The whole education system stinks.

The brightest and best are hardly ever the best academically, they find it boring, monotonous and many lay undiscovered until they get the chance to shine in life. As you know, the most successful do not come from the top, they come from the middle and upper ranges who sail through their academic life, many under the rader.

Whilst testing etc should be looked at, it should be a measure of differing things, not how much you can reconstitute back on paper.

A persons intelligence is not tested, yet this should be the basis for how they learn.

As long as we can read, write and communicate by the time we leave, that is all that matters.

Kevin Donnelly is right that reading should be a priority when teaching children. It is universally held that people with inadequate literacy skills are severely disadvantaged throughout their lives in a number of arenas, from the most basic means of interacting in society to acquring and maintaining employment and ensuring ongoing financial security.

Kids who read early, read well and have good comprehension, often come from homes where reading is encouraged and valued, and similarly where learning and education are seen as worthy pursuits. This is one of the challenges for increasing literacy amongst the children of parents who have had unpleasant school experiences: because like it or not the biggest influencing factor on children's attitudes to school (and their teachers) are their parents.

I don't agree that the whole education system stinks. Schools provide kids with a great opportunity not only to learn the kinds of skills we expect them to have, but also to interact with their peers, from a broad range of backgrounds and life experiences. What programs like 'Reading Recovery' have attempted to do is to reduce the stigma associated with reading difficulties and address the problems before kids progress through the school system. While they mightn't be perfect, it's a far cry from the "passing up or dropping out" of years gone by.

Education is no different to any other subject, it is difficult to say one person is correct, and the other is not, when it comes to opinions,as we each carry our individual experiences. To be perfectly honest I think both of the previous opinions have merit. My daughter is in Grade 1, and is excelling because of parental attitude to school and the teaching process in general, however as the first poster says some are intellegent, without transmitting that to paper in an exam. With the constant interruptions mentioned in the story, teachers must be at their wits ends, in trying to second guess what it is they are supposed to be doing. I only have praise for my daughters teachers, they have been very professional in their approach, take on a multi-facited approach to their work, and really care with a passion for their students. They have a difficult job to do, but manage to do it well. I of course can't speak in general terms, however the teachers I have encountered have been of the highest quality,I believe as a community we should be putting more resources into this field, as these children will be our future.

These discussions are one of the reasons I made sure my three children all were able to read before going to school. There are so many distractions in the classroom, plus the extreme variable of a competent or incompetent teacher in front of it, that allowing your child to go to school unable to read is like buying a lottery ticket. You might get lucky, but equally you might miss out.

I have absolutely no faith in "the system" being rectified in my lifetime, an observation based on the fact that the problem has not changed since I was at school. Given that today's classroom is noisier, less regimented and the teaching less structured than in my day (and more fun, by the way) I can't see an improved learning environment emerging for a while.

I agree with Realist, who eloquently understates the in-your-face obvious - "The whole education system stinks."

And I agree with Pericles, who correctly identifies that he has -"absolutely no faith in 'the system' being rectified in my lifetime".

So there you go, the system stinks and it isn't going to be un-stunk for quite some time. So why do clever people like our Mr Donnelly here keep writing polite opinions about it and not actually do something about it?

We already know the problem exists but we can't change it. Imagine me writing a letter to the local Board of Studies or whatever saying, "Now, look here you chaps, this reading business, you aren't getting the job done properly it seems. Your errant ways must stop immediately and you must strart doing the job the old way."

Yeah, that'd work wouldn't it?

It's a hopeless mess, thanks to the Teachers Federation.

They're the only one's who can fix it, not us. We have absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever. Even politicians can't control them. It's useless.

And to Shonga, if your child was a boy, you might be singing a very different tune.

Kevin Donnelly has often criticised outcomes based education because it doesn't provide teachers with a 'map' to teach to. He criticises it as allowing standards to fall. I agree completely. But I don't think he's made the link between increased testing and highly structured reading programs like RR and AL and the lack of a syllabus.

