“Sydney’s burning: why did it happen?”

Simple question, simple answer: because of an enforced, official multicultural policy and the immigration of people who were never going to assimilate and who will never assimilate.

No need for pontificating and hand wringing. It’s far too late now. Until now, we have been spectators of the violence that follows Muslims wherever they go. Now we have to endure the same conflict, and it has only just started

Leigh

Dead wrong and deadly dangerous response. Peter's simple question does NOT have a simple answer. This simplistic thinking -- plus a flood of hormones and alcohol -- is a major cause of the violence in the first place.

For one thing violence does NOT follow Muslims wherever they go. I have Muslim friends who lead very peaceful lives in my city. This conflict only becomes one of religion when you you start saying it is.

These sorts of violent clashes between mobs from different ethnic or cultural backgrounds have occurred from the time of the first colonisation of Australia. (Some may say even before that.) I remember some even in Adelaide in the '50s when I was growing up. Perhaps we need to look more carefully at our history and try to learn more from it.

Let's all calm down a bit, stop the mutual blaming and do some real thinking.

"It seems these Middle Eastern guys comment to Australian girls about how they dress "
"It also appears they can walk down the street..., (it appears they) say what offensive comments…"

It seems, it appears… Just how wishy-washy can a person get? And this person is a Ph.D. and head of a sociological research group - yet he has no idea of what the facts are. Here we see the fruit of multiculturalism, where one cannot express anything negative about non-Western cultures in anything but the most vague and ambiguous way possible. Heaven forbid that Mr. West should be judgmental about in anyway except if referring to whites or western civilization.

"These ideas may or might not explain what happened." Well, if you don't have a clue, why bother to write the darn article?

The fact is that it will get worse. Muslims cannot integrate and live side by side (in numbers) with other people. Read the Quran and the hadiths. They are very clear as to the preferred relationship between Muslims and infidels.

There are no easy answers. Violence is not the solution; it only takes one side down to the level of the other. To create new restrictions and or single out Muslims for retribution only will create resentment and radicalize many otherwise peaceful folks within that community. To continue under the current policy of asinine political correct multiculturalism is to add fuel to the fire.

In my opinion, forget banning headscarves or the hajib, the best we can do is be honest with Muslims about their religion. Tell them the things they do not want to hear or even think about. Show them the verses from their scriptures that proclaim hate and anger to non-Muslims. Show them the repulsive deeds performed by their prophet Mohammed - a man they consider to be a great "example". Tell them you are offended! Demand that they explain these verses. Do not accept anything but absolute honesty.

This is the best way to deal with this issue. Even so, this may not be enough. Bad times are a-coming.

Kactuzkid

Kactuz:

Like Leigh you're bent on getting a simple answer to a complex problem. You're only fuelling the flames.

You write: "Well, if you don't have a clue, why bother to write the darn article?" And then you say: "There are no easy answers." So are you howling down Peter for taking the same position as yourself? Seems to be plain self-contradiction.

The article is offering a lot of clues for us to consider. Clues, not THE answer. Finding answers will take a lot of hard and humble thought. And it will take time: the problem has, after all, taken a long time to develop to this violent point.

You write: "Muslims cannot integrate and live side by side (in numbers) with other people." And then: "To create new restrictions and or single out Muslims for retribution only will create resentment and radicalize many otherwise peaceful folks within that community." Again you're contradicting yourself.

I repeat: Let's all calm down a bit, stop the mutual blaming and do some real thinking.

We have the Metropolis we had to have. We have persisted with a political structure that has concentrated money flows, wealth, political influence, jobs and investment in one single location. This can only result in the formation of a large metropolis at the expense of regional communities, regional economies and the established values on which this nation thrived. It has not been helped by an imigration policy that has been overly weighted towards metropolitan settlers. And surprise, surprise, we now have all the problems normally associated with oversized cities.

History has shown that migrants of all origins have intergrated much better in smaller cities and towns where the smaller scale precludes the kind of dysfunctional tribalism being demonstrated recently in Sydney.

But the real irony in all this is that for all the problems that are directly challenging the character and quality of metropolitan life, urban voters and their elected members still take the view that they know what is best for rural and regional communities.

But the view from the bush is that Sydney has held all the power, influence and resources for more than five decades so we have every right to say, 'tough, it is your problem, created on your watch, so fix it yourself".

It is time rural NSW had its own State so Sydney can concentrate on its own problems and leave us to spend our own GST on our own priorities.

Id rather fuel the flames for a civil revolt. It is about time Australia was going to have somthing like this. Nearly every country on the planet so far has experience a civil war based on race.

Dont deny the inevitable it was going to occur one day or another, the only thing we can change is the outcome of what society we will live in after and how we can maintain a peacefull ordered multicultual society where reforms have been made to benifit all society.

Or we could end up having as a leader a mass murdering psycopath similar to Hitler or Stalin who will send us back into dark ages of a dictatorship exterminating civilians and opposition to maintain his/her power of Australia.

Dr Peter West,

I think you should read through your comments once more ... within it and within yourself I think you will find the answer you are looking for.

Your comments remind me of an old aquaintance from South Africa (80's)
who assured me that.

"I am not racist ... they (black South Africans) are just too cheeky"

Milo

Now that this has been brought out into the open, it is time to have a proper debate about the whole problem.
We have not been allowed to question multiculture---it was racist to try to do so.
Now the whole system is looking decidedly sick and it will be healthier for all to get all our opinions into a free debate which should have been done years ago.
The entire system of immigration into Australia must be dealt with openly and with regard to the feelings of all Australians.
Otherwise there is going to be an ongoing cancer in this society.

[Post deleted. This site is about free speech, but free speech has limits. Urging violence against others is beyond the limits of what can be tolerated, unless the violence is in a legally sanctioned form. This poster has quite clearly over-stepped the mark and they have been suspended.]

Guys
I'm of middle eastern origin and I'm telling you, you can't be so tolerant to the intolerant , Yes it is a fact nowadasy that A big number of Muslims are driven by Faschistic Ideology of hate and want to change all the societies they go to and cause everlasting unrest.
The author of the article is so reluctant to clearly condmen these people and him and all people alike in the west will create more problems by their attitude and so called tolerance and those people will Just abuse it. Wake up or you will be no different than middle east countries soon. I totally find the way those youth unacceptable but I guess as long as we don't address and deal with these Ideology who force their own way of life upon others, people who live peacefully will find nowhere to go.

You're not even safe in the city with these middle-eastern men. They drive around in packs in at times heavily modified vehicles [often paid for by their parents when they at times don't work] and roam the streets hassling inner city folks. They are crude, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, the whole bag really. They regularly throw projectiles from their vehicles at locals in Darlinghurst and Kings Cross. Now and again some local will discharge a projectile back in their direction, or if the guys park their car and walk off, do damage to their car in their absence.

