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The Forum > Article Comments > How to make a privacy-friendly national ID card > Comments

How to make a privacy-friendly national ID card : Comments

By Kevin Cox, published 2/8/2005

Kevin Cox argues an identity provider system can increase our privacy yet still allow good identification via ID cards.

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Not good enough. You still haven't addressed the question why would anyone need a "unique dynamic electronic identity", or who would pay for it and why. If you still need the same old 100 points to get one, what advantages does it have over my driving licence, and to whom? All I seem to have is a token that identifies me to myself - after all, it is created and controlled by me. In no way has it created an identifier in any abstract sense; if I am able to have multiples of these cards - created, say, at different times and with different referees and different validating documentation (which could be forged) - then the information it holds has no abstract value either. The people I show it to cannot rely upon it any more than they can rely on my credit card.

It still looks very much like a solution that is desperately searching for a problem.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 12:15:30 AM
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Author’s response to the post by Pericles.

Organisations that need to know who you are or who need to reliably know some characteristic about you will pay for the card. Financial Institutions, gambling places, suppliers of adult material, employers, airlines, returning officers etc. They have to establish your identity now and this will be less expensive and more reliable as you create and maintain it.

The 100 points is used because that is the way society has been conditioned to understand identity but your unique electronic identity is a representation of you beyond 100 points and has biometrics (eg. photo, voice prints), referees, links to people you trust, and links to organisations with whom you deal. The more you use it the closer it represents your identity which, in this context, is the sum of your social relationships. If you tried to create a duplicate identity you would need new documentation, a new voice, plastic surgery and have a different social network – and then you would no longer match the first edentiti you created!

The information in your edentiti and hence the information on the card has to be verified physically by an independent third party.
You can have multiple cards but you only have one relationship with a particular organisation. That is you have to use a particular card for a given purpose and you cannot use different cards for the same purpose.

The problem being solved is “how can I as an individual identify myself once and once only so that I can use my identification in a privacy friendly way for all those organisations who need a reliable way of knowing some of my characteristics".
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 9:33:16 PM
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Are we in north korea ? Are we ?
Don't encourage this idea of an ID card .
Once we've all been issued with one it'll only be a
matter of time and we'll be required to produce it on demand
when in a public place .. think about that.
Anyway a plastic card with your name on it in your pocket won't
stop you from doing somthing nasty , will it .
Posted by jamo, Thursday, 4 August 2005 12:05:52 AM
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The author's response to Jamo

Plastic cards are convenient. We use them because they make our life easier. What we have proposed is a system where the card is NOT us but it is used BY us when WE need to identify ourselves.

We have proposed an approach for ID cards that gives some protection against its misuse by governments, corporations and others. If we do not do something along the lines suggested sooner or later - and probably sooner - we WILL get issued with a government ID card with not only our name but a unique number on it and it will have none of the protection that is built into the system we propose.

Of course cards don't stop bad people or bad governments doing bad things. However, we can have cards that make it harder for them to do bad things to us while allowing us to use cards for "good things".
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Thursday, 4 August 2005 6:04:19 AM
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Mr Cox, could you please explain-
“Organisations that need to know who you are or who need to reliably know some characteristic about you will pay for the card. Financial Institutions, gambling places, suppliers of adult material, employers, airlines, returning officers etc. They have to establish your identity now and this will be less expensive and more reliable as you create and maintain it.”
By the way, if my identity is a saleable item, ’I’ shall determine the price. I may be a little expensive for some…
Posted by Swilkie, Thursday, 4 August 2005 6:39:47 PM
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Author's reply to Swilkie – thank goodness someone has seen what this is all about.

It currently costs a bank $20+ to establish your 100 point authenticated account.

Employers pay hundreds of dollars to check out the credentials of employees.

Gambling bodies are meant to establish that you are over 18 years of age as are sellers of pornography. They will pay for a method that keeps the identity of the person hidden while guaranteeing that the person is of legal age because it makes it more attractive to buyers.

The cost of reestablishing a password for an online bank account is $30+.

I am unsure of the cost of a credit check but BayCorp, one of two companies in Australia to provide this information, was recently valued at $450M.

People will pay to get rid of 100 different logons and passwords for one logon/password.

Market research companies will pay to know my age, sex and income plus every thing I purchased and when I purchased it(but not know who I was).

Your identity is valuable and information about you is valuable and you should benefit from it and you should not provide it unless you want the service or money the other party is able to supply you.

The idea of a voluntary identity is that you are in control and if you are not willing to part with your identity information for the services provided then you do not have to do it.

People assume because I talk about an ID Card that I am championing the idea of exploiting identities. That is exactly the opposite to what is proposed. Society has resisted the idea of an ID Card because in their guts people believe it is a way for corporations and governments to exploit us. What we are proposing is a method that gives us the advantages of an ID but where we are NOT exploited and our privacy remains intact.

To see what will happen if we don't do something proactive go to
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Thursday, 4 August 2005 10:00:15 PM
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