I enjoy the passion which goes into the comments. Reading the comments it's hard to believe that we - the great unwashed - are accused of being apathetic.

It doesn't matter if you're Left wing or Right wing because all comments are equal. That even applies to retired politicians. They don't show much intelligence when they are walking the corridors of parliament so why should we hang on every utterance that spills from their lips. Retirement is hardly likely to improve their thinking.

To ALL posters: keep up the good work.

Hey,

Can someone contact me regarding advertising, i would love to help the team out if i could, and hopefully my companies range of services will benefit members.

Regards

Interesting read - meeting "the family".

Your deductions regarding the Courier-Mail were spot-on as far as I'm concerned. We have it delivered daily and yet I can rarely be bothered opening it, despite being an avid consumer of news and current affairs.

Your comments on the gender mix were interesting. My impression has always been that the majority of posters are male. But then I wouldn't really know because of the widespread use of pseudonyms. As a female I understand the appeal pseudonyms have in creating a level playing field, but I would actually prefer people use their real names. I feel it would add to the openness and accountability of the discussions. In my view if you feel strongly enough to write an opinion you should be able to put your name to it

Well, that certainly explains the disproportionate incidence of left/green posts. Green voters nation wide are only 5% but 26% here. It certainly explains some of the blatant attempts at stacking the trail of posts with the party line. It is standard green operating procedure, the most conspicuous one being the multiple votes lodged by a green staffer in the recent Victorian Alpine grazing debate. He was found to have sat there casting multiple votes for nearly two hours to stack a poll.

And the income spreads are also curious. It is quite likely that some of those responses are fabricated to put a more middleclass spin on the usual left/green mantras. This would obscure the fact that a large number of hard core greens spend a very high proportion of their time on the net, courtesy of the welfare system. The missing lower income Labor voters and Coalition voters, 90% of the population, are no doubt busy making a living.

The high readership of The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age certainly explains the left, holier than thou posters. I do use my real name and am accused of being female because fatheads assume only females spell it that way. These people also get a lot of other things wrong. I'm definitely in the minority, according to the survey, which means I am of one of the few who is getting what he wants in the way of Federal Government. Nah nah na nah nah!

I like the site, and am particularly amused by those people who think that it is better to disagree with other people and abuse them than it it is to state their own opinions. What it all comes down to in the end folks, is we that all get one vote each every few years. Don't take yourselves too seriously.

Well, it didn't take long for the usual prejudice-mongers to come out of the woodwork. Of course their comments speak volumes about themselves.

viz: The preponderance of people with only one name leads me to believe that the majority of commentators to this site are Rap Artists.

I belong to no political party. I exist in a world beyond the confines of those who find it necessary to hide behind a pseudonym.

Give it a bone, Perseus.

"Well, it didn't take long for the usual prejudice-mongers to come out of the woodwork. Of course their comments speak volumes about themselves."

I was just thinking the same,Chris. Of the first five posts, two were appreciative. One was an offer of possible financial assistance. And two took the opportunity to unfairly categorise others.

Just for the record, I'm male, I live in Western Australia, I use my real name, I'm a long time member of the Greens [but don't try to categorise me because of this], I'm 71, I'm self-employed and my income is revealed only to those govt depts which legally require to know it.

OLO should consider sponsoring a big get together - one in each capital city maybe. What a hoot!

A BBQ perhaps. We could toss few ideas around over a sizzling hot plate.

Or a meal in a rezroh might be a better idea - I of course would sip chardonnay and finish the meal off with a latte' (sipped too).

The left would chatter away, quietly, as most fear getting rounded up under the sedition laws. Those of the right would engage in a robust exchange of views.

OLO might need to subsidise the meal a bit though as some of us might be effected by the new IR legislation.

The rezroh would need a menu that accommodates the vegans who would come and be able to serve kosher and halal foods.

You could recognise us lefties as we'd all be pretentiously reading copies of the Gaurdian, the SMH, The Age or possibly the New Yorker - all at the same time

We could arrange to have tables with a multicultural mix and then a few others set aside for the various races; white, hispanic, african etc - redneck could advise us on the safest kind of arrangement in order that a riot does not break out.

Alternatively we could be seated by the labels we apply to one another - we could be seated by classification, academics (say it with a sneer) social engineers (ditto), weak politicians, loony leftists, bleeding hearts,rabid right wingers, fascist and neo nazis ( they could sit together a bit further to the right), feminists and god botherers - the rest could be seated at a table for miscallaneous posters; there would of course be some over lapping of groups but people could move around. It would be encouraged in fact.

The loony left could sit with the bleeding hearts for a while and the RRW could have dessert with the neo nazis for example. Other more radical mixing would be done with caution.

I am up for it! who's with me?

Graham, I am 50 years old, and it is the first time I have had something to thank a Liberal for, OLO. Most of us realise when someone of the opposing team critisise us, to not take it personally. I have had some terrific debates here, and really love the interaction of ideas. We gain something from each other in this forum, we read expressions of others that change our own way of thinking ever so slightly, I think it is a great medium to get things off your chest, knowing that some will agree, and some will disagree, but best of all you will find communication, something sadly lacking in the 21st century, with our busy lifestyles, some of us work shiftwork, others are self employed, and executives, or small business people, or ordinary employees, we can all learn something from our participation here, I know I have, I have some really strong views, and have learnt to tone down the insults, and concerntrate on persurasion, and rational agruement. My apologies to anyone I have previously upset, I will do my best to not repeat my past mistakes. I really enjoy most posts, whether I agree with them or not, we live in a democracy, and should be proud that we do, as this forum would not exist in a different system, Merry Christmas to Graham, and to all, please have a safe and happy Christmas, look forward to reading your posts in the future, all our views are important.

hey sneeky, i'll be up for that.

now the big question.......

halal?

