene 1 Empty stage, adoring audience wait in anticipation of at last seeing the works of the one and only Rancid the Knight of Mad Countenance. He who is renowned across this brown land for his knight errantry in the face of unrelenting evil.

Play starts with lone figure centre stage.
“Tis’ I Rancid the Sad Knight with incontinence.”
A voice from off stage calls. “Pssst. It’s knight of Sad Countenance ya’ f*cking dipsh*t.”)
Rancid continues: Yes. It is I ya’ f*cking dipsh*t.”
Rancid curses and rushes off stage and hits someone.
Rancid: “I am here to show you with the aid of marvellous, indeed, miraculous technology, of the sad arrest of a villainous, scurrilous character Santa Claus.
“Sanchoe Panzy bring henceforth to me my video machine.”
A chubby little fellow (with a black eye) scoots onto the stage on a razor scooter and hands Rancid a camera. Get thee away with ye’ razor named Dupple off this stage ye’ dolt. Rancid chases Sanchoe off stage administering many blows around his head on the way.
Video is plugged in and a giant screen lights up behind Rancid who leaves the stage waving towards the screen saying: “And here is the sad misadventure that befell Don da la Santa when he tried to deliver toys to the fair children of Cronulla.
The audience sees the events as if they are using a hand held video. The video is ground level (dirty streets feel), blue lights flashing in the distance (Sydney feel), we move closer to see two patrol cars and some police officers. The camera swoops to the front of the patrol car and situates itself on the shoulder of Constable Wasted Nights who is facing the foot path talking into his radio. Through his eyes we survey the scene. Santa’s reindeer and his carriage is parked against the curb flanked by police cars. Santa is laying face down and handcuffed

Pt Two. Constable Sicofitall is restraining Santa. The camera leaves Constable Wasted Nights and zooms to the crowd milling around the reindeer. They’re taunting Rudolph. Rudolph is whispering. “Just avert thine eyes and ignore them. They’ll go away.”
Vixen yells f*ck dat let’s get ‘em.” The reindeer buck and jump but Constable Handsoff eventually settles them down.”
Camera is back looking through Constable Wasted’s eyes. He radios in, as the camera pans to Santa’s carriage. “We’ve got a scary one here.” We see Constable Notagain unwrapping presents. “His vehicle is full of replica guns and military equipment.
“And these X box things, which, I’m told, desensitise kids to others feelings whilst teaching them how to kill.”
“We are going to confiscate them and charge Santa under the terrorism laws.” “What’s that Sir? If we confiscate them there will be riot in Cronulla?
“Problem solved Sir. We have arranged to have all the weaponry replaced with skateboards and razor scooters.
“Then they can learn the truth about pain the logical way.”
END.
Screen goes black and Rancid enters the stage, as audience, cheering madly, rises to give our hero a standing ovation.
Rancid responds: “I bid you all farewell and a Merry Christmas. Thank you. Thank you”
Rancid leaves the stage, steps on a discarded skateboard; totally out of control, he rides the thing down a set of stairs; grinds down a railing; ollies off that onto four wheels; shoots across the car park and smashes into the side of Constable Care’s patrol car; flies over the bonnet; smashes into Constable Care who, standing driver’s side front, turns to see what all the noise is only to be smacked head-on by low-flying Rancid. They both crash to the ground. Eyeball to eyeball they lay there. Rancid quietly says: “Merry Christmas Officer Care.” Constable gives off a sigh that can be heard beyond Cronulla’s beaches. “Same to you mate. Now get off me and let’s go.”
And that night through the bars I gazed at the stars (with Santa). He says Merry Christmas (need). Merry Christmas (hacksaw) from Rancitas (now). (Christ)

James and posters

I had a chat with Santa last night. We decided that we are having a shared gift - worth no more than $50.00.

For Christmas lunch we are going fishing on the Maroochy River in our faithful old "tinnie" - armed with a few dozen oysters, half a watermelon and a bottle of champagne. What more d'ya want in life eh?

Our evening meal will be fresh local prawns and local mud crabs - just the two of us.

We are as broke as broke can be in the dollar sense - but not in spirit. I make individualised cards and gifts. I love doing it, and people love receiving them.

Our special gift this year is for a single mother who has four young kids (all have behavioural problems - including Autism and ADHD) - three of whom have been victims of their father's abuse.