Their being confronted with inner-city life is their meeting what they perceive as the ultimate decadance of society, a witnessing of heavily intoxicated backpacker and suburban women carrying their shoes after a long night out, the images of strip clubs, female and transsexual prostitutes etc. I should add here that through life experience and other sources, many of them may not drink but use a lot of other drugs, eg cannabis, amphetamines. Here again the projectile throwing, shouting out "how much" etc. They are implicated in road rage everywhere, once one tried to cut me off years ago then when I was stopped at lights he ran up to the car and tried to assault me. Another time I was overtaken on the inside by one who, through my opened nearside window, tried to spit on me. Its not exclusive to Sydney, similar scenes can be witnessed around St Kilda in Melbourne and I've personally witnessed them. Bayside Melbourne residents should be on the lookout too.

Peter's article is about as closest to the truth as I have read so far across most media accounts.

As a resident of Cronullla for many years (Prince St. local) his comments re:

"But Cronulla is on the train line. Middle Eastern males seem to have a culture in which boys roam freely, while girls must be shielded, guarded, and dress carefully. The males travel in large packs of 12 or 20.

It seems these Middle Eastern guys comment to Australian girls about how they dress and behave. It also appears they can walk down the street and onto the beaches in large packs, say what offensive comments they like - particularly to women - and people are afraid to stop them. Locals in Cronulla get annoyed year after year. Tension has steadily mounted. And an attack on two lifesavers was all it needed."

...are the simple facts. All this racism and nationalism stuff is just crap; it's media beatup or a government excuse for inaction. The simple fact is people of Cronulla, and no doubt other locations have been harrassed for years by these gangs or groups of Middle Eastern young people. People are tired and sick of it. When the Police are in low numbers and are powerless to act, when the laws are weak and do not stop such action, when there are so many do-gooders and people trying to be "politically correct" action is not taken. So unfortunately frustration to inaction has lead to people taking the law into their own hands. If this was addressed and nipped in the bud years ago (and it has been going on for over 20 years) then we would not have the problems we have today. Now it will take more drastic action. But it has to be taken. Forget all of the righteous stuff and fix the real problem, take the gangs off the street (completely), and let people of all races and cultures enjoy the beaches and public places in safety as they should. Government, stop the "pussyfooting" and get in and fix the problem, now.

Rob.

Here we have an example of what I think most Aussie's see as a challenge to our beliefs and morals. I think Peter has put his point forward in as fair a way as possible without cause to insite more hatred. What I see this episode though is us resenting that other cultures are permeating our society with ideas that challenge a lot of the beliefs we were bought up with.

I don't think violence is the answer to anything, however to some it seems it this (and I am not exluding our own culture from this). I do not blame religion as a direct cause, but we as Australians may see an easy blame to say it's 'just Muslims'. Sure the middle eastern culture has developed a lot DUE to this religion, but they're simply ways that this culture has grown on a different path to ours.

We are all accepting of various things, but I think we're slowly degrading into a state of unrest due to our complacency. I agree with the anti-terror laws, it's just a shame that this may end up in further hatred coming our way from those of middle eastern decent. It makes me wonder now, has this riot scenario only come about sooner because of our fear? I know when I've walked down the street, and I've seen someone of middle eastern origins, I have to stopped to think "Hey, is that guy someone I can trust?". I know though that these fears could be unfounded, but with a culture so hell-bent on destroying all 'infidels', is it not reasonable that these fears are amongst us all?

I come from a minority group, most of us have been treated in some way as a minority. We just all react differently to it, whether we are one or see someone as being part of one. Our culture just needs to learn from this. It may take some time, but I only hope that in the end we can all show the world who we are as a peaceful place, and live together in acceptance.

People,
I agree with Peter’s article that members of different communities and including the media should calm down regarding the race problems. However, it should be quite unacceptable if they back down and hide behind the "multiculturalism" label that Australians have draped themselves into.

People have to understand that there will be young people that behave violently across the world. It was drastic for everyone to jump into the topic which media helped to fuel more . I think that’s where things turned into more explosive forms.

Especially, it's really frightening that the idea of white supremacy is back among the young white people of Australia. Into the 21st century this sort of mentality is unacceptable. Are we going to witness the birth of an AUSTRALIAN HITLER now? People are also, in the end, accusing Muslims because they can't integrate into the Australian society. Can't they? Do they have to? What is “Australian way of life”? Living near the beach and drinking beer with mates? NO, ITS NOT. The most important thing, no matter where you are from, is to acknowledge, accept, tolerate, and respect other cultures and beliefs. So what if someone doesn’t drink alcohol or have their own dress code? They still have the right to be Australian. And any white Australian, who favors the comment, "Fly back where you came from", let me tell you this, the WHITE Australians also must consider going on board of a ship and leave this land to its rightful owner, the Aborigines. Mere decedents of convicts have no right to ban immigration.

However, I am in no way critical of the "thugs" only. I firmly believe that the young people of the so named "middle-eastern" origin have a huge fault in the way the behave. There can be various of reasons behind that. This type of behavior is certainly not Australian. And if they can't mend their ways then them don’t have the rights to remain in society. But lets be sensible and make them pay through the law.

Lets say NO to Violence. Let Humanity and Equality lead the way.

PERICLES, you are British !, you have not been here long enough to know just how ‘serious’ the bashing of life guards is to our culture and identity. Please read Romans 13 about ‘pacifism’ and the role of the State. While we remain law abiding, there is no conflict.

IN THE INTERESTS OF A PEACEFUL AUSTRALIA.

Now that Cronulla has been “locked down” for a few days, by a very temporary police presence, thugs are now choosing their victims in places like Castle Hill and Rhyde.
The defenseless individuals targeted are asked “Are you Aussie” and if they answer ‘yes’ they are assaulted mercilessly because they are Australian.

This is racism at its worst.

ACTION PLAN:

OBJECTIVE: LAWFUL REASONABLE RESTRAINT AND CITIZENS ARREST.
(subtitle: There will not be 400+ police in your area 365 days of the year)

To all fellow Australians, I urge you to adopt something along the following lines.

1/ RESIDENTS MEETINGS in all suburbs, (on a street by street basis) for the appointment of Co-ordinators.(OIC officer in charge-preferably people of military background and experience)

2/ ROBUST DEFENDERS should be identified in footy, soccer clubs, gyms and other networked social groups. Who will familiarize themselves with basic self defense.

3/ COMMAND STRUCTURE established for quick and efficient mobilization of citizens defense squads.

4/ WARNING signals set up, perhaps Air Horns, or an electronic siren.

5/ RESTRAINT equipment such as large cable ties etc. on hand

6/ DEFENSIVE equipment such as Capsicum spray in each house.

7/ EXERCISES carried out to test response times and comms effectiveness. This 2 B done at a street level and multi street level.