With outcomes based education failing students, governments have been forced to introduce more testing to force teachers to teach to some sort of standard, otherwise standards would just keep falling. Highly structured reading programs attempt to do the same thing. They fill the enormous gap left by a teacher training system that basically says, just let kids teach themselves - here's your degree, and a curriculum that sees equal value in a coke advertisement and a Shakespearean tragedy.

It might be a pain for teachers, but as other posters have alluded, the system is not going to be fixed soon. We'll be stuck with outcomes based education for some time, so as far as I'm concerned lets have a national test every year for every child. At least then we'll know something is being taught.

What the author and all the commentators on the issue have failed to appreciate is the fact that the most recent scientific research into literacy indicates that a child's reading ability is 70% genetically determined, which means that putting added pressure on young children via furthing testing regimes will have little beneficial affect.

Moreover, one of the predictors of a child's future educational achievements is actually the number of books possessed by the household they reside in, a more important factor than how much they are read to.

As a parent of a 6 year old of above average reading ability who nevertheless was not reading when he commenced school but who has been read to since an early age, I see little evidence of a literacy crisis. Instead I am deeply suspicious of a debate that is seemingly driven by a consultant to a federal government who educational policy is overseen by a politician more interested in political stunts as a way of increasing his profile than in making substantive improvements to the educational system.

Maximus, Pray tell, the difference between a boy or girl in the education system? My daughters teachers have treated both equally, as I have been in the classroom on several occasions, and haven't noticed any difference in treatment, as I stated in my previous post, the teachers my child has had have been very professional, very disiplined {unlike one or two of the students} and give not only their genuine attention to students, both male and female, but also give their time freely to fundraisers, and school promotions, outside their normal hours, however if your experience differs from mine, I would very much like to hear your views.

Shonga,

Try this - http://www.kittennews.com/depts/mag/johng_01_boys.htm

And lt me tell you, it's 100% the truth.

Again what we witness here is the progressive degradation of society as we knew it. To understand what is happening today we have to rewind the history tape some 50 years back or so.

Two major factors happened then: the individual emancipation and the distrust /disregard of authorities. The natural consequences of that is the moral decline of our society.

What does this have to do with literacy and education? I can answer that with a question: How can we expect the morally bankrupt to act on our behalf and make regulatory rulings and guideline decisions?

The minimum requirement for good governance of a nation should be based on an acceptable level of health, education and security.

As a nation we are doomed on all three counts. But then again how can we expect change if we lost the bench mark standards to compare it to?

The moral debate should be at the forefront today if we want to save our nation from total bankruptcy.

The major problem is that teachers no longer teach.We have the duel problems of the left wing Teachers Federation and an Education Bureaucracy comatose with fear of litigation,hence teachers made impotent with red tape and regulation.
Today we seem to have many teachers neglecting their duties by finding some glamorous artistic activity such as drama that may only cater for the top 2% who will achieve anyway.The real nuts and bolts of Reading and Mathematical concepts fall by the wayside.

It was only recently that I learned that reading around the class has been frowned upon by the whimpish left since the less able will feel socially alienated.Well I said to this retired teacher who painted the present debacle,why not give all the poor readers a passage to prepare the night before an thus display their eloquence and before their peers.No, the left wing Teacher's Federation take all the soft options.

I used to think I was an average teacher back in the 80's,but now I think I did a really good job.

We need:

National program for mothers for pre school age children giving them insight and tools to provide their child with basic numeracy and literacy prior to school, i know many are aleady doing it off their own bat, but it is a case of the haves and have nots and we need to take the competitive advantage off the middle and upper class to ensure changes are effective.

Subjects introduced alongsid maths and english, including:

Property - The home is the basis and centre of wealth for Australians, and nessecary provision must me made for this understanding to be passed to all students, rather than the haves and have nots again.

Business - The growth in SME's in Australia is immense, and in the future almost as many children will be contracting/running small businesses than working in one, therefore it is Australia's responsibility to provide the tools, business skills and the like to help success rates.

Leveraging - A most essential ingredient also. Almost every person will acquire credit or levarge during their lifetime. It is Austrlia's resposibility to ensure our children understand the dangers and outcomes of credit, both bad credit and good, so they are equipped to face the world with less chance of uneducated, damaging finance decisions that ruin them before they are 25, as almost half of all under 25's at present facing this problem.

