Turning the argument on it's head, I think there is a good case for regarding the unbridled love of money as being an ancient religion in it's own right.

Looking back down the corridor of time, it's easy to see how primitive love of money has thrust other religions aside right up to the present moment.

With that in mind, the entepreneurial preachers might be regarded as super-realists.

They are merely attempting to join the mother-ship.

Hallelujiah....I'm comin' Lord....!

Its not only the financials they are after. Look at their use of child welfare and protection to leverage the morals of society.

Their work in child welfare allows them to play with legislation and practice, as well as taking away children from those they don't like.

Today it's drug addicts, and (still) single mothers, in the past it was aboriginies, migrants, and in many cases, mixed marraiges (racial, as well as religious).

They especially liked removing children of interfaith catholic and anglican marriages.

Institutions they ran, from laying in homes, and private hospitals were up to their eyeballs in stealing children for their adoption trade. They certainly weren't adverse to breaking supreme court laws to do so!

Anyone who believes that Australia is not a church-state run nation is seriously deluded.

A small look at the practice and administration of child welfare should be enough to convince everyone that church-state initiatives and relationships are highly damaging and dangerous.

Ask the 92 kids who died in NSW last year who were known to the church-state agency, the NSW Department of Community Services.

That will be the 92 kids who died and nobody gave a stuff!

I think it got a whole 3 inches in the Australian media!

At that rate, DOCS and its Church mates will be responsible for 1000 child deaths in a decade. Because the churches are involved, everyone will be happy to accept DOC's continual ineffective reform 'efforts'.

And despite DOCS giving almost half of its $1 billion + budget to the churches each year- evangelising agencies that have year after year had qualified auditor statments issued in their annual reports (except for the lucky ones who were incorporated under a State Act who are required by law to hide their financials!)- there hasn't been one investigation by the NSW Independant Commission Against Corruption.

Now in tyhe last decade- DOCS has given churches billions of dollars, and even with the cover up of sex abuse by staff and clergy- and their claims that they don't know what child abuse is!- still no investigation.

HMMMMMMMM

Hillsong has been visited by both Mr Howard and Mr Costello. At their recent conference a prominet visitor was Joyce Meyer Televangelist from the US. She according to an article in Christianity Today was being investigated by the IRS. She was paying herself and her husband to much for what was supposed to be non-profit org. Her children and Inlaws served on the board, she bought holiday homes for her children, the landscaping was paid out of ministry funds.
Hillsong is indirectly associated with Family First. Other Pentecostal churches are also. In Beenleigh Christian Outreach Church asked te local Family First candidate to speak to the member on a Sunday before the last election and asked for support at the polling booths. No other party was asked to speak.

the church is the people who attend...my friends and i attend church...we do not 'fleece' people...we believe that if we have extra prosperity, we give to others who don't...none of us has been 'fleeced' by the church leaders or impoverished in any way by attending church...some of us have money and some don't...there is a belief that the bible preaches against money...it preaches against greed...there were many wealthy people in the new testament church who financed the many charitable endeavours of the church...perhaps this is the crux of what many of you objectors object to...you dislike the church having enough money to carry on what it does...unfortunately we live in a material world and things require money...maybe you'd like the church to lay down and die....sorry, but we're not ready to do that, not now, not ever...get used to it

People out of their own envy or lack of contentment are always looking to slander others. These prominment preachers do not hold down people to purchase their murchandise nor do they carry people into their meetings. So who cares? Is it there fault that people enjoy there words and find liberation in their books? It says in the Bible that some preach Christ out of envy some out of selfish ambition and some out of love but what does it matter as long as Christ is preached. God is judge. I do beleive that ministry funds should always be accesable to the public certainly when we are dealing with ministries of such a size. However i wish people would stop looking at ministers to put them down. It seems that most people have a fear of God but not a faith so seek to justify their lack of faith by putting down others as a means of appealing to their own consciences that the selfish life they are living is fine.