On the sounding of the Siren/Warning 2IC will call for assistance from POLICE while OIC will lead the street apprehensions.

In the event of an attack the perpetrators are to be taken and restrained in a citizens arrest, evidence gathered, and held until police arrive.

Any number plates of fleeing perpetrators cars to be noted.

IF YOU ARE ACCOSTED...

1/ Hide your wallet-(with your licence,name)
2/ Practice a ‘foreign’ sounding ‘Me.. no.... English’ looking ‘blank’ at your attackers.

Boazy

An organised, trained and equipped "home guard" has often been suggested, in times of war.

Against 20-30 Middle Eastern "brothers" (or other racist thugs) some of whom may be armed, the guard would need its own weapons. Guards would need to be fit, have a detailed knowledge of assault, arrest and other legal areas to protect themselves from being sued by the thugs.

As guards will witness considerable law breaking they will need to become accustomed to facing thugs in court as witnesses.

So I see inherent problems in civilianising the sharp ends of policing. I think citizen's arrest on a minor or mass scale would invite retaliation by well recognised thuggish groups who seemingly live to fight.

POLICE CAN HANDLE IT

I agree that the large number of police shipped in from all over NSW are unsustainable and largely a political embarrassment reaction.

The Lebanese gangs "etc" are obviously lying low until the police numbers can again be largely ignored.

I think the only way for this issue to be handled month by month, year in year out, is to employ many more police in trouble spots, permanently.

This will take an increase in national, state and local taxes but in a normal state of law (without states of emergency and other political event making).

There's no substitute for a legally knowledgable, fit, state run police force.

IMMIGRATION - In terms of revenue raising (for this) - increased entry fees (including family reunion "scams") for all but tourist visas should be boosted. If we only get those who can raise the non-refundable fees (Hong Kong Chinese, rich Americans, hard working kiwis etc) this may put many review lawyers out of work but it’s a price we must shoulder.

Johnny Howard has been very quiet about the discomfiture of the NSW State LABOR Government over the immediate mess. I'd expect the Federal Government will rightly use this as an opportunity to tighten immigration measures.

Attacks on the legitimate state of law and order always make me especially “moderate”.

FINALLY,

Some actual intelligent response from the communities. They propose imposing sever restrictions upon their own youth in order to prevent continued escalation. IT is a good idea, however it would need to be particularly effective, in order to prevent the continuation of the status quo.

One thing that amazes me is the message they are putting out that it is no longer fun or a game! Intidimation, threats and violence and hanging around in groups of 30+ seeking to impose their will on ordinary people HAS apparently been a fun game to this point. Perhaps this should also be challenged.

However, I wish them luck. They may or may not be able to prevent the continued violence (and escalation thereof) from their own communities, but lets see how it works in the face of continued pressure from mobs of Australians that have copped it in the past and like being on top again.

I think that they may have cut it fine, civil unrest foments, and takes a long time to erupt, however it is even harder to stop, and it will only need a couple of hotheads.

The other problem is that memories are long, and it will not take much in the future to return to the brink, therefore any measures implemented to prevent the violence will have to become standardised, long-term measures, because the abyss they skirt aint mutually by any means, but it is assured destruction for them.

>>you are British !, you have not been here long enough to know just how ‘serious’ the bashing of life guards is<<

Interesting position, and very illuminating, Boaz.

Why did you put the word 'serious' in quotes? I guess even you saw how lame the concept is. The Aussie lifeguard is an icon, of course, but where on the same scale would you put beating up off-duty police? Higher? Lower? Be realistic, thuggery is thuggery.

And while you are at it, how long does one have to be here in order to qualify to have an opinion? Five years? Ten? Twenty? Give me a clue, so that we can start segregating you real Aussies, steeped in the traditions of the country and with the right to say how we run our lives, from those of us who simply will never understand.

Your recipe for resolving the problem is pure Colonel Blimp fantasy, of course. Stick to preaching.

PLANTA

I notice your other post said
"Assuming Police can handle it"
and in this one you said
"Police CAN handle it" :)
But, as you also said, and we both know, they can only 'handle' it in the short term, and soon the extra police will return to other duties, and the lurking 'evildoers' will be on the rampage again to show us skips a thing or two about who really runs the city.
It is really quite clear that there has been a declaration of war by the 'thug' element of the Lebanese community.

Regarding some of what you mentioned about certain 'requirements' of such a home guard, yes, agreed..but there somethings better left unsaid and more to the creative imagination of those involved eh :)

The strategy I'm advocating is actually the same one used by Gengis Khan, and trained people can be called on at any time, and don't always have to be used 'just' in their immediate area.

Aaron was less circumspect in his suggestions of plausable scenarios, and I assure you there are plenty of ideas floating around which exceed and amplify his thoughts.

PERICLES
thanx for that link, it actually underlined my point. That was a spontaneous issue which was not seeking to assert the authority of a particular ethnic group over the authority of police, it was just simple 'we hate cops and here are some vulnerable ones, lets beat the crap out of them'
The actions of the Lebanese were more calculated, and had a much more sinister purpose. So, I believe I have made my point.
On the 'Colonal Blimp' remark ... well you call them as u see them. 2night I'm meeting with the former director of Defense Signals Directorate, I'm sure we will have an interesting convo. He is one of my former course mates in the RAAF. There are many solid Military connections in our community. Hardly 'Colonal Blimp'.. ur too British :) "blerrrdy convict commoners.. they know nothing"

But yes, proclamation of the gospel is certainly my preferred domain and far more peaceful.

Ah yes! The "melting pot" on full boil - it creates a nasty odour doesn't it?

Those politicians have done it to us again. They changed education to eliminate knowledge and elevate mediocrity creating cheap labour. Destroyed families to get women into the work force creating new compulsive consumers and more cheap labour. Imported "multiculturalism" to replace the missing babies from the working women, simultaneously getting new aspirational consumers and even more cheap labour. Stirred everyone together in a big urban bowl. Made laws prohibiting freedom of speech so nobody could complain. "Rationalised" services to cut costs and forced people to work harder to provide for themselves and for less. Kept housing development down to push house prices higher to make people work even harder resulting in lower wages. Kept pushing everybody together in cramped cities with increasing social pressures and increasing psychological temperatures, bringing that ol' melting pot up to the boil.

Now on the southern beaches, it's boiled.

Now politicians can make grand noble speeches about themselves, about tolerance, and law and order, and terrorism, and "get tough" on crime, whipping up more social unrest so they can demonstrate how much more we need them and why they need to keep changing laws and taking away our freedoms, and why we should pay more tax and why we should all work much harder and for less.

Yep, that ol' melting pot - sure stinks when the lid blows off. But those politicians, they love it.