Retirement - Once again, this generation is the first generation that will have the knowledge and ability for retirement to be a choice, therefore strategies aligned with intended career path can give goals, direction and planning to a child that can also steer them on the path to a stable successful future.

We need to combine the existing fundamentals with these new ones, because at present we are not training chilren with needed life skills, they are overdone on some things and completely underdone on others. until this happens, education effectiveness will decline more and more.

Realist,

What you present is a survival tool kit that has little to do with literacy or numeracy.

We have our fair share of Entrepreneurs – very few are well educated. Our jails are full of them.

I think you are confusing the issues here. This is not about how best to survive in the marketplace but the self respect of our nation as a worldwide player.

Following my previous post I am more indignant about your (and Australia's) order of priority.

Think again

Steady on Realist old chap, there's no need to go overboard here. The first of the three Rs is under discussion, not Utopian Education Inc.

>>We need.... [a n]ational program for mothers for pre school age children...<<

The very last thing we really need is another "national program". When was the last time we had a successful social engineering experiment on this scale? Never? I thought so.

>>Subjects introduced alongsid maths and english, including:

Property<<

That's hilarious.

What kind of subject is "property", what would you teach, and who would you get to teach it? Maybe one of those get-rich seminar spruikers could put a curriculum together for you.

And anyway, how would you make it relevant to kids, whose idea of the sources and destination of finance are mum's purse and Halo 3, respectively?

>>Business<<

Given that the closest most teachers (and politicians) get to the grubby world of commerce is reading about it in the newspapers, this concept doomed from the start. Anyone who remotely understands how a business becomes successful is already working the 60+ hours a week necessary to make it so in the face of persistent government interference.

>>Leveraging<<

Now there's an idea. Get the CEOs of Australian Banks, whose companies collectively earn $2,000 in net profit taken directly from the after-tax earnings of every employed Australian, to explain to our kids why credit is bad. And get Kerry Packer to do the same for gambling, why doncha?

>>Retirement<<

Now that's a classic. Even today, the ability to retire and remain financially stable is restricted to well-pensioned public servants and politicians. By the time our kids grow up, they will have to work till they drop.

Maybe things could improve if we had fewer folk talking about teaching, and more folk actually doing it.

I think we need to get parents more involved with their children's education at home.With middle class families it probably happens naturally with bedtime stories,but with others they may be more consumed with clubbing,drinking and gamboling.

Perhaps we should be re-educating the parents,since they are the most influential beings in their children's lives.If parents don't see the value in education,how the hell can their children even know where to start?

Education will become even more important since China and India will produce all our manufactured goods and we will have to compete in higher skilled and technologically advanced industries.

Over the last 35yrs we as a society have taken too many soft options and only now are beginning to realise the price.

The problem with our education system today, is that it is designed by teachers, for teachers. The avoidance of any form of realistic testing is DESIGNED to make it impossible to identify, & weed out the incompetent teachers, of which there are all to many. That & a "career structure" for teachers which means hundreds of them are sitting in an office some where, pumping out rubish, to justify their existence.
I had 2 kids, both wanting science degrees, who went through senior physics with a teacher who's english was so poor, that neither could understand her. 3/4 of the classes were getting private coaching, & the rest, who's parents did not understand, had no chance. One of them had a foreign qualified senior maths B & C teacher who could not do junior algebra. More coaching. They were not allowed to bring home any test papers,when they did any, for us to see their weaknesses, & help, as, we found, they had been using the same test for 3 years, & wanted to keep it to use again,& again, & again. Less work that way.
When you consider that this is how the top 5% of a 1750 pupil school were treated, it does not take much imagination to realise the quality offered to the rest.

Pericles,

You are living in the real world right?

Your comments were one of an non informed person.

I will start from the top:

'National Program' comments. It would give parents added tools to help teach their child. How is that terrible? The alternative is giver them nothing and create a social divide from pre school as is emerging. Very intelligent and informed Pericles.