Graham wrote: "I’m speculating, but I suspect that men predominate in the older age groups partly because they might be likely to be still working and therefore have more easy access to computers and the ’net. For the oldest group the issue might be resistance to the technology from older women. This could be another area for research into the digital divide."
Jennifer comments: I'm speculating, but I reckon the average older woman is too busy doing the shopping, washing the dishes, cleaning the house, cooking the meals, buying the Christmas presents, looking after the grandchildren (and husband) and just can't find time for OLO. In contrast the husband has time to read The Age, SMH, Australian and OLO and post a few comments

Sneeky, I would love to attend. Where is the parteeeee to be held? Though Victoria has a lesser amount of posters..wonder why that is? Any plans on mixing the eating halfway through the event? Now, THAT WOULD be fun! My choice of food is any good nosh without fruit added to it (pet hate - oops some of my personal likes showing?) I do not like latte, prefer very strong coffee, love everything strong flavoured - hmm maybe something there for the psyches (not psychos) out there. By the way, I am 53 young, a bit of a groover from way back, with strong opinions and a laugh that can be heard across a crowded table. Femme too.
Note how the love mode is happening here people? - I give it approximately 2 hours for the soot to fall from the chimney. This is fun though, and I appreciate the report. Good work.
Shonga, Sneek, Bronwyn, Mahatma, Bushbred to name a few, I love your posts and your passions, keep posting!
p.s. Shonga, I immediately say ~Sic em Rex~ soon as I see your name on a post, you have become a favourite of mine. Do you have a fan club yet? Shonga for PM!

Hmm, well, seeing as we are currently in a happy happy joy joy phase of discussion, I'd also be up for OLO shenanigans, either in Canberra or Melbourne. For the record, I'm 23 & female. As many of you will have guessed from my ranting in the feministy areas of the site :)

Just to age me, I am dropping in my Zacs worth of comment.

I am an expatriate returned home after almost 30 years away from this Nirvana to find what? Politics are as corrupt here as they are overseas – we have a prime minister who will not even lie straight in his coffin, an opposition leader? (sic) who has all the intelligence, form and appeal of a fresh cow pat on a hot day – and the general populace, with the exception of the majority of the posters here (I know which side of the butter to put my bread on) who swallow without question the lies, lies and damned lies of all politicians, thus showing that they have, collectively, somewhat less intelligence than a dead amoeba.

Here was poor naive me, a poor and what ill educated man actually despising the yanks for voting a coward and deserter as president – when in actuality we as Australians have now abridged our duty to our children and our children's children, by allowing this strutting little minded fascist unfettered power over us.

Why have you all, so obsequiously, allowed this little man to gratuitously tread you all into the dirt? Are you all mindless – without courage – or have you all had your spirits broken?

Hello Graham

Thank you very much for the feedback. Very interesting reading.

SHONGA - you stole my thunder. Great post. I too, am trying to alter my posting style and be more considerate of others.

Thank you Graham and all OLO posters
Seasons Greetings to All
Cheers
Kay

Well said Kekedinka (hope I spelled that correctly) as for my zacs worth, I agree with you wholeheartledly, and I was only away 3 1/2 years! I cannot believe the apathy, and worse, the change in the political landscape, the lack of media attention on the Government,. Very few journalists question and hold the Governments feet to the fire, so to speak. Even the IR reforms barely created a noise until the last couple of months, and yet these reforms will affect everyone. Hopefully, with people posting on sites such as this, they may also be speaking out.

Great analysis Graham,
Well it is Christmas the season of good will! Count me in for the online party. But it sounds like we do not need one, as the sweet wine is already flowing as all are exchanging confessions on their bitchiness. Characteristic of too much wine.

May the spirit of good will still prevail when we realise we have exposed ourselves. May all of ill will lay down their arms, and bring alms for the dispossed.

May all persons of good will have a great Christmas. If you are bringing presents I'm a 65 semi-retired male.

Have just been enlightened by jennifers post-- I now know why,being an older woman, i have time to enjoy OLO.. I spend minimum time on the domestics listed, have no grandchildren and have no particular Xmas shopping to occupy me. Actually, its my spouse (still in the workforce) who doesnt have the time (or much inclination) for political blogs,newspapers and the like.I did note I slotted into a mere 5% bracket of the responders..Anyway, i also appreciate the OLO links to the other blogsites: their divergent views are far more instructive than revisiting one sided positions only favouring my personal opinions..I prefer the pseudonym system for these OLO contacts, as it's too easy to form incorrect personal impressions etc from a few words, which can't be rebutted as easily or instantly as in a face to face or telephone situation.. Also, i like the originality of some of the nicknames and the visions they conjure..thks to all..

The analysis was fascinating to read. I post sometimes and enjoy the debate. I wish people were occasionally less overtly rude, but uncouth is just plain Australian. I am female and prefer the application of anonymity in debate so we can play the ball and not the man.

Bronwyn

You wrote; “I would actually prefer people use their real names. I feel it would add to the openness and accountability of the discussions. In my view if you feel strongly enough to write an opinion you should be able to put your name to it”.

