Hi kactus
quote "Name a person that tortured and I will condemn him or her. Xena, I don’t play games with serious issues. If Jesus or Buddha had done what Mohammed did, why would I not condemn them?"

I think that's very fair myself so here you go. In 2 Sam 12: 29,31 we read "And David gathered all the people together, & went to Rabbah, & fought against it & took it.

And he brought forth the people that were therein, & put them under saws, & under harrows of iron, & under axes of iron & made them pass through the brick-kiln: & thus he did unto all the cities of the children of Ammon." Sounds like torture to me! Let's hear your condemnation

Thank you, yes I know it may look like I am hiding behind other peoples words, but I did it try and sort through what I thought because it took me awhile to see my way through all the jargon. I thank anyone who has seen me do this and it's just me having a go. I personally found the whole article confusing.

I don't believe in controlling people attitudes I just want to see an end to the abuse and vilification in our Australian culture.

a) I meant vilification - not the word "religious" I am sorry it was an error.

Centrally I want to totally and utterly agree Philo .... "What we need is to educate people's conscience to act responsibly; not more laws in an endeavour to control people. Learn self control by good conscience. "

My thoughts are however, this is not the Australia I know just now. I feel the laws are of benefit to people (possibly like myself) - but say again, if you have access to legal costs?

miacat,
I find your post rather curious. You do not want laws to control people, but in the same sentence seem obsessed with funds for litigation .

Quote, "My thoughts are however, this is not the Australia I know just now. I feel the laws are of benefit to people (possibly like myself) -but say again, if you have access to legal costs?"

Why do you have a financial obsession about going to court. Why? How are you being vilified? Australia is an open culture where all can express what is offending them. It is more rewarding to participate in your local community rather than litigate and make an enemy because you have sought damages against him. Why are you seeking money to damage another? This not building bridges to the community it is only creating chasims. There is sufficient laws already to take out restraining orders against physical or emotional abuse. If such is happening to you see your local Chamber Magistrate. However it does not take two people to dig a ditch, try building a bridge. You never know it might work.

Bosk,

No probema (very bad Spanish, that!)

I totally and unequivocally condemn King David for that horrible act. Torture (and many other equally cruel acts) should always be condemned, no matter who does it, or under what circumstances.

Happy? Why did you think I wouldn't condemn David? I understand he also did a bunch of other things that would not get him a "blue ribbon" award for meritorious conduct (such as matters of adultery and murder).

Kactuz

PS: I was thinking about this answer, and maybe if one of my children were being held hostage or something, and I had a man in my power and I knew that he was a thug and was certain that he had information that could save the child, well the man would be in big trouble. But this is not the case of any of the discussions here. Just trying to be honest...

We cannot say the Bible is only the story of acceptable acts performed by good people. David was especially noted for his dispicable behaviour on several issues. It was because of this that he was forbidden from establishing the Temple.

The Bible reports the facts and the consequences of those facts so we can learn, supposedly so we do not repeat the mistakes of history. The history of human behaviour is not good, but it did happen and from it we ought to learn.

Quote, "In 2 Sam 12: 29,31 we read "And David gathered all the people together, & went to Rabbah, & fought against it & took it.

And he brought forth the people that were therein, & put them under saws, & under harrows of iron, & under axes of iron & made them pass through the brick-kiln: & thus he did unto all the cities of the children of Ammon."

Phil, your view is correct if you are lucky and live in a region where the community has the right sevices, and a network that works in a democratic way.

As you may know small rural isolated communities can be rather insular, and a lot can happen to some people, who do not have the resources to defend themselves, that is extremely unfair.

I live in Cape York. To see how some of this works you might take a look at my web page on www.miacat.com ie: see - What I have said re: the BUSHBPRINT and in the UN-Brisbane "Engaging Communities" forum.

I do participate in community but am seen to be a trouble maker, a missionary, you name it.... IT IS INSULTING, almost impossible to ignore because it effects livilhood!

I find there is many of the right policies in place throughout Australia, but a lack of implementation at ground level.

People like myself who try to help stand-up for these policies (Local Agenda) are being seriously vilified - and others (within community hide) are too scared to stand up for what is right - because what has happened to people (like me) - may happen to them.... and if they work within the services... they often tell you (off the record) that they agree (this or that person is doing the wrong thing) but the more often refuse to (do the right thing) rock the boat in fear of loosing their own jobs.

Look at how Australia treats "whistleblowers".

This vilification law is not the answer alone - however - if it gives people an opportunity to fight bullies - then I support it.