Property:

The most valid subject of them all. What do you know about property? By the sounds you have not created any wealth from it. It is not my fault you did not use the power of property to secure your future. a garbageman can become a millionaire by investing in property, and its proven concepts. Give them the knowledge to create wealth and let them make their choices, dont impeed them. Misery loves company, but at least let your children understand the basic principles that make up the core of every families wealth.

Your Business Comments:
Teachers are not good at it, but dont be a narky person because you pay tax and others avoid it. You CHOOSE to pay tax. You choose not to understand how to reduce and nullify your tax. You should not be paying tax, or be paying very little. But you discourage this. You discourage our children from having this knowledge. Again, misery loves company.

Now, for the best one of all, it has taken me three days to pull it together on this one! (to follow)

">>Retirement<<

Now that's a classic. Even today, the ability to retire and remain financially stable is restricted to well-pensioned public servants and politicians. By the time our kids grow up, they will have to work till they drop."

What world are you living in? We are in the information age. Retiring financially stable is done by thousands of Australians, because they planned for their retirement and in most instances, have accumulated property over time. Yes, most baby boomers will be living on a pension but the wisdom of creating wealth has been around for hundreds of years, the great thing now is that we all can do it, and for your children, if they had these tools that you obviously didnt, they wil get to choose retirement.

FYI, I finished school and went to university to study property, and now at 24 through acquired knowledge, retirement is already a choice for me now (if i want to live on modest means). Every child has the right to learn what i have to make a better future for yourself, you dont need money, you dont need this 4 years of study but you need to understand the power of leveraging.

Times have changed. We need to be robust and change with it. What i have stated above i put forward is just about the most important thing to learn. You can free yourself, and your children can actually create something for your family and the good of their children. It boils down to fundamentals:

What do you get educated for?

what do you work for?

The questions are different but the final answer is the same. And the above is what is needed to ensure the class system is taken out, and the wealthy dont just keep the knowledge. I have broken this barrier, so have other Australians. Let your child have a greater opportunity than you. It wont work? without this knowledge you have just sentanced your children to 60 years hard labour, with no parole.

Tell me it isnt needed?

Welcome back from the sin bin, Realist. It has obviously improved your temper, if not your reasoning.

Kevin Donnelly's article was about the primacy of reading skills in the teaching of children. He explained "that the reason many teachers are unable to teach literacy is because of inadequate teacher training and professional development." He goes on to point out that "many teachers and trainee teachers do not have a solid grounding in what constitutes effective literacy teaching."

Doesn't this sound any alarm bells? How can you blithely put your faith in a "[n]ational program for mothers for pre school age children" when we cannot even decide how to train professional teachers?

The simple fact is that mothers who care will teach their children to read, no matter what; no amount of "national programs" will get a mother who doesn't care to do the same.

The remainder of your comments make absolutely no sense to me in the context of teaching children to read.

>>a garbageman can become a millionaire by investing in property, and its proven concepts.<<

Problem is, if you teach everyone the same "rules" of property investment, there will be no mugs left for you to fleece, will there? It's a zero sum game; for every winner there is a loser.

>>Teachers are not good at [business], but dont be a narky person because you pay tax and others avoid it<<

That's a simply laughable notion. I thought you were referring to running a real business, and creating real wealth, not introducing the little tykes to tax evasion.

>>FYI, I finished school and went to university to study property, and now at 24 through acquired knowledge, retirement is already a choice for me now<<

Ah, that puts the rest of your comments in perspective. Nothing to do with teaching kids to read, though.

You remind me very much of a former business colleague who made a ton of money from share options, and concluded that having a big bank balance automatically gave him a brain. He wasn't shy in offering his half-baked ideas to all and sundry either.

So what is all this about Mothers being the ones to teach their preschoolers to read? Is teaching reading a gender specific task? How many of those who are actually criticising teachers have ever tried it themselves and if they have, how many have actually succeeded at it?

The teachers I know are generally hard working and caring and definitely underpaid. It seems to be a pretty tough job too me with all sorts of people feeling that they are qualified to dish out the criticism. Wouled you advise any young person to take up teaching these days - maybe they should take up property ( not that I was aware that that was any sort of career) Do you mean property development, property investment or what

No, you do not need to do property as a career, you can be a teacher, gardener etc and still achieve with property, as many do.