I absolutely agree in the strongest manner, and it is with the greatest of dislike that I HAVE to use a pseudonym. Even though all of my views are in line with my employer, and I have put a whole set postings on this forum supporting my employer, I can’t speak out on my own behalf because of the paranoid fear that I may express a view that is not held by clients, thus possibly offending them and compromising our service to them. Freedom of speech is not alive and well in Australia.

Some use pseudonyms because they have to, some because it just seems to be the thing to do and the occasional one because they just want to be rude and stupid, with impunity. And a few actually use their own names, to their credit.

Boy, you touched a raw nerve over this issue! Stresses me out just thinkin’ about it.

Now I neeed a bit of stress relief. Sneeky, leeed mee to thee parteeeee.

Very interesting analysis Graham. I’m not surprised by any of the stats – all makes perfect sense as does your suggested rationale behind them all. Also love the way it has brought out real positivity in all but a couple of the respondents, many of whom have shared a bit more info about themselves.

Well then, I’m somewhere between 20 and 50. Right into sustainability issues. A botanical, geological, geomorphological, ecological, botanical obsessive twitcher (of the birdological variety) botanical nutcase from way back. Former state candidate for the Qld Greens but no longer associated with the Greens in any way, since the Tampa incident.

I have been on this forum for four weeks and look forward to years of wonderful friendly tactful debate with ye all.

Sneekeepete

Enjoyed your vision of an OLO get together - though I think the happy family idea might be a bit ambitious knowing the strength and diversity of opinion within the group!

Not sure about the chardonnay either. The elitists and upper crusts might consider it a bit passe'.

Regarding the coffee latte' - I know sipping is important (while chattering), but politically-correct do-gooders are particular about their caffeine. It would have to be organically-grown fair trade coffee. Perhaps green tea would be better. The hard-core greens might appreciate it.

There could be a problem with the seating arrangements too. I doubt Redneck would want whites, Hispanics and Africans in the same room.

Hopefully you get some more suggestions. And that they are of course polite ones!

Ludwig

Appreciate your explanation for choosing to use a pseudonym. Who needs sedition laws - we're being cowered into silence without them. Won't say anymore, don't want to drive you to drink!

"Former state candidate for the Qld Greens but no longer associated with the Greens in any way, since the Tampa incident."

Very interesting. I'm assuming your conservation passion has come before your compassion on this one. I know this issue presents a difficult tight-rope. I'm a conservationist too but might have weighed this one up differently to you by the sound of it.

I do use my own name, am a married, jewish male of 30 years. I would have to be subsidised as I am a student AGAIN.

However, do we have to use all of the various seats, allocated dependent upon classification? I would need many seats.

Perhaps Father Dave could break up the fights? (perhaps Father Dave could end up in one depending on whether any far right israelis attend)

I do like this forum, as it provides an accessible onlie discussion, most contributors to which are willing to argue for their point of view. I do appreciate an argument, however I would prefer they remained free of defamatory comment, only where such may bring about a response from the authorities. In the main defamation on such a forum is comparatively harmless, and an acceptable part of robust argument.

I'm male and 35. On economic issues I regard myself as right wing. However my views on civil liberties (ie freedom to stuff your life up with your drug of choice, freedom to own a firearm etc) makes me refer to myself as a libertarian. Ironically even though I support John Howard on lots of things, he annoys me with his opposition to drug decriminalisation and civilian gun ownership.

I have always enjoyed reading. Thanks to OLO and other web forums I now also enjoy writing. In fact in the last 5-6 years my writing ability has improved significantly.

I do find the tone of this place left wing. I suspect that a sample of the article authors would show a similar result. Most of the articles seem to be statist in their outlook.

Typically I enjoy the discussions generated by a given article far more than the articles themselves.

You can hear more of me at: www.libertarian.org.au

Graham ,I think I've developed obsessive,compulsive opinion disorder.Does Online Opinion provide special counseling to avert this impulsive,ego centric destructive force?Is there someone I can sue for my own inadaquacies?

Really it is all getting just too out of hand.I mean letting plebs such as myself infleuncing public opinion with few academic qualifications,well there should be a law against it.

Merry Christmas to all.Remember no one has the monopoly on truth or wisdom,even with all the qualifications in the world,since you'll never really know what it's like, unless you've been there.

Arjay, I echo your sentiments, and feel that we now have a support network of obsessive compulsive opinionators - OCO'S. (well at least 2 of us) If I do not get my hit of reading, writing and generally voicing out into cyber space, that I am not a complete person. Is this malady curable? Are we the chosen? Are we cast forever into the chasm of voice and echo? Have I the right to voice, without necessary qualifications? Oh dear, Sneek, please pass the merlot, I may even be daring, throw caution to the wind, with a hit from the past, a nice cool Harvey Wallbanger.
Do we have to put on a toff voice at this party? Strewth!
Anyone wishing to join the OCO's please hold your hand up, as long as you can still type with one hand that is.
Thank you Arjay, I do not feel so alone.