Still some here are very apologtic for fear of being prejudice
But if you can't diagnose the disease how you will treat it? or you do just as we say in medicine you treat symptoms and leave the disease to grow
look around you there are many other middle eastern groups who aren't muslims do you have problem with their attitude to western Culture or any one arrested terrorist actions?
look around there are many other cultural difference in other groups, Indian, Spanish, etc ? any similar problems?
Today problems arise from a single source and everybody has to be clear that it is from Indonesia, to France, to Australia, to England to Spain to Philipins, to Bangledesh, to Iraq and all midlle east countries ...........................
is a Specific Islamic Ideolgy of hate,refusal of others which lead sometimes to overt terrorism and othertimes to national unrest in the countries they live in
Again Islamic Ideology not all Muslims follow that is why there are a lot of peacful Muslims ,
But if you don't fight this outfront in newspaper, TV and stop the resources in Mosques , schools , overseas and screen the immigrants well there will be no end.

Crabby,

No. I’m not “dead wrong”. You are, and I totally disagree with your apologist nonsense. I also regard with great suspicion anyone who uses the word ‘simplistic’ in an attempt to deny the arguments of others.

>>2night I'm meeting with the former director of Defense Signals Directorate, I'm sure we will have an interesting convo.<<

Please don't misunderstand me, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are able to find many folk who think the same way that you do - vigilantism, civil defence, whatever - I've heard plenty of them dribble away on talk-back radio. But that still doesn't make it a realistic response.

In fact it brings us ever closer to the Mosley model:

"There are only two ways to meet such a situation: a national consensus to secure action - which we first attempted - or a grass-roots movement of the people, which I set out to create when that attempt failed." Sir Oswald Mosley, 'My Life' 1968

Get hold of a copy of Sir Oswald's autobiography straight away and take it along to your meeting. You'll find it contains many useful tips on how to mobilize a national force against people you dislike.

This country, as far as I can tell after only twenty-odd years here, prides itself on mateship, the fair go and all that self-congratulatory tosh, but also upon the rule of law and on the distant approximation to democracy that we call the government. The last thing we need right now is a bunch of superannuated Dad's Army types pushing their weight around.

Although, come to think of it, it might inject a much needed touch of farce into the whole mess.

If the families of the young Lebanese want to go on living in some kind of peace, it would probably be better to send their troubled young people back to their country of origin until they are mature enough to decide which culture they feel more in tune with.
There is no reason why Australians should be forced to tolerate the bad behaviour of these people.
If you catch a cancer in time, you can eradicate it. But leave it alone and it does the worst to a body or a country.

Some corresponence to FDB from Australian (Christians?).

"darp, you really are a mentally defective mongrel. Remember, every dog has it's day and you ol' buddy, are just that DOG. Good idea to keep your head down on Hitlers birthday, actually, probably a good idea to keep it down permanently. The right is getting ever stronger and there is NOTHING you can do to stop it, except for ranting like the neurotic little school kid you are. RAUS JUDEN! (BEN WEERHEYM)
——
Darp, ——
It doesn't matter anyhow, I would say that your full address and other personal details will be shown for all to see on the Redwatch Downunder site that is coming together quite nicely. ...

Forum Posts

Ben to an FDB member.

I swear, if you mention that sh*t again. I WILL seriously assault you, I don't care if I go to jail d*ckhead, I will stomp on your f**king head, I couldn't care who reads this, you are a filthy peice of sh*t that deserves to be badly assaulted going on like that. It may not happen straight away but I will store it in my brain for another time. You think I am an evil nazi? I will go out of my way for you to definately think so.
___

Threats from Kromlek of Asgard, the main organiser of the White Pride Coalition of Australia.
Hard copy correspondance

Dear fist-f**king, s*it-d*ck scum

I hope I made you choke on that glass of your lover's enema water.

... I relish the prospect of skinning my knuckles on your half-bred head.
You can consider yourself warned that the WPCA lads are an ENTIRELY different prospect and you bring your sh*t to OUR door at your peril. ...?

Forum posts on WPCA

Kromlek
Administrator"
So the mono-cultural right is getting "stronger" - who would have figured? (Difference)

Not wanting to kmock any online contributors, but a couple of points might help. Firstly, one from an oldie who went to a country school in a weatherboard hall in a wheatbelt town. It was in the late 1920s and attending the little school we had German migrant neighbours on one side, Scots on another and Irish neighbours on the other two sides.

Now at the time in the hall once a month we had the travelling silent pictures or "flicks". Now one of the Irish families including their kids refused to stand up when God Save our Gracious King was played. Later the other Irish family did the same the German family following.

Naturally it got around the school, but it is so interesting that our father shook his head and simply told us not to make a song and dance about it, saying these people are our neighbours and we have to get on together. It was also the days when Afghan teamsters still drove a few wagon teams in the district, never having any trouble mixing with non-Islamics.

Adding to what some of our contributors have mentioned, it all starts with the parents, one could say that it is not always the churchy families that get away Scot free in this respect.

Finally, though not able to remember his name, while doing an adult educational social science elective back in the 1970s, we learnt that there was a certain German professor who believed that it was pressure from the parents that had helped cause the fanaticism of the Hitler Youth Movement, and the later Nazi cruelty. Accordingly this caused social science teachers to recommend that children should not always believe what their parents tell them, and we could well wonder whether that German professor who also wrote a popular text book might have gone too far.

George C, WA, Bushbred

I think the problem is that the right is getting stronger. The right wants Australia to be at one with their ideology, with their culture, with their fascism which they see as a superior model.
It won't stop with the easily identified others like ethnic immigrants. It is clearly racism now, but it will trip over into their own particular kind of cultural, ideological and religious suprematism. It has nothing to do with law and order because the behaviour of the radical right confirms this.

The right want a nation where the people are one with their idea of what it is to be Australian. While most Australians agree on the rule of law etc., these mob want us to agree on everything including our religious and cultural leanings.
They must want a monoculture where difference is seen as a crime against nature. It can't happen because there are millions of diverse folk that can't help but be different to others. The diversity of OLO helps to prove this.
The irony is that the rights ideal of an Australia where the people are one is the same as extremist group Al Qaeda who, some agrue, would have a global state where the people are one with Islam. Same monocultural position. The surf life savers bashing was just an excuse for right-wing opportunists to further their agenda. They don't give a toss about the rise of violence on our streets unless there is an ethnic involved.(Vegemite).

God bless you bushbred, you brought a tear to my eye with your post. I know exactly what you're talking about.

If only all the other hot heads posting here would get off their unearned high-horses and go stick their heads in a bucket of iced water until they cooled down, the world might just become Australian again.

Bushbred, to you and yours, you have a very merry Christmas mate. Judging by your post, I'm pretty sure you will.

