Dear Silversurfer, my moniker is Ringtail, the fact you deliberately misspelled my moniker indicates a level of hostility on your part. Why?

I politely asked the male posters to this forum to answer how they felt about being a father and if not a father then why not?

I agree that there are a lot of unhappy men out there. It is a very frightening world in which we live. I and many others (male and female) are very concerned by the actions of our leaders both politcally and in business. We are faced with the environmental consequences of our greedy use of resources. Our media foists unachievable ideals on both men and women. We have inadequate programs to both educate and care for our children. There are a lot of things to be scared of – however, to continually place the blame on feminists is very narrow minded. It indicates fear of women who ‘dare’ to speak out. The simple fact is women do not hold anywhere near the balance of power to impact the changes in society that you claim are destroying the fabric of our society. There are many other factors involved than just these ‘separatists’ Men are under going painful reflection on their role in this time of chaos.

The very idea that women want to destroy relationships with men is laughable. And divisive.

These are difficult times and I doubt if I was a young woman that I would be too keen on having children now.

I acknowledge that many men are getting short shrift in custody cases. However, only recently have men been taking more of an interest in the upbringing of their children. The courts need to catch up with the change in attitudes by many men.

Silversurfer can’t you see we need to work together? Not all men see women as the enemy. However the dogmatic nature of your posts makes think that you do see us as such.

Sylvia,
Unless you are physically allergic in some way to eating a particular fruit, you could be convinced to eat it through persuasion, indoctrination, propaganda etc.

In recent decades there has been a considerable amount of propaganda from certain sections of society, that has been anti-marriage and anti-male. This section of society has advocated de facto relationships and the removal of the father as soon as the woman was satisfied that sufficient children had been born. However the male was still required to financially support those children, and was allowed the most minimal contact so that he would maintain enough interest in those children to keep providing the finances.

This system has definitely been in place for 3 decades, although the system is inhuman, in that it does not take into consideration human needs. It is not surprising that the majority of young children or young adults still desire to get married and have children, as this is an intrinsic human need or desire, that cannot be easily overcome through propaganda or indoctrination.

Many women are now rejecting the propaganda and indoctrination, and are finding greater satisfaction in marriage and in family. An interesting article regards all this is at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=466&ObjectID=10125395

This is of a woman who attended certain meetings when she was younger, along with other prominent women including Helen Clark, the current Prime Minister of NZ. However this woman is now fearful for the future of her children and grandchildren.

So the anti-marriage and anti-male propaganda is gradually failing, but there is legislation that still has to be changed.

Ringtail,
I find being a father very rewarding, and not particularly difficult. I find that most difficulties come from outside pressures and barriers, to the extent where I now believe that these pressures and barriers are being purposely applied to stop me from being a father to my child (and this belief comes after considerable thought and research).

You could also read the article mentioned previously, to begin to understand the full extent of the feminist agenda

Ringtail

straw pole

1. Of those of you who are fathers do you regret it?

No I don't regret being a father. I love it. My concerns in this area have to do with the difficulty I face in fulfilling that role as well as I think it needs to be done and in the disruption my ex is able to cause to my attempts to move on with my life. Fatherhood is not something I want to do on an occasional basis. I would also like more control over how the costs of raising my son are allocated. I have no say in how so called child support is spent and as a consequence of the child support have less to spend on the things I believe are important to my son's development. Thankfully the most important bits are free.

Seeking changes to an damaging and unjust system is not the same as regretting being a father.

2. If you aren't a father why not?
N/A

Ringtail, I only noticed the typo on your name when you alerted me to it - seems like a little of your own paranoia setting in (re your post May 25). There was no such deliberate action - I avoid personal attacks in these forums - but I don't shy away from challenges. So if I think someone is being evasive it is appropriate to say it.

I did not respond to your poll request because 1) lack of space, and 2) because non of the facts and issues presented by the men in this forum were addressed by you - hence my reference to deflection.

The facts and issues presented were mostly on par with the subject … "Is being a father worth the risk?". My last two post address financial issues; " Cost to the Taxpayer " and the CSA use of rare male suicide prevention funds - all substantial objections to spending more on organisations that feed at the trough of marriage breakdown, ie. the Divorce Industry.

Most of the posts that support these themes have acknowledged willingness to support marriage survival. That is, to address the causes rather than doing a patch job. These are all reasonable arguments that deserve intelligent replies.

My last 3 posts did not mention feminism. And in prior post, when I did, I have expressed support for equity feminist ideologies.

A review of your posts does reveal, in fact, your own critical personal assumptions about contributers. This tactic suppresses the voice of those who ‘dare’ to speak out about the real Fatherhood issues that are right on topic!

Your correct that the very idea women want to destroy relationships with men is laughable. We should all be laughing at sick separatist ideology. Yet it's basic misandrist premises have been injected into much social and legal policy - social engineering run amuck. This is why I reveal alarming factual outcomes, and suggested that policy committ to equality.

To answer your poll - I don't regret fatherhood, I revel in it! I am a very devoted father - Fatherhood is worth the risk.

sylvia , we don't have to adjust our childrens' genes to make marriages last , we need to look for the positives , tell our kids about them often and get a fair bit of the anti marriage garbage off tv for starters .

if women accept men's well known imperfections ??,your "characteristics " that may become apparent a few years after marriage , and men accept the different female attitudes that may arise from motherhood responsibilities, with a bit of work and communication ,marriage can last and be mostly enjoyable , without being "unbearable ".

if you prefer an apple to a mango surely you would still turn it around a bit before you bought it and then again before you ate it .

Ringtail, I given some more thought to my answer in your straw pole.

I love being a dad but I would not choose to bring a child into the world if I knew for sure that the outcome was to be what I am currently experiencing it. Probably like a lot of risk taking activities, we make a choice between the percieved benefits and the perceived risks. I used to fly a hang glider, when I was not a dad and got to fly regularly enough to keep my skills up then I judged the joy of flight to outweight the risk of serious harm.

I started part time Uni so flew less then got married and later had a child and the equation changed. I'd still love to fly but the risk/benefit equation still does not look good.

Being a dad not seeing your child enough (and having your relationship with the child harmed by the ex's tactics) along with the pressure of a silly C$A formula, the ongoing uncertainty of further changes next time mum changes her mind about something etc is not something I would choose (and 20/80 are not good odds).

The risk benefit equation at the moment for men makes a lot of other things seem like better options.

Fatherhood with better odds at a fair go at it. Great.