To Arjay,Tinkerbell1952; I think we all suffer from the above affliction, however this is part of a true democracy, where informed people discuss the issues of the day, in a passionate way. It is difficult to remember my bottom line, when I visit this plsce, which is " The opposite of the 'Right' in politics is 'Left' not 'Wrong'. People can have differing opinions, and still be correct as offten, and wrong as often, because we are falible human beings. We can still be Christians, jewish, ,muslims, buddists etc, whether left or right, and are still able to be worthwhile human beings." I am so passionate in my beliefs, that I tend to get a bit carried away, which probably happens to a lot of us. This makes me act first and think about the consquence later, in some cases, however does not change the gravity of my opinion, only the way I may express it, if I had the chance to do so again, sadly once you have pushed the 'post' button, it is too late, so my New Year's resolution will be "try to concerntrate, before posting" which for me is a little difficult, as I have illness to contend with. Tinkerbell1952, I love your humor "do I have a fan club?" if you are a fan, it could very well could be a misjudgement, as I am no different to anyone else, and also enjoy your 'posts' and those of Aaron,hedgehog and many others, I do have a "sic em" approach, have had all my life, I am just pleased that you find it enjoyable. Remember, I would have nothing to "sic" if it weren't for posters like the usual suspect, so you could also thank her/him for providing material for me to attack, I think despite our differences, we are one big happy family, with all of us relying on our friends and foes, and I look forward to future interaction with glee. Thank You one and all for your company, it is a pleasureable experience.

Gidday to all!

Three cheers to Graham for his astute analysis of OLO readers/posters.

As I suspected, there are a lot more readers than posters - c'mon people don't be shy, stop the voyeurism and join in the bun fight - it can be fun.

As Arjay and Tinks have observed, it is addictive. Count me in as an OCO. Tried to stop it (previous incarnation as Trinity). Couldn't give up the habit - there are worse addictions though and I can state that I have given up on those - pretty much.

For the record, am 52, female, currently between jobs (gives me a significant perspective on IR changes), believe in live and let live and reside in cedar shack (with great view) in ranges outside Melbourne.

Enough personal info - pass me a chardy Sneekee!

Cheers

Bronwyn

You wrote; “I'm assuming your conservation passion has come before your compassion on this one.” I can understand why you may think that, but it is not the case.

I would love to discuss the issue with you, but let’s get off this thread. I have put up a post already to initiate debate, under;
‘Opening Australia’s borders’ by Tiziana Torresi (4/11/2005).

What a read, so much good stuff both in Graham's article and in most of the posts that followed. Is there any known treatment for OCO - I want to avoid it like the plague.

Bronwyn, I'm not convinced that anonimity makes a giant level of difference to peoples rudeness on this site. I've seen some of the rudest posters put links through to sites which identify them and some who stay anomous seem to try fairly hard to be polite. In my case I'm a single dad who may have to deal with C$A or the family law system again one day and who does not to be marked out for special attention by staff in either of those systems. I work for a Qld Government owned company and ocasionally comment on the dishonesty of the Government (within the limits of our code of conduct) and don't want to get sacked because someone in George St does not like something I've said.

There are posters on this site I would like the opportunity to get to know, people who I have a lot of respect for and others I find kind of creepy who I really don't want knowing how to contact me directly. Interestingly some of the posters who I have developed the most respect for are nominally on the other side of the political fence from me.

Graham, thanks again for your efforts. This site and the forum has become an important part of my life. A place to talk about important issues in a safe manner with people who I might not otherwise know and who want to talk about those same issues. A place where my understanding is challenged (sometimes in a constructive manner) and where I think I am growing.

R0bert

Hi Folx

An interesting atricle and thread giving a bit of an insight into who we all are, regardless of whether or not we use our 'real' names. I persoanlly don't like chardonay... hey i can't even spell it. I like lattes, but i prefer mocha. I am university educated , but i did a mickey mouse course. I don't consider myself a genius, but i like to try and look at something from more than one angle, even if I can't use all those big flowery words to express my opinions. :P Ultimately I enjoy reading what people have to say, and enjoy the debates. Some folks could take themselves less seriously, perhaps, but overall good points and those to the counter have been made. Insults could be less, but thats the way some folks are. Robert made a good point about the ruder ones being the most public, and the more polite being more privite about their personal details.

Anyway good article and thread, and have a good festive season and new year...CHEERS BIG EARS! :P

SM

I prefer to remain pseudonymous for professional reasons. However, I find OLO completely addictive...especially watching mesmerised from the sidelines as the Muslims and Christians slug it out on the issues of terrorism and immigration. I agree that a more international focus would be good. It would certainly get the adreline pumping with the right issues.

To the Christians I wish a Merry Xmas, to Aaron, Shoshana and the other Jews I wish a Chanukah Sameach and for the rest... a Happy Festivus.

Pseudonymity ... my main reason for using a pseudonym on this site is that I have been seriously ill for several years, with viral illnesses subsequently exacerbated by severe/extreme work-related depression. I was warned by many medical and non-medical advisors that attempting to address the latter issues with the State Govt and public service would lead to severe health damage, that the response would be vindictive and they would play dirty.

I've had little social interaction since I became ill, much of it now is electronic, I've been re-engaging through this forum and others - part of my rehabilitation. But I'm not yet ready to risk having my head knocked off, I'll wait until I'm more well. That said, I do send "letters to the editor" under my own name.

A (very) secondary reason is that I've used the name Faustino in a variety of electronic fora over a long time, in a sense it's a brand name which people might recognise from elsewhere.

A third reason is that, while I'm basically very honest and upfront, there are personal things which I might reveal pseudonymously on the web which I might be less willing to talk of publicly without the pseudonym.

It's also been interesting that the name "Faustino" has occasionally aroused speculative responses, I'm sure no one would come near to guessing why I chose that name.

OK – I see most of you know a bit about everyone else and I have only joined the pack, so I will spray a bit of my scent around – without giving too much away.