Now for you Pericles:

In response to national program comments:

It wont work? There are plenty of parents who if spoon fed this would put it to use. they dont have to be teachers or have a degree, they just need basics, charts, activities etc to work with their child on. Riducle if you like but i have not seen you put forward something superior.

"The remainder of your comments make absolutely no sense to me in the context of teaching children to read" have you been smoking something? These were in response to your comments, not in response to the article.

Now the next one:

"Problem is, if you teach everyone the same "rules" of property investment, there will be no mugs left for you to fleece, will there? It's a zero sum game; for every winner there is a loser"

You obviously have a wealth of knowledge on the subject, since you make rediculous statements like that. Property relies on supply and demand like most things, do you think if more people invested in property, demand for property would be down? No. And mugs to fleece? Was that an attempt at a personal attack on me? Doomsdayers like you who have an opinion on everything, appear to be intelligent yet ridicule others in an attempt to feel superior. I am intelligent enough to outperform many at my age, and the smartest people i have working for me. Funny that, do fall in this category?

(Continued)

For the record, every dollar i have made has been with honesty and integrity. My clients come first, at the expense of everything else (often myself) because our industry is changing, the internet means a client will come to you for all property in all areas, and you are as integral as a solicitor or accountant to them. You do not go very far if you are dishonest, especially in the high end where i am.

"That's a simply laughable notion. I thought you were referring to running a real business, and creating real wealth, not introducing the little tykes to tax evasion."

Missed my point again, and what is your experience in big business? Young people have a right to understand tax. They will be paying it for perhaps 40 years for goodness sake.

"You remind me very much of a former business colleague who made a ton of money from share options, and concluded that having a big bank balance automatically gave him a brain. He wasn't shy in offering his half-baked ideas to all and sundry either."

You seem very cynical and afraid Pericles. Fear has probably stopped you from taking any risks has it not? Well guess what, your intelligence is high and you can do anything, but you need to change your approach. Your children deserve to inherit knowledge from you, not your skepticism, or they will be working until the day they drop as you said, when they dont have to.

Intelligence is measured in direct proportion to success, sorry Pericles. Having the brain but not achieving is the biggest crime of all. Take a risk and you will conquer and be happy, i promise. Let me know if i can help.

Realist, it is very un-Australian to big-note yourself in this way, and you do yourself and your chosen trade no credit.

I shall ignore your arrogant presumptions as to my character, abilities and achievements, for the simple reason that you can have absolutely no idea of the status of any of them. There is a term for people who use every opportunity for self-promotion, and it is not in any way complimentary.

In case the point has been missed in our exchange of pleasantaries, I find the notions you put forward under the guise of contributing to the discussion on the importance of teaching our kids to read, to be facile in the extreme.

As far as your "national program" goes, there are many reading aids available in your local bookshop, without the need to spend taxpayers' money replacing them.

>>do you think if more people invested in property, demand for property would be down?<<

You are clearly too young to recall the meltdown of the Japanese economy. In March this year, the Financial Times reported that "residential real estate prices in central Tokyo rose by 0.9% in 2004. ...the first time in 17 years that residential real estate prices in central Tokyo have risen."

>>Young people have a right to understand tax. They will be paying it for perhaps 40 years for goodness sake.<<

There is a big difference between understanding the taxation system and following your advice to "understand how to reduce and nullify your tax. You should not be paying tax, or be paying very little".

Are you channelling Henry Kaye, by any chance? Maybe you are Henry Kaye?

>>Fear has probably stopped you from taking any risks has it not?<<

Yup, those are his tactics. You are a disciple, at the very least.

As I said, your ideas are jejune, but since it is clear that you only put them forward so that you could promote yourself, you did at least achieve something, even if only in your own eyes.

Have a great day.

Pericles,

Not interested in tit for tat. You have even pulled the big guns out, Un-Australian and big noter! Its Un Australian not to have a go Pericles, and to try to pull down others for having one. Not everyone is dishonest Pericles, i am sorry for your past experiences.

I put my cards on the table, i have given you my background to provide you an understanding of my insight. Unlike you, i am not afriad to do so.

