If giving yourself to christ is so beneficial (I already have problems with this concept), anyway how come in the past 2000 years christians have yet to achieve peace and harmony?

If the answer is that everyone in the entire world has to go christian, then I would have to say "you're dreaming". Why? 'Cos everyone believes that their religion is the right one. Ergot it just ain't gonna happen.

But even if, theoretically, everyone did embrace JC, there would still be wars, murders poverty etc. How do I know this? Because blood shed and mayhem still occur within christian communities just as they do every where else.

I don't need to read the bible to help elderly frail people, I don't need to believe in a man who was apparently tortured to death on a cross (charming) to perform volunteer work.

Interestingly, as I go about my life and I do not hide the fact that I am not religious, I never receive any of the vitriol that I have received on this website. Does this mean that christians keep their contempt for others till they are in a 'safe' situation before slinging with the insults? I would like to acknowledge that I have yet to be attacked for my beliefs on this particular thread. I am referring to others where christians have indulged in name calling.

Here's a challenge - I will continue to post why I don't believe in religion. But can those who have insulted me in the past refrain from insults on this thread. In other words can you accept that other people are kind, just, compassionate, charitable without religion?

I am no less than the trees and the stars.....

Sells,
States are something historically new. In a post-industrial era the modern state has a collective power that could easily crush individuals or minorities, if the state was not answerable and accountable to the whole of the population. It is in my interest to make sure that the state treats everyone within the rule of law and with due process, and that we all have a say in publicly discussing the justice of laws. This is also in your interest, and in the interest of every section of society. The secular ideas of human rights and freedom fits into this kind of context. How people decide to exercise their freedom is a separate issue. Secular freedom is a container - so that people can fill their lives with whatever accords with them.

Christian beliefs are one of many belief systems that a person is free to live by. Faith and conversion may not feel like a rational choice to the individual involved, but secular freedom as a concept means that in a liberal democratic modern state Christians have the same rights as everyone else.

One of the problems with Communism was that it sort of tried to make modernity into a religion. Progress was understood teleologically. The party was supposed to be only good, like a church. Science was deemed to be the only worthwhile belief system, centralised planning was economically rational - and some people in the west still believe that one, etc etc.

The problem with Communism was not that it was a belief system [based as it was on false premises], but that it tried to be the only belief system in a Communist state. States that allow for only a particular religion or ethnic group can be just as oppressive, even if that religious belief were to be Christian. That is not a criticism of Christianity, or any other belief system, it is a recognition of the power of modern states, and the importance of the separation of church and state in this context. How an individual exercises that choice is a matter for them.

This is a bit tangental, but in relation to communism .... I've had the unusual experience of being a very small cog in the wheels of both a fascist and a communist government. What I found out - others would know this from books, but I'm a slow learner and need to experience things first hand - is that living in such a system was exactly like being brought up as a Catholic in the 1950s. I'm not kidding. I never had any problems with totalitarian environments - I had learnt just how to live in them, thanks to the Church.

Question: What do you give a pedophile who has everything? Answer: a bigger parish. I just got this joke from over on the (usually very politically correct) New Matilda website. They got it from a website www.shipoffools.com where there are dozens more. If you found the joke offensive, you probably need to go there and read them!

Xena
very fair questions... and I’ll try to provide responses of considered depth.

Firstly though, Insults ? I don’t recall deliberately name calling or insulting. Though I do recall about 3 references of yours in a row describing me being a ‘little’ man - kind of up there isn’t it eh :)
..and one other issue. (to respond to a previous post of yours) The Biblical view of women is not that they are ‘there’ for the sexual pleasure of men. Please revisit that issue, and think about it.

Your Questions

1/ Why haven’t Christians achieved peace and harmony in the past 2000 yrs ?

Paul outlines this in his letter to the Galatian Christians.

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature[a]; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

May I encourage you to read that whole letter Xena, some will seem a bit elusive but most is very clear. Seeing as the topic is ‘Christianity’, please don’t feel my scripture references are ‘preaching at’ you.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=1&version=31

Pretty much all of what you raised is answered in that one letter.

2./ You don’t need faith in order to help the elderly etc. Very true, I don’t recall saying you did ‘need’ faith in Christ in order to do those things. No argument about that.

3/ No less than the trees and stars ? :) no girl..

23Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]? 26Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest? (Luke 12)

ROWDY.. many issues in your post. Must explore them sometime.

Solomon

I found your paedophile joke abhorrent - so I guess you must be a paedophile and that you condone horrendous sexual acts on children?

A paedophile is a psychopath. Psychopaths do not have a super-ego (sense of guilt or conscience). Paedophiles do not have remorse, or show any remorse, because they believe that their disgusting acts upon children demonstrate love. Paedophiles associate with paedophiles. They are not a "sick" group. They are "bad" to the very core of the soul of human nature.

If you are not a paedophile, then it seems to me that you are condoning paedophilic behaviour.

If I have misread your joke and its intention - I don't know what to say.

I simply cannot get my head around any decent human being who makes child abuse jokes.

Kay

And no matter how you try to justify yourself Soloman - you made a child abuse joke.