ME: – Male 60+ single Dad, beautiful obedient 8 yo daughter (no marriage proposals for her yet please :-)~) and a very definite affirmative lesbian (check your dictionary please)

PERSONAL: Excellent example of a failed Catholic education - almost spiritual, but rabid anti church, anti cult. Despise all churches and religions for the damage done to humanity. Despite having many good Yank friends, despise them as liars, cowards and war mongers.

EDUCATION: Yes – but schools today are a farce with their competency based outcomes – just who made them competent in the first instance? I am a court appointed translator in one language and I speak, read and write in 8 others (but my accent is – yeah - right not quite a native tongued)

WORK: Now retired seasick Marine engineer – I cannot take my daughter with me. Now living I sunny North Queensland – the only temperature I can appreciate.

AMBITION: Win a large lottery - Contract a very unattached knowledgeable pedagogue (male or female) buy tickets in the sharp end of a large plane and continue my education – and give my daughter an education not found in books.

HUMOUR: Facetious to Weird to Whatever as evinced by my name kekenidika, (not kekenidinka sorry) which translated means Bad Girl – (or prostitute if you prefer to politically incorrect.)

BOOKS ALMOST READ: The Truth by G.W. Bush – All the pages are blank
The True Love and John and George [Bush] – (pages stuck together)

SUMMATION: Not educated - but intelligent. Firm opinions - but not opinionated. Outspoken - but not too obnoxious I hope. Reasonable on debates – but persuadable, with good objective arguments. A good friend – but a bad enemy. I do not hate, as hate is a waste of emotion – but I dislike intensely.

COMMENTS: Can be made and will be taken on board or rejected

I just read the article and I do not fit any of the criteria. Which completely bears out my suspicion that I do not exist.
I am no one alias nobody, this can be proven by following me into shops where I am overlooked in favour of the six people in the queue behind me, I become invisible at the counters, shop assistants look straight through me.
I don't even fit anything at all.
WWWWWAAAHH!

Kekenidika,
I do not wish to be controversial on this thread, but you have identified youself as most likely to be in conflict, with all your anger.

You say, "I do not hate, as hate is a waste of emotion – but I dislike intensely."

Could you please explain and define the difference? It sounds like PC nonsence to uneducated me.

Philo - this is the thread where we get to be friendly, open and honest. Have another sip of chardy and throw another prawn on the BBQ, thanks.

Kekenidika - welcome to the forum. Check out the User Index if you wish to form an opinion or two.

To everyone I extend all the joy summer has to offer.

Peace

Graham thanks for a great website! Travel broadens the mind, but so does interesting debate. I do actually believe that by increased sharing of knowledge, reason and understanding, the internet will play a role in making the world a better place. So there is actually some hope there etc.

To those with whom I sometimes agree to disagree, sorry if I'm a bit blunt sometimes, but thats just little old me :)

For those who wondered, nope I'm not female lol, although I often stick up for women in womens issues. Thats just my sense of justice.
I'm male 52, from country WA. No big secrets about whom I am either, one of my emails is bonobo@westnet.com.au for anyone who wants to say hi privately..

Merry Xmas

I'm one of those evil posters who both uses a synonym and abuses people here on a daily basis. Then I read posts like Kekenidika's and remind myself that I have a duty to abuse people like him.

He's got a bad case of the Homer Simpsons - "Everyone is stupid except me". And of course, those of us (like me) who voted for John Howard are especially stupid.

And there's people like Chris who are self-anointed Heroes:

"I belong to no political party. I exist in a world beyond the confines of those who find it necessary to hide behind a pseudonym."

Congratulations mate, you're a superstar. P.S. get over yourself.

The fact that 26% of the readers of this site vote Green suggests that there is some serious bias that needs addressing. If 26% of the readers of this site voted for One Nation there would be outraged articles about it in all the major papers.

All good and interesting comments.

Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to everyone.

Good-oh Yob. Point taken and digested without heartburn.

I'll bet we'd all get along fine around a real table too.

Chris, 58, 3 kids, 2 stepkids, 5 grandkids, 1 dog, 2 cats. Retired from electronics and the mining industry, caring for disabled wife and living off the public stipend - thankyou all.

And just in case - Merry Christmas to all.

Cheers

I hate it when I find out my uniqueness is not all that unique. Either a large percentage of the readership copied my survey reply or I'm so bog standard on OLO as to make it hardly worth making a post.

Maybe it just means that all us terrible greenies are actually more interested in real information and debate than the hardheads who just write us off as silly treehuggers.

I want my personal freedoms, I don't want a nanny state looking over my shoulder telling me what to do everday, but I also don't want a dog eat dog type of American version of capitalism. I don't see any realistic alternative to capitalism if I want my freedom, but I don't want my freedom sold to the only power that rivals the State, ie. the big corporation. I want small business. I buy from the family owned shop.

If the so-called Liberals could offer this I'd support them. Similarly Labor. But both the big parties are too locked into the money provided by the corporates to really do anything against their interests. I used to have a lot of time for the Democrats, but lost interest as soon Meg Lees tried to make the party more like the big boys. So the Greens it is for me, at least for now that is....

Thanks Graham for the work you do and the way you run this site. Spot On.

And to everyone else, whatever festive season greeting works for you, please enjoy. Hope you and yours have a safe and happy one.

Cheers, from Chilli.
The Australian and Crikey reader, who doesn't bother with the Courier, lives in SE Qld, works for government and votes green.

I'll join the love in too.

Merry Christmas to everyone out there in OLO-Land. Looking forward to another year of hearty debate.

