Timkins, I have not heard of a movement away from the term feminist by those who support the core objectives but then I have not spent much time following that kind of aspect. Until such an approach becomes widespread it still remains counterproductive to launch broadside attacks on feminists just as broadside attacks on fathers do not convince us of the error of our ways (consider the respect that you hold for the views of Pru Goward). The site you refered me too did not appear to be one which is likley to strike a chord with non christians and the 50's look to the family picture/drawing did not help.

I really think that you will have a better response if you back off the broadranging attacks and get into friendly discussion. There are feminists on this site who will listen if treated with respect and respond in kind. Some people will still get into personal attacks rather than debate the issue but I suspect that they are a minority.

How do men and women work together to produce a better environment for our kids to grow up in which also values the lives of the parents and their dreams, goals and responsibilities?

R0bert, I'm quite happy to accept your comparison of radical feminist with the worst of male bigots but I don't know a single guy who wants women to be subservient rather than equal partners in life - this seems like a myth.

I am all for gender reconciliation, yet you underestimate the profound and pervasive inroads that radical feminist ideology and its practitioners have made into the social/legal institutions and policy that determine the safety of Fatherhood and security of the family. The current situation is desperately alarming, and is continually driven by aggressive gender-separatist advocates.

Many, many people have protested the hijacking of the women's movement by separatists and the damage done to our culture, and our children.

Even Erin Pizzey, the founder of domestic violence shelters in the UK 25 years ago and first to write a book about domestic violence, had to flee her country because of feminist terrorist attacks against her (her wording). Eventually her good DV work was hijacked by the separatists. She was brave enough to report publicly, from her considerable experience, that " women can be as violent as men".

The recent onslaught of DV promotion (witch hunt), reminds us that we are not facing well meaning but mistaken individuals who have simply overlooked the wealth of data that defies current gender biased slant on DV policy. We face a propaganda machine that has pulled out all stops to rush Australia headlong into a separatist blockade on social reform and family restoration.

Hello Sylvia,I'm waiting for some intelligent rebutal of my last post.Prove me wrong.Lay bare my most presumptuous foibles."Do you dare ,do you dare,disturb my puny verse?" Gee I love T.S Elliot.

Arjay,

You indulged in an ad hominem argument. I felt no need to respond to it then, and nor do I know.

Sylvia.

Surely Sylvia,you've studied the"Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock"
T.S Elliot found aspiration in the lowest and most dire of our human condition.These were times of the "Great Depresion" ,yet our whimpering ,simpering modern generation need to consult some specialist to cope with their own self indulgent,hedonestic affluence.

Why are we so dysfunctional in such relative abundance,when people of the Great Depression coped so well in such dire need?

Couldn't respond sooner - rules of forum.

Timkins read my post, I stated; “I infer from your posts” that you do not appear to be very happy as a father. As garra said you manage to stereotype yourself. If being a parent gives you joy and satisfaction as it does me, then I am yet to see you say so. BTW you are equally guilty of name calling – if you want to continue to hand it out, then you have to take it as well.

You talk about the big picture. All I find in your posts are internet links to bolster your view of feminism and stats you manipulate to further your beliefs –not the big picture just the view of an embittered man.

If more familles have a female head this still doesn’t make for a matriarchal society – men are still very much in the ascendancy politically and in big business world wide.

My ex and my current partner would both describe themselves as feminists in that they believe in equal opportunity. They also believe in relationships with men – not against men. They don’t want world domination, as you seem to infer, ad nauseum. For your information feminists are not one single homogenised group; there are as many differing views among feminists as there are people. You may not have noticed, Timkins but not all men agree w/each other, many male posters to this forum, including myself do not agree w/your narrow view of feminism.

The feminist quotes from s/surfer are extremist, out of context and out of date. As Robert says, he wouldn’t like to be represented by some of the extreme misogynists’ quotes.

As for society as I previously stated (read my post) we ARE society it behoves us to care for ourselves. That starts with the individual and connects through to business and politics – we, as human beings construct it all. It is up to us to reconstruct a workable society where our children are cared for and given the chance to grow up unencumbered by bitterness and prejudice.