Dear Planetgrad,

the Us doesn't use countries such as Jordan, Egypt and Syria to get around western values, they use these countries to interrogate people who are from these cultures, who walk all over western weakness of decency and human rights, as it is the only way to get them to say anything more than, "when is my next smoke break uncle Sam", as he laughs at the stupidity of the western "tough guy".

Sure, it is a horrible thing to have to support but most of the world is still a horrible, cruel place.
Ask yourself this : What would Satan do if he were in heaven where say, for arguments sake, all of their resources were left in the open for anyone to use anytime? He would ofcourse steal all the resources, wouldn't he?
The more evolved culture doesn't produce people who would act so selfishly. So, to compare to the terrorist who the US gives to Egypt to interrogate(like Mr Habib), western ways are too far ahead of this person to be able to be effective, so we hand him to his own culture, as sad as that may be. It is a simple case of survival, not wrongness.

Matthew

The inherent evil of your logic speaks for itself.

If the US (and China and Russia) does indeed need to dance with the devil to get results, this is indeed State terrorism.

The US then losses any legitimacy to lead except through fear.

If the US interrogation/torture campaigh is working so well why is it losing the war in Iraq and blowing its brass?

I'm off on holiday for a week.

Till then.

Plantagenet.

Matthew
Three small points. 1) You state that the US does not use torture except for ridicule. But there have been charges levelled of people who've been given electo-shocks to the genitals. Doesn't that meet the definition of torture?
2) Let's say that the allegation of elecro-shock are all false. Unlikely but let's say so for the sake of argument. Then if I have a prisoner that I wish tortured & I hand him over to another country KNOWING that my prisoner will be tortured I am an accomplice. Guilty before the fact. Since all I am doing is rounding up suspects for someone else to torture. That hardly means my hands are clean. The US does this, that is a fact admited by the president. It follows therefore that the US government is an accomplice to torture.
3) as to the efficiency of torture many, many people have pointed out that TORTURE DOES NOT WORK! People will say anything under torture to get it to stop. Want proof? read the accounts of the inquisition where people admitted to being witches, having sex with the devil & flying on a broomstick just to stop the pain. Terrorist suspects will do exactly the same thing. Do or say anything you like just to stop the pain.
Finally you raised the question of satan in heaven & what would God do. I have a question for you. If Jesus were here now whom would Jesus torture & how would he torture them?

Despite national statistics to the contrary the spate of armed robberies, murders, rapes and hijacking has exploded out of control in South Africa. Violent crimes are knocking on the doors of everyone we know and care about. This country has spiraled into a cesspit of doom and lawlessness where the state is unable to protect its citizenry. You know I am tired of being spoon-fed absolute hogwash by the ruling party and those in positions of authority that this place is coming right, it isn't. Only Colombia shares a fate worse than South Africa as this is totally unacceptable. I cannot name a person in my family who hasn't been the victim of a violent crime, from hijackings to armed robberies and so forth. This is totally unacceptable. Corruption is rife, from the higher echelons to the traffic authorities and prison warders. How does the government propose to create a new mood in this country if the very fabric of our woven democracy is inherently flawed. The complete lack of respect for the very essence of human life is rife in this place; the complete disregard for morals and ethics and the desire to participate in violent criminal acts and women abuse and raping of children is nothing less than sickening. What type of savages are these criminal elements among us? It is time to priorities government spending and government commitment to this country. This has got to stop, it is absolutely and unequivocally unacceptable! This is unrelated to torture however in a macabre way it is the citizenry of South Africa who are tortured by these tsunamis of crime.

Brett Chatz
Waverely
South Africa
http://www.brettchatz.com

bosk: When 'your gentle Jesus' returns He will not torture as such but, according to the Bible, He will kill thousands, even millions in Mediggo.
In the tribulation, before this killing, there will be first, is it a third of mankind slain then a quarter of those remaining or the other way around. Whatever it is a lot of deaths and no doubt many will die in agony as if tortured. numbat

What sort of Moocher came up with that?
Most Australians have been tortured psychologically for 30 odd years by the mediocrity of underachievers and legalized thieves. Whilst all our institutions have been taken over by Looters and laws made to protect them from us. I’m not a terrorist, nor do I know any, Angry and pee’d off, but then again in a small underachievers way you might have a little point about torturer, but in true Moochers psycho Epistemology, the real perpetrators yet again become victims: I’m made to feel guilty whilst they steal my everything. Bad luck, the Moochers, Looters and criminals and the murderers thieves are the bad guys not us. Something for everyone else to remember before you an any surrenders to existentialism and the habitual criminality they advocate. If anyone is excused for terrorism it is us, but we don’t stoop that low, nor shall we, nor shall we excuse it, nor shall we call it something it is not-and that’s Tolerance. Goodbye