peace. salam/shalom. namasthe. sat sri akaal.

i wrote trhis article about an english shaykh. and i did it because i wanted to make a simple point.

the same point could be made by christians and jews and buddhists and hindus and followers of other faiths and no faith at all.

religion and culture are two separate things. religion is unrelated to culture and nationaility.

religion is about what we believe. it is not about what language we speak or what colour our skin is. nor is it about whether we like or hate george dubya.

i spoke of shaykh martin lings. when i was at st andrews, the head student's father was the reverend mall. an anglican priest. of pakistani origin who spoke fluent urdu and was a family friend of ours. the rev mall's son was for years the secretary of the pakistan association.

think about it. heads out of the sand, people.

Viking a Christian? What a concept!

Dan, having a Quran will not tell you all that much about Muslims. It's a confusing document, really. Nowhere in it is there a prohibition on alcohol or the keeping of dogs as pets, or how Muslims should prey, for instance. All this and much, much more are found in the Hadiths. Try doing a search of them on "right hand possessions". Try another one on "dhimmi". Think about why it is that so many Muslim countries are almost 100% Muslim, and why is it that Bethlehem, which was 90% Christian in 1948, is now 90% Muslim?

The issue really comes down to is Islam really the "religion of peace"? It is obviously not now, nor was it ever, any such thing.

Garra,
I have a sneaking suspicion, that your awareness of Islam in its various manifestations of political/cultural/spiritual is limited to your reading of the newspapers?

I don't quite understand why you even came to this thread.

You will never see the true color of Islam until it is ruling you.

You probably have never had a Muslim Chief minister tell you in no uncertain terms, that unless you basically shut down the fastest growing Christian movement in his country, you will be dealt with in the severest manner ? That particular state had no more than 30% muslims, and the rest were either Christian or Pagan, mostly pagan.
Or had the secret police tell you to shut down newletters which said nothing about Islam but did proclaim Christ.

Islam is a 'total' all encompassing phenomenon, (culture/law/politics etc) it is also very crafty and "flexible". I doubt that you followed the Catch the Fire case, but you would benefit from a careful study of detail right down to the Judges misrepresentation of the TRANSCRIPT in his verdict. If Islam is characterized as 'brutal' using the Hadith as basis for the charge, they (like Ash did) will say "Oh, the Quran is the foundation", but on other issues, they will appeal to the Hadith.

Garra, read Surah 23:5-6 Then, do some research on what 'who your right hand posseses'

Garra, goto Aceh Indonesia, and say something about Mohammed which is insulting. Then, if you survive, goto St Pauls Cathedral in Melbourne and do likewise, no, do it the other way around, at least you will be alive after St Pauls. That, Garra, is where you will see the true difference between how Islam effects its adherants and how Christ does His.

Don't confuse 'speaking with passion'- with hate, this is not the case.
Sometimes the verbal destruction of cherished myths can be painful, but it is neccessary if we are to preserve our freedoms, including the freedom for you to describe me as 'shrill, insensitive and rude' :)

MULTICULTURAL DIVERSITY SHOULD ALLOW DIFFERENCE

Posting on the National Forum will receive contrary comment, it is perfectly normal: that is the nature of a democratic Forum. If the above article was posted as a eulogy, merely to capture praise of the deceased then the National Forum is not the appropriate place; a magazine read by persons supporting his position would be a better option.

The name-dropping in the article appears as an appeal for acceptance of the Muslim intellectual position, so it’s perfectly appropriate to challenge intellectual opinion. The democratic voices on the National Forum may not be acceptable to Muslim minds unless it is degrading infidels, Jews, or Christians.

Opposition to Islam in Western Democracies is the reason Muslims from the Australian Multicultural Foundation instigated and drafted Victoria's Religious Vilification Totalitarian Shari'ah Law, as it encourages them to set spies to seek damage against things said, and claims they felt offended.

Those that follow Christ’s example will grow under opposition (Matthew 5: 11). The religious zealots of the Mosaic (Shari'ah) took offence at what Jesus had said this ultimately incited them to murder him. Compare: When the prophet Mohamed rose in military power he had all his opponents beheaded for contradicting his word - now typical of the totalitarian Muslim world-view to incarcerate or behead religious opponents.

There are those that wish to rewrite history to place Mahomet in better appeal to Western minds - then there are the facts. There are enough of the facts enshrined in the Qur'an as revelation to understand Mahomet's early appreciation of Christ, Mary and the Jews under the Abrahamic covenant and the second Jewish Talmud (Babylonia 600 AD); contrasted with his later violent opposition toward any of the sources that had earlier influenced him. Religious intolerance in his later life identified him as a violent fanatic and warlord, even his own relatives feared for their lives. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is this quandary between the earlier tolerances of other world-views, with his later totalitarian intolerance of other views that marks the difference within Muslim communities.

The pagan Roman Church was responsible for the deaths of many independent thinkers and heretics so cannot be considered as following the attitudes of Christ. They call themselves "Christian" but adminstered the State under Totalitarian Religious Law, not under the grace of Christ.

The beginning of Christian persecution rests upon verifiable facts.
A young zealous Jew, an orthodox Pharisee, named Saul (known by his Gentile name Paul) had authority to capture and bring before trial those who followed Jesus teachings. Stephen was one of those who defended Jesus that Saul (Paul his gentile name) oversaw the stoning to death authorised by the Jewish Sanhedrin [Acts 6:7 - 7: 60]. Christians who spoke about Christ were being accused of undermining the Temple, Mosaic ceremonial Law and blasphemy and were being stoned to death. [The Midrash developed in the last centuries BC, and Mishnah - Jewish Law written in Aramaic 600 AD was the influence foundation for Shari'ah Law.]

*****

Acts. 6:8 Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people. 6:9: Opposition arose, however, from members of the “Synagogue of the Freedmen” (as it was called) - Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. These men began to argue with Stephen, 6:10: but they could not stand up against his wisdom or the Spirit by whom he spoke. 6:11: Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, "We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God." 6:12: So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. 6:13: They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. 6:14: For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us." 6:15: All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen, and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel

Hi JustDan,

Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.

Boaz_David,

Koran is the only source that muslims believe is inspired by God.
My point was not to debate however but to ask why do some of you hate us so much?
I see you guys inventing a new slogan everyday to get closer to other religions and non religions for that matter.

Philo

There is no contradiction in the Koran for those who understand it. Jesus ‘story in the Koran that God saved him and is sending him back at the end of times.
But as I said in a previous writing, Jesus’ crucifix is not a religious issue for Muslims. Islam is about confirming the previous messages of monotheism: One God, follow the commandments, etc.
The Koran has enough teachings on:
-Tolerance towards other religious beliefs (One of the references 3:112-116).
- Finding common grounds with Judaism and Christianity to worship one God.

As for your ‘facts’ on Islam and prophet Mohamed, please read work done by historians like George Sale “Translation of the Koran” or Sir William Muir “Life of Mohammed”.

I find it interesting you coming to a tribute article and spreading what you call ‘facts’ about Islam, yet you are comfortable with the sources of your beliefs being established by mortal men in the year 325 to 386 AD.

Ash