We are having the oldest boy (9 years of age) stay with us for a week. We will go fishing, swimming, and crabbing. And we will have heaps of BBQs. What more d'ya really want in life eh? We will have heaps of good hearted fun.

But then, come to think of it. That's how I have always been. Commercialism has never touched me - and I am damned if I'm gonna give up on believing in Santa! I'm still gonna put my old white pillow case out - ya never know, I might get a little surprise!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
Cheers
Kay

James McConvill is correct.

Presents are cosmetic. Shallow.

For the best gift, we should look to the story of Saint Nicholas... he gave - as he was a wealthy man - money thrice to a poor man whose daughters needed a dowry, but he couldn't afford it, and it looked like they might end up in prostitution. That's a true gift. Inspired by this, Nuns in Europe would give women's stockings full of wholesome foods - like nuts, dried meats and fruits - to the poor. That tradition still continues in many areas of Europe, such as southern Italy. My grandfather, ever Christmas, tells me about when he would help the nuns deliver the stockings of food - oranges, chestnuts, salamis and fortified wine - to the poor families, even though he was poorer than them.

Gift-giving isn't the problem, it's how we give them, and how they are receiving. Giving should be, of course to our families - who can deny the joy of a child receiving a gift - but that shouldn't go to the current extremes. Giving should be to our neighbours, people in the community, and those with whom we associate but do not know. Finally, and most importantly, giving should be to the needed and unexpecting, for it is there that the story of Saint Nick and Jesus' birth correlate... a gift given undemanded to all, especially the most needy, with no demands of return, to be done with as we wish... whether that gift is a book, a bottle of wine, a card, or the son of God. In giving gifts we become Godlike, but we must ensure that our other hand is firmly behind our backs.

DFXK

What a delightful post. Thank you. Did you see mine above?

I have just had another chat with Santa. He is coming here with thousands of dollars worth of spirit (not the liquid kind). Our $50.oo commitment to each other is gonna be a rort!

I hope that you and your family and friends have a happy, joyful and peaceful Christmas.

Cheers
Kay

An excellent idea in principle, although I submit a modification. It is, quite simply, this: Ban the commercial Santa (or 'Satan' if you prefer) but allow the 'real' Santa to remain. Without Santa, do you really suppose that I would have experienced those childhood days when I received that rusty BMX, the asbestos ridden percussion drum (complete with treated-pine drum-sticks) or that boogie board that lasted a full eight waves before snapping in two? The nature of the gift was irrelevant (a pudding would have been sufficient), it was the magic of the gift's arrival that gave me the most happiness. Remove Santa from the commercial world or from any activity engaged in to further a commercial objective so that Santa will no longer be the distorted cruel posterboy of evil corporate minds who "home delivers for free", but rather an association with childhood years that enables people to look back and smile at the world they used to live in and to see more clearly where they are now.

By way of postscript, I make reference to a recent commentator and the apparent (by way of deduction), quote, "want" that jolly Father Christmas in him evokes. Oh yes, clearly it is all there - the long black leather boots, the uniform all in red, the fluffy white bunny trimmings. However I must (and indeed tentatively) suggest that this laundry is best aired in more "specific" forums.

Love, kisses, Christmas wishes,

yes.. the true spirit of Christmas.. something we should all strive for and to understand.

St Nicolaus story is a touching one, but I think we should dig behind that to the fact that he was described as 'Saint'....Nic.. i.e. He was epitomizing something else than simply human generosity.

Christ....mass of course is clearly the celebration of the birth of Christ. But as pointed out, in a considerably secular society, we have also focused on the 'tame' Santa "Now children, have you been good this year" kind of thing. If we had no other deeper idea to celebrate, this would indeed be a very useful and positive cultural myth.

The birth of Christ is truly something historically special. We date our calender from his life. But the concept of God incarnate as man, entering to the world we live in, sharing our struggles and trials, and identifying with us in humanity, is the ultimate 'reaching out' to others.

For me, as the day draws nearer, (tomorrow) the less I feel like being combative, digging my heels in, and 'winning'. If a terrorist put a gun to my head, my mood is more like 'go for it, and blessings on u' rather than anything else. The sense of closeness to the Almighty, is far greater than the fear of death. If I could embrace the whole list of 'user index' including even those who have been my harshest critics I would. 'Peace, and good will to all men'. First the peace, through reconciling with God, then, good will to all.
Its a natural consequence, an outworking of the inner experience.

