Anna, I was not implying that Gays make bad parents, or that patriarchy is a better way. Quite the opposite, that form of parenting is not acceptable in this time, I believe we have evolved further than that. If there is ever a thread regarding the upbringing of children, then I am happy to discuss it with you, I don't blame people, but how we are educated. My first post was to see who would react and in what way.

I was trying to show how unbalanced things are and that by trying to just put the problem as being homophobic, you are giving those that threaten our way of life, ammunition that they can and will use to divide us as a society. If that happens, then it won't matter what you represent, just like us all, you will get the same treatment. No rights and the chop if you don't toe the religious line.

What the gay and lesbian communities fail to realise, is that they are a part of this country and their fellow sane country men will support them around the world, but get of our backs and help us work out how to stop this rapid escalation of religious war coming here.

I am not as mature as bushbred, but he is right and people should listen to those of us that have experienced what insurgent conflict can do to a society. We have a unique country, lets not let it go down the drain because of religious insanity. It is not one religion that is at fault in this case, it is all of them.

We are all lucky in this country to be able to be what we want to be, responsibly. Minorities are a part of our society that makes us unique, it is only the wacko's that want control and they come from all aspects of society, even within the gay and lesbian communities.

So lets do what we can to keep it that way, the same old victim accussations, are not helping.

The sheik is a lying hypocrite. Paradise(?) for moslem males, especially those who suicide, that is blow themselves apart with bombs and murder innocents, don't know what the downtrodden females get in paradise. But paradise for them contains 40, or so, perpetual dark eyed virgins as well as 32 "pearls". What may you ask are "pearls" - they are perpetually untouched boys. Even today islamics if they have sex with men they can be killed as homo-sexuals. Yet if they have sex with hairless, pubic wise, boys that is fine. Don't believe me then check it out on the net. numbat

Muslims have poligomy for males thus the poor cannot afford a wife.In such Muslim countries homosexuality is rampant.It is a system of hyprocracy, denial and confusion which reflects the wider problems which beseige their religion.

No one can seem to agree upon a common theme of beliefs or rules.Ask a question about what they believe and all you will get is double speak and denial.Such a confused,introverted and beseiged mentality will only bring anarchy.

We had better have the courage to face these problems now,or see them fester into social conflict beyond our wildest imagination.
It is a Muslim problem,and all sides of this present debate have to face that reality.

Once we buckle to the smallest of their demands under the threat of their potentially violent nature,we have lost the battle.

I note in Collin Mullane's post he says, "There is very little to differentiate Yasin from Fred Nile". I can say, knowing Fred Nile very well he condemns the act not the person, and would never sanction the State introducing the death penalty for persons involved in the act. His model is John 8 on the woman caught in adultery, "neither do I condemn you [to death]". He certainly does not sanction the act of adultery, but he respects the person. "Go and sin no more"! Fred has personally and financially assisted several gays who were dieng of AIDS. He holds no hostility toward the person only the action of involvement in anal sex. Shari'ah law upholds stoning women caught in adultery and the death of those who engage in anal sex. There is a marked difference with Yasin's stand compared to Fred Nile.

Islamic culture is at war with Australian society - in particular Lebanese have nothing but hatred for Australians and Australian Society.

It is not a question of international terrorism, but a question of the terror faced by Australians on the streets of our society, terror from Lebanese who hate Australians because we are Australian and 'Infidels.

In western Sydney gang rape has been used by Lebanese against young Australian girls, and this happens more than the public is aware. It has been happening for the last ten years and longer and it is only the headlines of '55 years' for Bilal Skaff, the leader of a brutal Lebanese gang rape on a young Australian girl, which brought it to light... She was raped by up to 30 Lebanese men, passed from car to car as the rapist contacted their 'cousins and friends' with SMS mobile phone messages. She was told she deserved it because she was an "Aussie slut" and that the men would rape her "Leb style" - and it is the Sheiks of Islam who have intended this, preaching that it is woman's fault as they wear 'strapless, backless' clothes. It is a culture of hate for our society and people - we are Infidels to even the moderate Muslims.

Australia needs to make sure that not one Australian girl has the chance of being gang raped by Lebanese in Australian society because she is Australian.

Australia hands such people Australian citizenship and these people are protected by Australian law... what right should such people have of our laws when they have no love for this country. It is time that citizenship meant love for this country and it is time that Australia takes back our society.

Our ancestors built this country and it is being handed to Lebanese who hate us and our society.

It is a 'clash of civilizations' of 'us versus them'!

Collin... 'religion is a disease'...= vilification.

The criticism of Islam for its anti gay stance, is a validation of our repeated criticism and scrutiny of the religion in many threads.

We (Godbotherers) are called 'intolerant, racist, divisive, moron, insane' to name a few colorful epithets raised on the flagpole at the marshalling area of 'tolerant, peaceful social progressives.'

And here we have a sample of those who are usually the ones shouting out the said epithets, being INTOLERANT of harmless Islam :)
The problem is, the death penalty for gays in Islam is just one of MANY reasons we oppose it at it's most fundamental level, which is the doctrinal, and the founder.

"Its not our law, its theQuran"..... are we seeing it yet ? Trinity.. Xena.. Garra... Giaman...Alchemist ?

I cannot figure out why Yasin is called an 'extremist' he is just being a Quranic Muslim.

The difference between evangelical Christianity and Islam is that we look to Christ as the fulfillment of the law. Islam is still living in the Mosaic age.

We see in Christs words and life, the interpretation/fulfillment of the Old Testament. While the New Testament clearly condemns homosexual behavior and acts, nowhere does it call on us to punish it IN THIS LIFE. (apart from ejection from fellowship)

Punishment for sin, is God’s perogative, at Judgement Day, punishment for normal civil/criminal offenses is for us, today. The obvious red herring is 'Will evangelical Christians seek to make Homosexual behavior illegal”? Most likely some will, others will just seek to restrain the attempts to 'legitimize' this form of behavior in the educational and legislative spheres.

We do this because of the following:

1/ Leviticus 18 lumps homosexual behavior IN WITH bestiality and incest as all being totally unacceptable to God.

2/ We know that it won't be long (and now is) before Nambla and other devients will use the 'moral relativism' of post modern society to engage in moral bracket creep for the passive acceptance of any form of behavior the fertile imagination cares to conjur up