I thank you.

samo,

PART I

I couldn't agree with you more on the UTTER INTOLERANCE of those in the community with an identity correlate with ISLAM. However, I think that the truth you speak will have a more positive effect on the minds of all Australians if, rather than articulated in terms of "Islam"--which only induces the reply of "racism" or "intolerance"--it is articulated as much as is practicable in terms of the words "racism," "bigotry," and "intolerance".

Despite Wahlid Ali's fantasy of Islam's wonderful (theoretical?) toleration for others, we had yesterday on SBS 7pm a special hosted by Anton Enus about the gang issue, where Kuranda Seyet (not sure of the spelling), the head of some Islamic body, proposed (i.e. Islam in practice, not theory) as the "solution" for these gang problems that Australia have--brace yourself!--"A DEBATE ON OUR NATIONAL IDENTITY" (this guy also recently complained about Christmas). He basically said that Muslims will forever feel alienated from Australia until we have such a debate. I heard the same view expressed by a talk-back caller the other day.

Where's the ideal of UNIVERSAL TOLERANCE in this? Our European ancestry is what makes us aspire to actualise such an ideal, to forever work towards it:

THAT ONE OUGHT TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO AND LIVE AS THEY PLEASE SO LONG AS THEIR ACTIONS DO NOT INFRINGE UPON THE FREEDOM OF OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. INSOFAR AS THEY INFRINGE THIS RIGHT OF OTHERS THEY ACT INTOLERABLY.

Why would we need to change our national identity if at its core is only such a principle of tolerance and democracy? No one is asking Muslims to adopt Aussie "customs," just the universal principles of tolerance and equality coming out of our heritage, the stuff the Reformation gave us.

Such intolerance only reflects what manifests in, for example, arranged marriages or separate swimming sessions, which we in blindness deem a "cultural practice"!! And what of the ethno-specific charity fund-raising during the Tsunami?

Middle eastern youth often are violent and intolerant folk. I have bore the brunt of a number of assaults perpetrated by them. By way of background for those who know me on this site, I'm Aussie.

PART II

Bruce Baird's reply to another Islamic bigot on the program--Fadi Rahman--was a beauty: that THE CRONULLA SHIRE WAS ONE OF THE MOST CHARITABLE IN THE NATION TOWARDS VOLUNTEERING FOR THE SYDNEY OLYMPICS, AND ALSO THE MOST CHARITABLE DURING THE TSUNAMI CRISIS, SPECIFICALLY FOR MUSLIM INDONESIANS, so that they are "racist," as Fadi and friend were demanding, seems to be a misunderstanding.

Whenever we speak of “racism” we think “Anglo” only; THIS MUST CHANGE IF WE ARE EVER TO MOVE FORWARD.

But the West has had highly laudable education programs set up post WWII, and their market system has spread the message of tolerance via 60's pop/rock music, etc. (compare the more recent bigotry of hip hop!). Moreover, having been conditioned by some powerful nazis in the Ministry of Education for the past couple of generations to believe WE are intolerant and racist of Others, Aussies have a deep first-hand conception of what it feels like to be self-critical of their ethnicity, and to even question such things is a huge leap.

It is a more productive strategy, I think, to attack Muslim intolerance not by attacking Islam--for it is silenced as "racism" or similar--but rather by attacking certain "cultural" groups in terms of "racism," "bigotry", or simply "intolerance" alone, and spread this throughout the media, the curriculum, and indeed the Academy, just as was done in regards to Anglo rednecks and nazis.

Multiculturalism bans all criticism of such ethnic minorities precisely because many recent arrivals CAN ONLY CONCEPTUALISE IN TERMS OF THEIR ETHNICITY.

The more Islamic intolerance (i.e. xenophobia) gets articulated not in terms of “Islam”--for everybody cries "racism" or similar--but rather "racism," "bigotry," or "intolerance," which is more acceptable by community standards, the discourse thereby spawned will apply pressure upon Islamic spokespersons to put the violence of their associates in these terms too. In turn, multiculturalism will be seen as being forced BECAUSE the more recent arrivals to this land are way more inclined to intolerance and racism than are the Anglos.

We have in our midst HAIRY-HEAD NEO-NAZIS

Dear Skippy
I was moved at the passion,effort and thought- you put into that 2 part post. Well put. You make some excellent points, particularly the need to attack the manifestations of intolerance from the Leb/Islamic community rather than the ideology of Islam per se.

Any debate on National Identity (which I totally support) should result in our confirming the Anglo/European heritage and prevailing culture, and their need to adapt to it.

As you would observe, I myself am often charged with "My-religion-is-better-than-yours-ism" when I (and Kactuz,Coach and others) point out the flaws in Islam as a faith. My approach is founded though, in the view that unless one can demonstrate the flaws in the foundation, the house will not be able to show the residents that it is an unsafe place to dwell. Both approaches are needed I feel, if just for our own sake as much as theirs.

In scrutinizing their foundations, we also raise questions in the minds of our fellow 'skips' about the foundations of our own cultural heritage of Christianity. There are so many accumulated myths and misrepresentations that its like an onion, many layers, many tears to peel them back to expose the true beauty of knowing God as Christ demonstrated.(as opposed to the oft repeated examples of bad behavior portrayed by an antagonistic secular/leftist media and Hollywood.)

PERICLES
I read up on Mosley, and I found myself recoiling in horror at his direction. You may see some superficial similarities in my expressed views and his, but I assure you, CROMWELL (aside from his rather brutal attacks on some Irish who (under the reprehensible instructions of their nobles) were told 'fight to the last'while they fled to safety)- is the figure of history I would most closely identify with. Mosely was entranced by Hitler and Mussolini, and founded the British society of facists. SHUDDER.... not while Hell remains unfrozen would I have any inclination in Mosely's direction!
Where Cromwell took up arms, I prefer the prophetic approach. Words rather than swords.
DSD chap is just a friend -no big plans, I was namedropping :).

Cromwell, eh? An interesting choice of hero, Boaz.

"From Dublin Cromwell marched north to Drogheda, which was defended by an English Catholic and royalist, Sir Arthur Aston. When his surrender demand was ignored, Cromwell stormed the city and ordered the death of every man in the garrison, describing this as 'a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches'"

"Priests and friars were treated as combatants by Cromwell's Puritans and executed. Even more horrible was the fate of the defenders of St. Peter's Church in the northern part of the town; the church was burned down around them. By nightfall, only small pockets of resistance on the walls remained."

It is very naive to try and distance the pious parliamentary protestant in London from the vicious killer in Ireland; they are two parts of the same person. It's a bit like saying Osama bin Laden is a fine fellow on the evidence that he loves his mother.

Just a small additional point. Rather than read about Mosley, read Mosley's own words. Then you can get the full flavour of how a highly intelligent man can delude himself into believing that he has the answer, the right answer, the only answer - and in addition, has the gift of oratory to persuades others. The result, in terms of the forces unleashed, is frightening.

