Ed Schneidman, psychologist, world expert on suicide.
‘Every person - 100% - who commits suicide is profoundly mentally disturbed at the time. It is not a thing to do when you are not yourself. You should never kill yourself when you are suicidal’

Who owns the life of a person?
Should politicians be able to pass laws that decide how and when a person may be allowed to die?
What about each person having the right to decide for themselves how and when they die?

‘Every person - 100% - who commits suicide is profoundly mentally disturbed at the time. It is not a thing to do when you are not yourself. You should never kill yourself when you are suicidal’

Since people who have committed suicide are dead, they are not available for examination of their mental state.

The quote sounds more like a circular argument, which starts with the premise that people do not kill themselves unless mentally disturbed, and then goes on to reach that as a conclusion.

Killing oneself is a rational thing to do in some situations. Terminal illness with intractable pain is one example.

Sadly, another example is where one has to do it now because if one delays one will be deprived of the opportunity. This occurs with some degenerative disorders, because of our anti-euthanasia laws. People commit suicide because they're unwilling to take the risk of suffering a drawn out, and possibly painful, existence later on when they're no longer physically capable of killing themselves.

I once hesitated about getting medical help for fear that I'd find myself locked away in an accute ward where I would continue to suffer, but no longer have control over my destiny. Had I been aware of how limited the funding is for such wards, I would have realised there was no risk of that. Still, it highlights the dangers with a system that is concerned primarily with preventing suicide, and only to a lesser extent with reducing suffering.

Sylvia.

I think there are two different matters here.

Firstly, is there any such thing as rational suicide?

Secondly, even if rational suicide exists, is it good public policy to allow it? What would the effects be on the wider population, not just on the very very small number of non-depressed and terminally ill patients with intractable pain?

It would be useful to separate these issues for discussion.

According to Sylvia every person who contemplates suicide is not of sound mind at the time?A very simplified generalisation.What about the millions of people on this planet who suffer cancer and other diseases, who realise that the suffering is no longer worth it.These are not the thoughts of mentally deranged people.

In traditional Eskimo culture when the old can no longer support themselves,they simply hop in a canoe and paddle off into oblivian.They would rather sacrifice themselves than be a risk to the survival of their children.This is the harsh reality that we have no concept of.

Arjay,

You have misattributed to me a sentiment that I quoted from someone else's posting, which was in turn a view quoted from some alleged expert. It does not represent a view that I hold.

On the question of rational suicide raised by Ruby, there are at least two major scenarios:

Terminal illness associated with significant intractable pain.

Non terminal illness associated with significant intractable pain.

I cannot see why suicide in the latter case should be considered irrational. The decision to be made by the person is whether they are willing to endure the pain for the sake of continuing to live. It seems to me that this is a value judgement for them alone to make.

My position on that is not altered if the pain is only intermittent.

If we can get past that issue, then next question is whether only physical pain is to be considered a valid basis for suicide. People who've suffered it know how unpleasant depression is. It's a form of mental, or psychological, pain. If one accepts that people who suffer intermittent intractable physical pain should have the right to decide whether or not to continue to live, I can see no reason why someone who suffers intermitted intractable depression should not have the same right.

Sylvia.