To all countries that still have capital punishment, please consider how institutional execution brings you down to the same level as the murderers, serial killers, terrorists. No amount of fuzzy logic will place you in a more righteous or moral position than those you execute in cold blood.

We will never evolve as an intelligent species until we learn how to control and treat the perverse among us.

This thread is about doing more to encourage our neighbours to abandon premeditated killing (capital punishment). It is not whether the death penalty is acceptable. If there are those who wish to debate this issue then write your own article so we can freely debate it on another thread.

The question remains, should Australia be doing more to eliminate the death penalty - no nation can call itself civilised while it sanctions such cold blooded killing. Therefore, the answer to Tim Goodwin's question is yes. However we do need to look at our level of humanity as well before we can preach to others.

DS. In your own words "Based upon many reviews, as I previously stated likely around 25 cases of cedible (sic) actual innocence released from death row, for cases prosecuted in the modern era, post Furman, 1972" The lack of evidence for earlier cases would have nothing to do with lack of, oh, shall we say, just for fun, DNA samples from them? Doubtless you will have a glib, but evasive, reply. What happened to you, DS? You say in your links you used to oppose killing by the state. Is your road to damascus entirely a rational calculation?

reply to anomie:

anomie states: DS. In your own words "Based upon many reviews, as I previously stated likely around 25 cases of cedible (sic) actual innocence released from death row, for cases prosecuted in the modern era, post Furman, 1972" The lack of evidence for earlier cases would have nothing to do with lack of, oh, shall we say, just for fun, DNA samples from them? Doubtless you will have a glib, but evasive, reply.

DS reply: My replies throughout this thread have been accurate and as thorough as this forum allows. I have not been evasive. Some folks on this board have a desire to be hostile, I suspect because they don't like my thorough answers. This is common for anti death penalty folks. I believe there is no good proof for an innocent executed in the US, at least since 1900, because such cases are incredibly rare.

The proof however is overhwleming and not questioned that murderers harm and murder innocents, again. Therefore, the anti death penalty position knowingly sacrifices more innocent lives.

Anomie, is that a good outcome?

anomie asks: What happened to you, DS? You say in your links you used to oppose killing by the state. Is your road to damascus entirely a rational calculation?

DS: It is a sad commentary on anomie, that she muct lower herself to this level. Simply because I approve of a just outcome, as I see it, for horrible murderers, is not reason for anomie, or anyone else, to wrongly presume. Anomies childishness and immaturity demand it, I suspect, even within a serious discussion of a weighty public policy discussion.

I am sorry you have chosen to be this way. It is not necessary.

"Therefore, the anti death penalty position knowingly sacrifices more innocent lives."

Criminals of particularly heinous crimes should be locked away for life, therefore your above quote is meaningless. I am offended that you should actually attempt to claim the moral high ground on this issue. Tell me, would you offer your services to 'pull the trigger, flip the switch, swing the axe, tie the noose, inject the poison'?

As has been noted in this thread Australia does not have the death penalty. Nor does Australia have the same rate of heinous crimes as the USA.

DS if you wish to debate institutionalised murder please use a forum that is discussing that topic. This thread is about whether Australia should be encouraging its neighbours to abandon premeditated, state sanctioned murder, as trinity has pointed out to you.

Unless you can provide some methods that will assist Australia in eliminating the moral crime of state sanctioned murder, then I suggest you leave this forum to those who wish to discuss the topic.

"Executing McVeigh will not bring back the people he killed, but it will bring back the machinery of death. The federal government hasn't killed anyone in 40 years, and now they're trying to use McVeigh to bring the death penalty back. But don't make any mistake about it after McVeigh, the next person they kill won¹t look like him, he will look like me. He might be innocent like me, too."

--Darby Tillis, an exonerated former Illinois death row inmate

Another reason why our 'neighbour' the USA should drop the death penalty and butt out of our criminal system.

Ambo writes: DS if you wish to debate institutionalised murder please use a forum that is discussing that topic. This thread is about whether Australia should be encouraging its neighbours to abandon premeditated, state sanctioned murder, as trinity has pointed out to you.

You have made two errors, ambo. Judicially imposed execution is not murder, unless you are the type who equates crime and punishment, kidnapping and incarceration and robbery with fines.

I am well aware of what this thread is about. There are many reasons why Australia should not encourage their neighbors to abandon the death penalty and why Australia should have the death penalty. Obviously that is part of the discussion and part of this thread, as it rightly should be.

I have as much right to impose my opinion on this forum and upon Australia, just as many of you have chosen to crticize the US.