You are unfortunately closer than you think to falling into the same trap. Wrapping yourself in a flag may seem to be a solidly patriotic thing to do. Barracking for the surf lifesavers against marauding hordes of foreigners may sound properly manly and Australian. Managing the result can be somewhat more difficult, especially once there have been a few deaths along the way.

Yes Pericles, as I said.. which I'm sure you read, "apart from his brutal treatment of the Irish..."

Regarding Mosely, even though he might have 'gilt edged words' and a silver tongue of oratory, it matters not to me because my primary committment is to Christ, not man. Hence, while I respect mans law to the extent that it reflects Gods law, and where it diverges I use my democratic right to seek to shape it, I really don't see myself in the trenches. (too old)

You referred to 'once it is unleashed' yes.. valid point, but ask yourself this, are my few words unleashing anything or are the actions of an ethnic minority over a 10yr period unleashing something ? I was at the gym 2night, and a fellow member shared with me how he used to live in the centre of Lakemba etc. In 1997 his parents would not let him goto Westfield mall, due to the racist violence against whites. At cronulla beach, he reports that Lebanese men would BLOCK OFF a section where the rock pools are, and 'their' women only could bathe there. In other words, freedom of public association at the beach was unlawfully challenged by an ethnic group, in a blatantly racist way. now, it seems that everyone is allowed to be racist, except 'white' folks, and when they react to racism, 'WHITE RACISTS ATTACK ETHNIC MINORITY' capitals because that is the 'kind of headline thing the BBC came out with the other day.
The simple fact is, our culture has had a declaration of war served on it, and to be blunt, its not on.

Elisha told the Israelites to 'feed the Aramean captives and then free them' They went away peacefully, but came back later to sack the Israelite cities. We could 'feed' the Lebanese, invite them to dinner. They would still sack the city.

Pericles.. read up on the history of the Lebanese civil war...
Think 'key French policy mistakes' and 'demography' We can discuss further

The Sydney riots are just the beginning.
A world war is already simmering, with Muslims clashes against Russia, Europe, Israel, China, India, the USA and Southeast Asia. Once the fighting starts in Europe, it could spread outside the continent and ignite a world war. This is the scenario of "global civil war". It would become the worst and most destructive war in human history, involving nuclear weapons on both sides. It could completely destroy the Middle East and North Africa, deeply damage Europe, the Indian continent, and parts of Southeast Asia, and inflict serious casualties on the USA, Australia and Africa. Its secondary and economic ripples will be felt on all corners of the planet, including the ones least involved in the actual fighting, such as Latin America and East Asia.
When there are outbreaks of Mad Cow Disease, millions of cattle are affected -- the meat from those millions completely quarantined for fear of the results. When travellers, originating in a land known to have an outbreak of a communicable and deadly disease -- typhus, tuberculosis, avian flu, for example, try to enter this or that country, they are often turned away.
If you knew that out of every 100 Muslim immigrants, 1 out of 10, at the very least, the absolute minimum, would be either a participant in terrorist acts or would do nothing to prevent, by warning the police, of such acts -- well, what would you, as an Infidel, like your government to adopt as a sensible policy of minimum self-protection?
And if you agree with me, and with a great many of the defectors from Islam (apostates) who know best what Islam is all about, and how Muslims think, and what they say, behind the backs of Infidels, then you will be convinced that the real number is not 1 out of 10, not 2 out of 10, not 3 out of 10, but far higher.
CONTINUED.

Neither Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Azam Kamguian, nor Irfan Khawaja, nor ten thousand other articulate ex-Muslims, get any media attention for their important articulation of what Islam is, and why Muslims need to think, and re-think. Why is this? Why are ex-Muslims, the bravest and clearest-sighted of all those born into Islam, ignored by the media, while only those who stoutly cling to Islam despite the mental and moral compromises they must make and the apologetics and falsities they must necessarily swim in, are feted, fawned over and hailed? Who do the media keep wheeling out? The same old Keysars, Kurandas, Rolands and Waleeds here, and Tariq "Mr. Taqiyya" Ramadan and (Sir) Iqbal Sacranie in Eurabia.
Muslim groups in Australia (and their appeasers on both sides of the political spectrum) and abroad try to tart up Islam into a peaceful, tolerant package. Fortunately the truth continues to escape. They can’t stop it. While they attempt to divert attention away from it by race baiting (When a Muslim torches a church, it's because he feels marginalised. When a white guy torches a mosque, it's racism), name calling, and harassment, slowly but surely, the masses are being enlightened. Truth is not bigotry. Truth is truth.
Anyone who migrates to Australia and is offended by our national symbols, holidays, free speech, or in general the way we run our country is not only disrespectful, but useless to Australia as it moves forward -- as are any politicians/media who coddle them. Islamic migrants who come here and are offended or 'marginalised' by us can blame the ridicule, contempt and scrutiny that they experience only on themselves.
Tolerance goes only so far before it becomes submission. The Arabic word for submission is Islam.

Skippy
Thanks for you truthful detailed comment
Though I believe completly about what you said, it didn't address the bottom of the problem

Skid Marx
You have reached to the bottom
But what is the solution?

I guess the battle should be a battle of thoughts against the biased Media, and everybody should voice his opinion in free speech atmosphere. Those who resort to violence instead of words should be severly punished.
By talking and uncover hateful agenda we will serve moderate Muslims to have different explanations and teachings to their kids, you can't have hateful religion and say "Don't Speak about it!" your hate involve the whole society. The ExMuslim, I agree with you should be in the front line of this battle together with seculars and all others who believe in life not in death.

I guess one of the things I don't understand Boaz is how you can quite happily - despite being an obviously intelligent human being - apply such blatant double standards.

You are quite comfortable to embrace the good bits of Oliver Cromwell, presumably the pious bits, but allow yourself the indulgence of ignoring the part of his character that is vicious killer.

I'm afraid you do the same with Islam, picking out the dirty bits to rail against and emote about, conveniently ignoring the mass of Moslems who live perfectly peaceable and blameless existences.

Don't you see the parallels?

You are validating, whether you like it or not, the skidmarx of this world, who seem to revel in the perceived drama of it all. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!

It may only be a small piece of the picture, but I am sure you would follow, quick as a flash, a charismatic leader of the Mosley ilk who stood up and fanned the flames of your, and your fellow skidmarx, fears.

It is long overdue for rational people to call a halt to this. The best way to do it - as is often the case with small children - is to ignore it. Unless you happen to be in the thick of it, ignore it. It is a local scuffle, instigated by thugs, that will die down if denied the oxygen of publicity.

>>Think 'key French policy mistakes'<<

Must I? There are so many of them. The French should never have ventured abroad, they really don't like it very much. But even Vietnam eventually settled down.

Dear Pericles.