Fair enough on your comments on my ideas. Perhaps we come from differing backgrounds, but in the country where i come from or for disadvantaged families little is available sometimes, and enormous benefit would come out of it IN MY OPINION. it is fair an justified for you do differ in opinion.

As for your 'insight' on the Japanese Real Estate market (FYI with a different system of ownership, legislation and underpinning economies), this has nothing to do with Australian property whatsoever.

I would advise to steer clear of comments on property in the future, i wont ask why you would point out that bizarre comment in this particular context. They are independant markets with absolutely no correlation with eachother. It is beyond ridiculous.

As for the Henry Kay comments, i dont know this person. I assume you are saying i am again a dodgy fleecer. Dodgy fleecers dont put cards on the table do they?

As for you saying i was trying to promote myself:

I promote property, not myself. I make nothing from schools teaching property principles at schools, as was my point.

Australian property principles have worked perfectly for 180 years, before you and i were born, and they will still be there when we are dead. This is about as sure a bet as you can get, as inflation, building costs and population growth ensure property cycles continue.

Do your own reading on it, that is the only way you will feel comfortable. But retirement can be a 10 year plan if you are aggresive and have the right financial structure. IF IT IS TO BE....

Pericles, I concur!
KD's article questions the effectiveness of teacher training & professional development. For those you interested in the reading debate there are success stories which have proven that a thoroughly researched and well implemented literacy program which includes teacher training can provide REAL outcomes for students. Follow the link for more detail.
http://www.uq.edu.au/news/index.html?article=7813

One of the issues facing teachers is the ever increasing amount of “educational material” being aimed at them by politicians, departmental bureaucrats & lobby groups all too eager to push the latest agenda. I ask the question, how many government departments employ educational officers to write material for them in order for them to appear to be doing something. If we are serious about literacy standards perhaps we should consider one of two things. (a) reduce what we expect teachers to ‘teach’ OR increase school hours.

Realist, >>Not interested in tit for tat<<, me neither. The reason I keep responding is because I hate being patronized, especially by young real estate practitioners who believe they have the answer to life, the universe and everything.

And if you believe that we cannot learn from the experience of the Tokyo property bubble, I feel sad for your clients.

>>I promote property, not myself<<

May I quote one of your contributions to another thread? "...hopefully my companies range of services will benefit members."

But even more blatantly, on this thread you took a very important issue - the teaching of children to read - and used it to promote your own external agenda. I'm sure that this fits right in with your brand of ethics, but it sure grates with me.

Once you have a family, I'm sure you will be able to see the ludicrousness of your suggestions that we should include property investment, tax minimization, leveraging credit and planning for retirement in the school curriculum. It was the utter fatuity of these propositions that led me to believe that your entire goal was self-promotion - after all, these are the tools of your trade, right?

>>Dodgy fleecers dont put cards on the table do they?<<

On the contrary, it is one of their hallmarks.

Realist,
I think you may be coming from a certain point of view. Which is fine but I believe it may be better that you understand the other side.

You stated that “Intelligence is measured in direct proportion to success”. Let’s qualify that with “I believe” shall we?

What you see as success is not necessarily what others see. What is success? How do you measure that? The amount of money you have is perhaps your measurement of success. By your argument then, if you have, say, $3million in property and 3 friends you are more successful than a person with a $400,000 mortgage and literally dozens of close supportive and reliable friends? A material view, in my opinion, is a poor benchmark.

But I do not think you see the world this way. Success is only measurable by an individual’s examination of their contentment and happiness. When you have an individual who is both to a large degree, no matter the material circumstance, I think you have true success. But then again, that is just me. As I said, the test is individual.

ON TOPIC,
It would seem to me, from reading the article, that the matter is one for the professionals. I for one cannot say whether cognitive based learning or ‘the old rules’ method (is there a proper term? Phonetics perhaps?) is better than the other. This seems to be a matter for those best skilled to work out which works better, if they should work hand in hand – or indeed at all.

My only comment would be that as parents, it is our duty to be involved in a child’s education and ensuring they complete their schooling to operate successfully in the adult world. With regards to reading, promote it – newspapers, magazines, books (especially) – even comics is a start. But engender in them the desire to read.