Graham - The Greens voting patterns of the OLO patrons doesn't surprise me. I think these kind of people spend more time analysing society than actively participatiing in it. I suppose it would include a large number of bureaucrats, public service and people who work at universities (don't know about Perseus' assessment about welfare recipients but it may have something to do with it as well).

However, this voting pattern clearly shows this site is not representative of the public at large. Any forum where the Greens vote is almost double the Coalition vote is hardly a cross-section of our society as a whole. Again it probably comes back to people analysing society as opposed to those who are busy participating (or the chunk of us who forego sleep or lunch breaks to have our two cents worth online).

On a lighter note - the issue of pseudonyms has always intrigued me. I use one because I don't want my family to suffer as a result of what I say and because this is an informal chat. I would love to see an article or survey on why people choose certain names. Maybe categorising people as using movie characters or philosophers or some self-described attribute etc.

The Usual Suspect

Chilli

Great post, agreed with every word. I too am someone who "doesn't bother with the Courier, lives in SE Qld, works for government and votes green." Nice to meet a kindred spirit and others too in OLO.

The Usual suspect

Count me out of your love-in but I will happily debate the issues with you.

Like most greens I analyse society AND participate in it. I do part-time paid work and unpaid work on the domestic front for a good proportion of the rest of my time. I resent your unfair categorisation of greens voters. In Chilli's words "we are actually more interested in real information and debate than the hardheads who just write us off as silly treehuggers".

Wow, this is fantastic. Look at all the people who've turned up.

The pseudonym question is really interesting but the reasons people are giving are a bit ominous.

On one hand I'm not surprised that there are an inordinate number of lefty readers given the leanings of media in Australia, including The Ozzie. We need to find balance somewhere and OLO supplies that. I'm one of those SE Queenslanders who wouldn't line the cat box with Qld newspapers for fear of offending the cat. On the other hand the responses to sensitive issues, particularly if there's a racial or cultural element in there, led me to expect a higher number of One Nation types.

Mostly I read without contributing and find it interesting that so many others do the same. Sometimes it's just too scary.

Lovely to meet you all.

Merry Christmas.

This thread is starting to read a bit like a personal add in a contact magazine - 53 caucasian, social drinker GSOH, likes bush walking etc etc.

As for me: 50, 4 kids, live in rural town, health professional, favorite food - japanese - favorite color blue.

But having said that I must add my congratulations ot the OLO team for maintaining a site of this nature - and to all those like minded or otherwise posters who provide the online infotainment.

As for the face to face meeting (wot was I thinking!!??) I proposed some time ago I will plan for something in the New Year - far too bvusy at the moment.

If you like Christams have a happy one. If you expect to be here in 2006 have a good one

Chilli,

You said "I don't see any realistic alternative to capitalism if I want my freedom, but I don't want my freedom sold to the only power that rivals the State, ie. the big corporation. I want small business. I buy from the family owned shop."

Perhaps you should do some reading about civil society. Here is a link to get your intellectual juices going:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society

Regards,
Terje.

Well, I'm male, 47 and live in south-east Queensland,and while I enjoy a soy capaccino and chardonnay from time to time I'm generally very uncharacteristic of the general reader of OLO except in one way - I like a good debate, and I get bored with my own views.

We're (as in the editorial team) quite attracted to the idea of some face to face get-togethers in the New Year. Thanks for the idea Sneekee (I think it was yours). It might actually help to make the forum more mannerly - harder to abuse someone when you've actually met them.

I might try another article picking up some of the threads from here rather than trying to respond to everything in a post. 350 words is limiting, plus who reads down this far in a thread?

In the meantime, there are still 20 sleeps left to Christmas, so I think it's a bit premature to be wishing anyone a Happy Christmas just yet, but keep the seasonal cheer coming.

"350 words is limiting, plus who reads down this far in a thread?"

Yes, the word limit and the 2 posts in 24 hours are quite frustrating, especially when comments get down to post-rebuttal type debates. It's pretty frustrating to have to wait 24 hours to rebut someone's obviously incorrect point.

I'm a new chum to posting, & I use Hasbeen because thats what I am, but, better a hasbeen, than a never was.
Yes the artical was interesting, but not a relevation, I have long suspected that most greens were taxpayer funded, one way or another. I have deduced that many of their posts were from taxpayer funded computers, in in taxpayer time. Chilli tipifies the mentality to me. They don't want to be told what to do, but will do almost anything to try to assert their will on others.
I have planted more trees than most of them, but no one is going to stop me cutting down one which endangers my family, or my home. I can't believe we have let such stupid ideas become law.
I am a conservationist, but no greenie. I had a system for planting trees. I'd plant a few hundred, much more than I wanted, & with a bit of help about 30% would survive. After a few years I would then thin them to what I wanted, & bung in a few more where the survival rate was poor. Now with our redicules laws, I am not game to plant any.
Some one has to be productive, in the old sense of the word. We can't all work for the government, or serve each other, If it were not for rural, & mining production, there would be no money to pay for imported computer components, among other things. Then what would the greenies do? Oh, I know, use the government funded one.

Bronwyn, I was not trying to criticise per se, just making an observation.

As a journalist I actually belong to the "analyse" society type of employment. My point though was that these type of people are the most likely to vote Greens (or far left) rather than people such as tradespeople, small business owners.

I think hasbeen is also on the money when he says these type of people are more likely to see some perceived injustice and then prescribe a solution which will not affect them.