Selective Identification with Cromwell is ok, had I not rejected his military excesses, you would charge me with being a brown shirt or something. Christ is my ultimate role model (with all my failings) Though I choose 'BOAZ' on a human level. (read about him in the book of Ruth) The point about Cromwell, is that he rose to the task when the king was seeking to basically take the life out of the Church for political purposes.

He faced that ultimate struggle, where a man has to ask "Is this the time to act ?" and in terms of Romans 13 "All authorities are established by God" this must include those to are established through such means as Cromwell used, though I am loathe to push that analogy too far, specially in a democracy.

You seem to be still under the false impression that I am somehow branding ALL Muslims as 'evil'. You should know better by now, I attack:
-Islam as a doctrine,
-Mohammed as a prophet (false) and
-gang violence by Middle easterners (if you cannot see a declaration of war in the car loads of Lebanese gangs roaming Sydney and terrorizing non Lebanese, I think you need to look again)
-Bad social/immigration Policy which lies at the bottom of all the above.

The last point leads me to the French mistake in Lebanon which caused the war.

You are correct, most muslims are peaceful, though 'collective behavior' kicks in in times like these.

Prior to the French setting up the State of Lebanon, the Maronite Chrisians had a majority and therefore Political power. Prior to departure, the French included 2 extra provinces which were heavily populated by Shia Muslims in the new State. This diluted the Christian majority, and biological demographics then played a part. Shia Muslims challenged the Christian status quo, 4 Christians were murdered and mutilated, "Ka-boom" and the rest is history.

In Australia, statistically the Lebanese community is head and shoulders above all others in terms of 'in' marrying. Racial/cultural solidarity... why ?

Bottom line, BAD social/political policy= bad things happening.

Here are the current Acts and Regulations (Legislation) in force (official NSW Parliamentary Counsel's Office website):

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/scanact/inforce/NONE/0

Mr. Boaz, you may find the Crimes Act you are looking for under 'C', in the first section 'Acts in force'.

Also for the benefit of users of this forum, in addition to the Legislation index above, here is the official and comprehensive list of links to the Attorney Gerneral's Department:

http://www.australia.gov.au/portfolios#attorneygenerals

It has the following title:

'The Attorney-General's Department serves the people of Australia by providing essential expert support to the Government in the maintenance and improvement of Australia's system of law and justice.'

I would encourage everyone to familiarise themselves with the laws that they feel are relevant to them. The more people that know about the laws that govern them, the more stable and progressive our society will be. I believe that to be absolutely true.

I wish everyone who is interested in the laws that govern them good luck with their research.

In addition, below is a link to the 'Media Alliance Code of Ethics' (official website). Most media journalists in Australia are bound to this code, via their membership of the Australian Journalists Association.

http://www.alliance.org.au/content/view/17/60/

Also of interest, an extract from the Canterbury City Council's Community Protection Committee minutes from Febuary 2005:

'Canterbury Drug Action Team

Ms Field advised the Premier's Department annual funding contribution will be $1,500. With such limited funding not many options exist for new projects and past projects cannot be re-run. Current projects that will be continued include youth drug prevention project (gym/nutrition workshops at Riverwood Community Centre), Fatiha 2005 (drug prevention forum for Arabic speaking/background residents) and the methadone program research project's report is currently being finalised. The Premier's Department resource of taking minutes of Team meetings may also be discontinued. Correspondence on behalf of the Committee will be forwarded to the Premier's Department expressing disappointment at the level of funding provided to the Team.'

(original source: http://www.canterbury.nsw.gov.au/council/comm_prot/2005/comp0702.htm)

And finally, the NSW Premier's Department:

http://www.premiers.nsw.gov.au/premiers/contactus.asp

Peter West seems to think only one gender exists.
This world is a wholistic world and neither gender can exist physically or psychologically long term with only one gender.
He writes that he interviewed in Fathers, Sons and Lovers grew up afraid of his father and wanting to be like his father; second, teachers, who were respected members of society; and third, other men who kept an eye on boys.
Peter if you want to be narrow and biased in who you interview why do it. Be more broadly based.
Men do not exist without the opposite sex. Women do not exist without the opposite sex.

Being from France it is now clear to me that the faith-dominated way of life and increasingly radical beliefs of arab muslims make them ill-equipped to live in large groups within non-muslim societies without causing major social frictions and upheavals in the host countries.

There are similarities between young arab muslims living in french "banlieues" and the lebanese congregating in areas of Sydney. First is the compulsion to settle down in one sector of a suburb forcing white families and shopkeepers out, resulting in reduced "mixity" between muslims and the white majority.

Another similarity is the rejection of the official culture and the accepted ways of feeling, seeing and sensing of the "adoptive" country. Follows intolerance of non-muslim religions and vilification of anything or anyone not complying with taught muslim precepts: western way of life is decadent, white women are fair game and can be raped because they ask for it, unlike muslim girls dressed from head to toe and kept in check by the overwhelmingly patriarchal, oppressive and mysogenic muslim culture they are born in, hence obligation to wear the head scarf.

Now consider the baffling lack of inhibitions when it comes to disregarding western codes of conduct by young muslim men in the very countries where these conducts are the norm. Like in france they operate in groups, displaying aggressive behaviour for no obvious reason, pestering women, threatening passers-by, treating eye contact as an act of provocation, ignoring by-laws and be generally speaking, excuse my french, a pain in the ass in public places.

Gormless politicians have encouraged young muslim delinquents to behave anti-socially by telling them that as an oppressed minority there is an excusable explanation for their misdemeanours. Politically correct and human rights advocates, some of them in the australian Parliament, believe that the complete islamisation of Australia is part of the solution. But do not laugh. Those Lebs hopping mad on the sandy beaches of your beautiful country believe that it will happen, one day, eventually. That's what the imams at their local Sydney mosque keep telling them.

"Selective identification", Boaz, is the essence of my concerns about your approach to these very sensitive issues. It is exactly this problem that causes thugs to rampage on beaches - they "selectively identify" with an attitude, whether it is white supremacists identifying with the Aussie surf livesaver icon, or muslim hotheads identifying with oppressed brethren in the Middle East.

Your idolatory of Cromwell - the cold, vicious Puritan regicide - must be selective in the extreme. Where do you stand on the celebration of Christmas, by the way? Do you share Cromwell's attitude that "festival days, vulgarly called Holy Days, having no warrant in the Word of God, are not to be continued"?

I am equally puzzled with your identification (selective? complete?) with an ancient Jewish judge who married a much younger jewish convert and died the day after his wedding. What particularly attracts a christian evangelist to such a person?

Back in the real world, it is good to see that the tempers are cooling, and the hotheads becoming less eager to bash the brains out of each other. Soon it will be stale news, will gradually move off the front pages and the top-of-news television bulletins, and we can all get back to our daily grind without being surrounded by racist hysteria.