As another old saying suggests, nothing works better than ‘practice making perfect’.

I am just about sick of this Pericles, it is easy to be anonymous and make defaming statements against those who are transparent.

Once again, dodge this question by questioning or insulting me but i want to know what is your worldly experience? It seems to me you know little about creating any sort of wealth, or understanding basic markets so your success in any sort of business is questionable, you are pessimistic and dont hold any hopes for your children's future, and are skeptical of any Australian having a go, so where has all this come from?

Enough Now Though.

It is easy for those with no backbone who hide in cyberspace to throw things up like business integrity, i find it highly offensive and i have been patient with you on your continued accusations.

You are crossing the line now though, so i am telling you now to stop. This is the greatest insult an honest person can recieve, and with no grounds for your statements (as with most of them) you question my honesty and my ethics, and you accuse me of being something i am not.

Being 24 as you patronise me about, i like to give the grounds for my argument, and generally it may come from my own experiences. I think there are enough of you out there who dont so if you take big noting out of that, it depends what spectrum you live in.

Dont go back to my age because you get frustrated, if i can absorb what i have by 24, how does that make me inferior to you. I will attempt to be the more mature individual here from now though.

You are so aloof with your comments it shows you have a paperthin veneer, with comments like japan, you cannot explain yourself on your reasoning.

Finally, the reason kids need teachers in the first place: 'our kids will work until they drop'. No they wont, i believe in them, so do their teachers, shame their parent does not.

Your vivid imagination will no doubt serve you well in your professional life Realist, but it cuts no ice with me. I couldn't care less whether you are 24 or 94, your ideas on education belong in a fantasy world. I only brought up your age in the first place to excuse the limpness of your logic, and it was only when you declared your hand as a "get rich from property" spruiker that I detected the not-so-hidden agenda. If you see this as impugning your integrity, then so be it, I can only tell you how it comes across to me.

I'd just remark in passing that I was doing business in Tokyo in 1987 when the price per square foot of land was US$22,000, and again six years later when it was closer to $10,000 - having hit $5,000 in between. I spoke to businessmen and locals about their experiences, particularly the hardships it caused them and their families. And while I certainly don't believe that this makes me superior of inferior to anyone else, once again I simply call it as I see it.

And please, stop whining about being insulted - you seem quite happy to dish it out...

>>It seems to me you know little about creating any sort of wealth, or understanding basic markets so your success in any sort of business is questionable, you are pessimistic and dont hold any hopes for your children's future, and are skeptical of any Australian having a go<<

This is pure imagination on your part of course, but I guess it makes you feel better to think of me in these terms. And frankly, that's sad.

This is for you out of todays Courier Mail Pericles:

"EVERY child's reading skills will be tested on school entry and a literacy plan will be drawn up for them in a huge national shake-up of teaching methods.

A national report released yesterday has also recommended an overhaul of teacher training at universities and that parents take a stronger role in helping with their children's reading and writing skills."

Well well well, it seems my 'ludicrous' comments perhaps have some merit after all.

Your middle class advantage is being attacked, on guard Pericles!

Damn 24 year olds.

Also in the article on second looking:

"Workshops and guides for parents were recommended"

Hmmm, i am not Nostradamous Pericles, but I am also not as stupid as you implied throughout this forum.

CASE DISMISSED.

Glen, I'm glad you take delight in the fact that a report written for the government agrees with your point of view.

I wonder how many reports on other topics you agree with?

It might come as a surprise to you that sometimes these reports are written for *gasp* political purposes. Nothing is easier than to write any old anodyne rubbish that (like motherhood) cannot possibly be contradicted, safe in the knowledge that you don't have to back it up with action.

Reports like this also gain favour with public servants who simply love putting together the programmes to back them up, also knowing that no-one will ever take them to task on their success or failure. Very much like all those previous "lern to reed" programmes that failed so miserably that they have to think up yet another one.

So have a great day. Feel good in your moment of "triumph". In a few years there will be another report out that says something entirely different, and I expect you will agree with that too.