Graham - do you have any info on the qualifications of posters/readers of OLO.

It would be good ot have a breakdown of university/tafe/high school level of education as well as further breakdown of university quals by degree.

I would assume the rate of university education would be higher for contributors than the national average.

I would also assume, judging from some of the arguments of the posters, that there would be a heavy bias in favour of arts/education degrees, over economics and science.

t.u.s.

I find some of the assumptions made by posters about greens a bit wierd - I know a few; all of them worked; some in the hard sciences some in human service delivery - none I know laze around on welfare or fail to contribute to society as is alleged here.

In fact I find some of the assumptions made here rather silly given the fairly simple stats on offer. And 530 of 99999 is a small percentage of the readership - is it 100k regulars? was it 530 regulars who responded? only the omni present Graham really knows.

As so often said: Nothing to see here. Move on

Hasbeen

Welcome to OLO. It saddens me that you call yourself "Hasbeen". It sounds so negative. From my experience the term "hasbeen" usually connotes someone who has lost the plot and offers nothing to society.

t.u.s.
Yes, good idea. I am also interested in people's academic and pragmatic backgrounds.

I am an early retired general nurse, with mental health nursing as my specialty for some 25 years. Work injury put me out to pasture in 1993. I actually feel like as "hasbeen" now. I have three academic qualifications to Master level. Started my PHd - but decided that my husband and quality of life was more important.

I live on the Sunshine Coast. I love cooking exotic meals (mainly curries) for my husband, and going fishing with him.

Don't mind a drop of Chardy!

Cheers all
Kay (that's really me)

Yobbo, yes the limitations for putting up postings on this forum are frustrating. I keep coming up against all three restrictions; the 350 word maximum, and 2-posts-on-a-thread and 5 total in 24 hours. But I agree that they need to be there, especially given the number of respondents.

Just so long as they work reliably and are equal for all.

Graham, something went awry with the posting rules a couple of nights ago. I came up against the five-postings-in-24-hours limit. The message said that I could post again in one hour. Over an hour later it was still the same message. I checked my postings at that stage - I only had 3 within the last 24 hours. Was still the same story an hour later.

Graham,
Most of the views here are favourable to your article.
What can I compute from that?
It means to me that if asked the question if they believed that The Moon was made of Blue-vein Cheese?
50.1 percent would say "Yes" and 49.9 perecnt would say "No".
Thus proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the moon was made of Blue-vein Cheese.

kalweb, don't be sorry for me, hasbeen is not negative, it is a, perhaps too proud, claim. You must have missed the, better than a never was, bit. I am a BSc, who was a piller of industry, before the company told me I was too important, to be ALLOWED, to play with racing cars on sunday.
Liberated, I spent 6 years sailing my yacht & working threw the pacific islands. I developed a method of building jetties on islands which could not afford a propper one. I created inovations in their tourist industries, & got greasy fixing tractors & generators that no one else could, or would fix.
I have been a national champion in one sport, a state champion in another, & I finished third in a "Hobart". My maths got me a spot as a navigator.
I was involved in small business, & breading cattle, before I decided, that doing anything productive was a recipe for poverty. So I grew pretty plants for the gardens of Brisbane & did quite well.
I have a beautiful classic sports car, I built from 2 piles of junk, & the kids old show jumpers still come when I call them.
I am a proud Hasbeen, & as I sit at the key board, who knows, I may yet change the world, for the better. My idea of better, that is, of course

Kay, I think you fell for the bait!

I don't mind advertising on the site - it's better than having to pay to visit. But please could it be advertising that doesn't feature supernumary apostrophes? As in "Viva's". AAAAARGH! My inner stickler is aroused.

Hasbeen

Bronwyn got it right! I fell for the bait. They say we get wiser with age - not me - have been gullible all of my life. Isn't it wonderful to be innocent?

Cheers folks
Kay

There was no bait offered.
What a sorry lot.

Hasbeen

I was fascinated by your post. I am sorry if I offended you. I thought you and the other poster were having a lend of me. No offense meant mate.

I am appreciative of what you have done for our country. I am glad that you have had a wonderful life.

So how did you represent our country and this state?

Who are you? Where are you?

If you are a National and State Champion, I would love to know who you are.

My experience is that National and State Champions do not use a pseudonym?

As a National and State Champion - why do you need to use a pseudonym - fascinating?

Cheers
Kay

Kay=kalweb, Hasbeen sounds as though he has had a fasinating life so far, please don't dispair at being innocent, it is a wonderfull trait, if only some of us could recapture ours.
Graham, the reason for the Christmas wishes early, was that I expect some of the family will be on holiday soon {not vacation} yet.
I also write 'letters to the Editor' under my own name, and could use it here, however unlike others in this place, I prefer not to. Although it would be interesting to be able to contact like minded souls for private discussion on some issues, is there any way to do this Graham. Regards,Shaun

Graham, can I add to Shonga's last point. It would be great to have a means to make details available to some posters without making them available to all. There are some posters I'd like to catch up with, others who I would rather have think I lived in Iceland.

Maybe a page were we could nominate users to be able to see our contact details if they want.

If not thanks anyway for this awesome site.