Yes, I know :) "Some of us don't NEED that to be generous to others" well, neither do I, but it's not about need, its about something far more positive.
Quite apart from the Spiritual and Christ birth aspects of Christmas, it does indeed touch us at our most fundamental cultural and family roots.

I'm about to embark on a long journey by car, just in case for reasons unexpected, I don't make it back, Love to you all.

Bd, your fantasy knows no end. Chritmas, celebrating the birth of christ. What a load of rubbish, the bloke was born around August, there is nothing anywhere in biblical history that describes a virgin birth, nor a nativity scene. Chrstmas is just another way of trying to control people, by delusion. If it were a celebration of something worthwhile that people and children could relate to, then fine. But its designed to trap the young so that they can be indocrinated by the deluded religious and spend their lives entrapped in despotic violent illusions.

Bd, if christmas is such a good time for peace and joy, why is it the time of the year where there is a huge increase in violence, domestic breakdown, road accidents and death. Is it because the christian belief is really orientated to death and destruction, as its history and current followers show us by their works, that they hide behind a cloak of illusionary niceties.

Why can't you speak truth instead of fantasy. Must religion always live within lies and false interpretation. If any of you had half a brain, you would concede that your beliefs are based on lies and false history. What religion has done to those that may have had access to knowledge beyond normal understanding, is to distort and destroy anything that they may have said, that may help humanity understand their place in existance.

The veracity of all you say, is borne out by the factual truth of your convictions, not what you want us to believe.

Why do people who do not believe in Christmas readily accept Christmas public holidays?

Nice question kal, but if people taking christmas holidays when they dont believe in christmas are hypocrites, I guess that makes us all hypocrites - I mean who really cares about when the queen was born....

Spirit of Christmas Facts

Prior to Birth of Christ other civilisations had significant ceremonies at the same time of Christmas (winter solstice give or take a few days/weeks with changing calenders)

These ceremonies continued on even after Christianity developed. Christianity had no special celebration for Christ's birthday until around 360 AD when there was a decree to celebrate Christ's birthday. It was an attempt to appropriate the other celebrations in typical Christian arrogance.

However many of the customs of the non-christian celebrations continued.

During the reformation the protestant churches banned the celebration of christmas.

The Christmas that we celebrate has an amalgam of societal celebrations from the Roman pagan days to the Nordic (Santa Claus).

Why is it that ignorant Christians are always trying to impose their will on the way that other people live and celebrate their lives.

slasher, good points. I had heard similar previously but had not seen the detail.

Kay, there are two groups you could be refering to
- Non christains who have no reason to celebrate the birth of Jesus (except some muslims such as FH who may)
- Those who choose not to celebrate Christmas/Xmas etc.

If your question is about the first then the reasons I can think of are
- Christmas/Xmas is something other than just a celebration of Jesus birthday. See slashers post for some historical context and consider that the celebration has become a time for families to get together, to do some things which we often don't do at other times of the year. I don't know how well defined that stuff is but it has become an important part of our society, there are other reason's for the season than Jesus.
- It's not real easy to avoid the holiday even if you want to. Laws govern how people are paid etc. Plus we tend to like days off. Non christains having days off for what are billed as christain holidays are not doing anything different than republicans having time off for the Queens Birthday, pacifists having Anzac day off, anti-unionists having Labor day off, people who don't go to their local show having as show day off. The days off are seen as part of employment conditions.

Those who don't celebrate any form of Christmas/Xmas are probably covered by that last point.

R0bert

Hi there Slasher and RObert

Just threw my post in for a stir! Naughty eh?

Hope you both had a great Christmas. We did.

We are helping out a disadvantaged family. We only spent $50.00 extra on our usual fortnightly shopping. The family consists of a divorced Mum with no husband support, and four little ones. They all have behavioural problems due to their father's physical abuse. Mum and the second boy who has autism and ADHD went home this am. We now have the oldest boy - who is only 9 years sound asleep at 10.00pm.

He was trying to fight sleep at 9.50 - not tired! After a day on the river fishing, and then in the swimming pool with me after dinner - home made pizzas were great - he is now purring away. It is still 30C here on the verandah and hotter in the house I think.

Giving to this wonderful little boy is our Christmas.

Cheers all
Whoopie for the New Year to all of you
Kay