"We are seeing boys gradually dropping out of song, music and dance, and probably girls will follow eventually"

Oh lighten up Timkins - singing and dancing is as much a part of human nature as speech. And I don't see any reduction in boys and girls starting bands, writing music, performing etc. While there is a reduction in boys (and girls) participating in choirs, may be there will be a resurgence, may be not.

Part 2 (from where I was so rudely interrupted due to post limit).

Don't you see how divisive much of the stereotyping of men and women is. I am a big bloke, however my female partner at work is just as effective at moving heavy equipment and bodies as I am - she just uses a different approach. She is also very authoritive when the situation gets difficult and I have seen her subdue a group of drunk men - impressive stuff. Just goes to show what can be achieved when someone is encouraged rather than stereotyped.

The irony here, Timkins, is that I suspect we want the same thing - a reduction in stereotyping of males and females. I don't believe that boys are more discriminated against than girls. (I have a child of each sex). When my son told my daughter that she ran like a girl (she is, in fact a great sprinter) she was hurt just as my son was hurt when he was jeered at by a couple of boys for throwing 'like a girl'.

Please stop being so touchy and concentrate on the issue. We may actually mange to communicate with each other. Now wouldn't that be something?

Ahh, India the land of song and love. How I yearn for my native India.

Ambo,
Recently I watched the annual musical production at the local high school. There were pupils from all grades in the show, and out of a cast of about 30 there were 2 boys (from a school of about 1600). Normally they get no boys, and it was such a novelty to have any boys at all that one of the boys had his picture in the local newspaper advertising the musical. This was because the public interest in the musical had dropped off so much because the public were not greatly interested in seeing girls act and sing male parts year after year.

The girls were also loosing interest because they had to play the part of males and try and sing like males, and overall it was a big problem for the music teacher.

At the same school many years ago, I was in a number of productions with many boys auditioning and no problems in filling male parts. Why the lack of interest now by boys remains something of a mystery, but personally I put it down to such things as a current belief that singing is not masculine, a lack of male role models within the education system, all the anti-male messages being thrown at men and boys by the feminist brigade, a concern that they will be gossiped about by the girls in the production, and the affects of such things as commercialised TV and modern media (and if you don’t believe it is not having a major influence on our culture then visit places where there is no TV or modern media).

The rest of your posts I have only skimmed over, because you know almost nothing about myself, but have made so many generalised insinuations and inferences regards myself, (and in a highly gossipy and girlie way). So you can keep your generalised insinuations and inferences for yourself.

Timkins

As I stated previously I'm in a band. Our outfit has five members 3 of whom are male. We play regularly at a local inner city pub. I mix with a lot of people in the music industry and the majority of bands are all male with maybe about 30% female.

You base what you say on your local high school, sounds very sad.

The issue is about encouraging boys to sing in CHOIRS (there's a plethora of males in the entertainment industry) - and there's nothing wrong with that.

I would just like to see both sexes encouraged to be everything they can be and not divided so much that we have a situation where men like you think calling someone a girl is an insult. You are just as much a part of the problem as the advertising media.

Now I am going to join other posters to this forum and NEVER respond again to your posts. So many people have tried to reach out to you and all you do is get all defensive. Bye bye.

hey folks,

i think this is a really interesting topic.

i work in the music industry, and the industry is dominated by men - both in the creative sides of things, as well as the behind-the-scenes things like management, sound engineering and production. i do not know many women working as musos at all - the whole thing is a boys club.

while singing should be nurtured, i do not think that it is boys who lose singing - i think it is everyone. in our society, creativity is often discouraged - i was long called a freak when i was younger because i did drama - yes, that is certainly something that would want to make me continue (sarcasm intended). it does become hard to stand out against the crowd and put yourself - with all your vulnerabilities - on the line in public for people to judge you - especially if there is a fear you might be found wanting.

i think that while this article does raise a few interesting issues, it is not necessarily accurate in reflecting the way these boys who are scared to sing grow up. it is just that artistic expression - and difference - are not encouraged anywhere in our society. the stigma attached to the arts is a heavy burden, when instead, it should be worshipped. it is a hard thing to commit to doing something for passion, instead of reward. to know that our society relies on artists to help us interpret the world - but that the only rewards usually come from the soul - and that can be a hard thing to justify.

have a lovely day.

suse

Yes, it is an interesting topic - however I think that we need to distinguish between singing per se and singing in choirs. As others have pointed out, there is absolutely no shortage of venues and genres where men and boys are encouraged to sing - just listen to contemporary street rappers, rock bands, country music, folk music, opera, the "Idol" and "X-factor" competitions, karaeoke (sp?) etc.

My own son is right into music, singing and production (under almost exactly the opposite context described by "Timkins", despite it also occurring under the auspices of a State high school). I think, however, that *choir* singing has very much gone out of fashion for young men and boys. I suspect that, whatever the causes for this may be, gender is only a small part of the explanation. I would look more at the strong religious association with choirs, and the related recent publicity surrounding sexual abuse of choirboys etc.

On the other hand, I recall seeing a quite wonderful doco on the ABC or SBS quite recently that described the resurgence of men's choirs in towns in regional Victoria (?) in recent times, as a kind of male bonding and affirmation exercise. Sort of like a true version of 'The Full Monty' or 'Billy Elliot', but focused on singing in a choir of men.

Personally, I rarely sing when sober - but that is more to do with my consideration of the aural sensibilities of others :)