Cheers
R0bert

Shonga and RObert, if they cannot do a private message section, and many may not have blogs, then possibly those interested could set up a hotmail address purely for this purpose. I noted that on-line domain it would be easier to have direct contact. As for blogs, I have absolutely low skills on things of that nature, but set one up this week so that I could comment on Aarons blog. A good way to finally get to catch up. I am still unsure how to deal with the thing, but am muddling along. I figure that by this time next year, I will know how to link other peoples blogs, how to edit, and how to generally live life to the fullest as a blogger. What a name! Have blog will travel. 'Hows your blog today, Mrs Jones'...I think I have partaken too much of the chateau droppo Sneek, so better have some coffee. When is the cheese platter to be served

On other forums I use, we can E-Mail each other through the forum, with out any breach of privacy, & then take it from there if we wish.
The following would be better in that form.
I was a bit shocked to have Hasbeen queried, its not happened before,on other forums.
We had a saying in motor racing, "don't tell me what you won, mate, tell me who you beat". Its not that hard to pick up trophies, if the competition is week, or broke down, its the doing that counts. So I finished first a few times, so what, its history. When you stop learning, you can stick around, & pick up gongs, or you can try something else. For me there was always too much else.
I love the feel of a good horse giving you every thing he can. I love the feel of a yacht, ballanced, & cutting through the sea. I love the feel of a good car near the limit of adhesion sweeping through a fast corner.
When you are a young bloke, with a high performance car, & want to drive quickly, what do you do? When you are a 29 year old batchelor, with a yacht, & a few bob, & you are fascinated by the storys of WW2 coast watchers, in the islands, & have read Tales of the South Pacific, what do you do?
I am not extraordinary, just a little different perhaps.
I'll give you a couple of examples though. A school teacher at an atoll 100 miles from anywhere. If the generator breaks again, it means no radio, & the only contact is a government ship 4 or 5 times a year. The people had to build the school, & a house to get him.
The people asked me to take 9 of their kids, 15 year olds, girls & boys, to another island, 400 miles away, because blood lines meant they could mot marry at home. When I did, the other island sent 6 of theirs back. There is no comunication, there in different countries. Thats extraordinary.

Hasbeen, Some of think of you as extraordinary, what a lovely change to hear from a person who has seen and done so much, obviously has a few bob, and retains his humility. If in the future I disagree with anything you post, please don't take it personally mate, it will only be a difference of opinion, and I would most certainly would not deliberately hurt your feelings, you are rare bird, a well balanced individual, not all that common in this place, where we have a great many opinionated people, including myself, I will look forward with interest to reading your posts, and hope you find your stay with us a pleasent one, Regards,Shaun

No SHONGA, I do not as you think, have a few bob.
This is not a bitch, I chose to spend my most productive years playing games. Then I chose [with a little persuasion] to start a family when in my 40s, not a way to produce wealth.
What I do have , & this is a bitch, is an asset, & because of this my family live on less than the pension. I can only count 2.5 acres as primary place of residence, the rest is asset. This is one of the most insidious of our welfare traps. I receive $8 per fortnight, & thank you tax payers, & health care card.
I could sell the place for enough to buy a nice house in a nice suburb. Believe me I have thought, a number of times, of shooting our old horses, & doing just that, but only for a second or two. They have given us too much for that, & I could never entrust them to someone else's care. Besides, I cant not apply that solution to my 94 year old mother, in her granny flat.
I am not allowed to subdivide off the 2.5 acres, & sell the rest, as councils are frightened future owners may demand the services, demanded by city folk & those in remote communities, water etc.
It is dificult giving our youngest daughter, still in high school, the advantages the older ones had. I have a rye smile as I spend
$20 on petrol to take her to & from the part time job, where she will earn $25, but I believe the best thing we can do for our kids is to teach them that they can have anything, if they will work for it. She does enjoy ariving at worw in my shiny old sports car, which is just as well, as its the only one I have.
We have a great life, but do get a bit short with others bitching, about their lot.

Dear Hasbeen

I think it is wonderful that you are rearing your children with such good values. And that you are caring for your 94 years old Mother! You may not be rich, but you have certainly had an enriching life as a result of your own efforts. Good on you.

There is another thread that you will no doubt find interesting, vis a vis: "Be Happy, Not Rich" (or similar words).

Cheers mate
Kay

PS: Graham - I too like the idea of contacting selected others as suggested above.

Oh dear an innocent comment about a few bob has indeed upset you, my friend, sorry about that, I assumed you had because of your yaughting, I know they are not cheap. as Kay said above be happy, not rich, this is my attitude, as long as your happy mate, that's all that is really important, I'm sorry my assumption was incorrect, and I feel your pain, and agree with you that the best thing we can reach the young, is to enjoy a good day's work, and I add manners, all the best mate, Regards,Shaun

Shonga,(and others of course) I linked to the yahoo On Line Opinions group (click the red forums section on the browser - and then click on email discussions. Join up, and bingo! There appears to be many discussions occurring over there with a great many dissenters and accusations of right and left - just what the doctor ordered ey? Apparently I am a lone female though I do doubt that. OK everyone, back to the dinner party....pass the chardy ta!

Tinkerbell 1952, I cannot find you on other sites, so at risk of the rednecks of this world emailing me my email address is shonganewman@bigpond.com hope to hear from you, Regards,Shaun

Graham, I don't think this was quite how you intended it to happen, but I do believe I've met the family over the past few days. The Cronulla riots have brought more than a few true colours. And the family turns out to be rather different from my expectations. Uncles (or aunts) I thought I'd hate turn out to be quite decent, nieces (or nephews) I had a soft spot for turn out to be frightening, and much more in between. Good, bad, and strange, it's been. But next time you think we ought to get to know each other better, could we just stick with drinks? Race (or not) riots are just a LITTLE excessive.