Peter West makes a factual error repeated by most of the media. He describes the armed attack by Lebanese gangs on the Maroubra beachfront during the night of Sunday December 11 as 'revenge' or a 'reprisal' for the Cronulla riot earlier that day.

Wrong Peter - Maroubra was organised days earlier and would have occured regardless of what happened on Cronulla beach.

The Daily Telegraph Saturday December 10 page 4 reported 'Gangs take the fight to Maroubra Beach'. Their story said police had intercepted a text message ' urging Middle Eastern gangs to start trouble in the Eastern Suburbs instead of Cronulla. The message urged troublemakers to go to Maroubra on Sunday because the heavy police presence at Cronulla would prevent a confrontation.'

So the convoy of thugs who smashed and bashed their way down Maroubra Rd and along Marine Parade that Sunday do not even have the excuse that they were fuelled by righteous indignation over the assaults on Lebanese at Cronulla.

Why attack Maroubra? I suspect their pride is injured by the knowledge that if they ever tried to muscle in on Maroubra beach they would quickly be shown the door by the 'Bra Boys'. Hence a night attack. it was the Bra Boys who drove off the Lebanese gangsters that Sunday night (while the police made themselves scarce) - one of many unwritten stories of the past week. The Bra Boys gang are are no angels but I'm not the only Maroubra local who is glad they're around at the moment.

SALADIN
.. thanx for that background, appreciated. Can you give us some about you ? Your nick is that of a Muslim Ruler, Youre Muslim ?
If yes, your welcome here anytime with that honesty and loyalty.

PERICLES
rather than just google 'Boaz' and lift a bit out of some Jewish traditions, why not go to the source and read the book itself. Its much better and only then will you begin to see the beautiful picture of social responsibility, self control, and Love for God that 'Boaz' manifested in his character. The 'died the day after his marraige' is not in the book itself. The book is also a gold mine for any would be anthopologist exploring Israelite culture and social welfare structures.

SMS CAMPAIGN has anyone considered running a 'flashmob' event which actually has the right motivation ? Would be a good idea. We can all ask in unison why the '5 youths of middle eastern appearance who had 2 baseball bats' were only 'spoken to' by Police and released ?

Its amazing how a 'seriously offensive weapon' like a Baseball bat becomes 'just a bat' in the hands of a Middle Eastern youth, but a 'branch' in the hands of an Anglo who is in fear of his life in Penrith from marauding car loads of 'Lebs' is arrested, charged, convicted, and jailed for 4 months on the day !

For all those speaking about 'racism' we need to address it where it actually is. THE POLICE or should I say 'their Political masters' ?

Peaceful Protest.. yes, I dream of 50,000 peaceful citizens marching down Telopea Street, saying "Love your neighbour" or speaking prophetically at the Police HQ as in a previous post, and at the Courts. Maybe an SMS could achieve this ?

IMPORTANT. I urge all those of Anglo/Euro background, to solidify your own kinship and cultural ties through conversations. I urge you to reach out to Maoris, Southern Euro Migrants, Islanders, Eastern Euro, Indigenous, in fact to all who are not seeking to 'take' Sydney for themselves.

Every time someone who is not a minority in this country stands up for their rights they are racist or dare I say it a Nazi(of the neo kind).

The disturbance at Cronulla happened as a result of one culture not respecting another culture.

I'm positive anyone could have gone to the beach at Cronulla and been left alone if they in return left the locals alone.

The racist card is pulled out at every opportunity. It is easier than admitting there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Calling young women sluts is not a recipe for peace. Bashing lifeguards up is not a recipe for peace.

Boaz, thanks for your advice on how I should conduct research on the web. The book of Ruth is only one source of information on Boaz, there is a plethora of reading in the Jewish canon, that broadens the view considerably.

For instance, at jewishencyclopedia.com you can find out that "Boaz is identified by some rabbis with the judge Ibzan of Bethlehem. It is further said that he lost all his sixty children during his lifetime because he did not invite Manoah, Samson's father, to any of the marriage festivities in his house. For, since Manoah was at that time without children, Boaz thought that he need not consider on such occasions a childless man who could not pay him back in kind"

On the other hand, "[a]ccording to Josephus, Boaz lived at the time of Eli. Boaz was a just, pious, and learned judge, and the custom of using the Divine Name in greeting one's fellow-man formulated by him and his bet din received the approval of even the heavenly bet din"

What fascinates me is the way that these matters remain a mystery to us today, with scholars continuing to argue over the background and deeds of even such familar names as Boaz and Ruth.

By the way, you are getting to be a little out of step with the world. The vast majority has moved on from the rabid "let's get 'em" phase, into the calmer waters of reason and rationality. You still seem to be stuck in rabble-rousing mode... albeit with the caveat that your rabble "...actually has the right motivation."

In case it of interest, I am cross posting from http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2005/12/14/after-the-riots/#comment-39090 :

Isn’t it time we questioned what is the point of crowding so many people together in major cities like Sydney?

Whether or not we can legitmately label one side or the other ‘racist’ in these conflicts, I think that the likelihood of these conflicts occurring can only increase as we crowd more and more people into already overcrowded and unpleasant cities. Having lived in Sydney on and off since 1979 and only last year, the character of the place has been almost totally ruined in that period of time with much of the skyline having become infested with ghastly high rise apartment blocks and much of Sydney’s roads in state of gridlock.

If we must increase Australia’s population, then at least let’s try to decentralise properly and not hope that we can squeeze yet another million each into both Sydney and South East Queensland in the next 20 years with unpredictable social consequences.

Pehaps it’s time we questioned all of those economists who have insisted that Australia’s economy will collapse unless we constantly increase our population until it reaches at least 50 million. It seems to me that they are nothing more than mouthpieces for land speculators and property devolopers.

Interestingly, an economist working for the Property Council of Australia actually stated more than one on ABC Radio National’s Austalia Talks Back in May last year, that the property ‘industry’ was looking to an increase in immigration to lift the industry out of its ‘doldrums’, that is to dirve up the prices of houses even further beyond the already obscene levels close to the half million dollar mark.

If you read the property speculation sections of the newspapers, they seem to well appreciate the relationship between Australia’s population levels and the price of real estate.

It seems to me that the riots are, in part, the price we are all paying for the unearned windfall profits earned by property speculators in previous decades.

I may have a fairly simplistic view as to the goings on recently, however, I don't see why I, as a person who was born into and grew up with the Australian culture has to suffer ALL the time. We are having our way of life altered so much, so that WE don't offend THEM with our cultural views. Xmas is a prime example. This is our culture. We should have to change Nothing. If imports and even born again imports get offended, so what. If I went to live anywhere else in the world, I would have to fit in there. Why doesn't the same apply to this country.
We will always be multi racial, but we will never be multi cultural. And nor should we be.
One Australia, One Culture.