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The Forum > Article Comments > Stop taxing happiness: A new perspective on progressive taxation > Comments

Stop taxing happiness: A new perspective on progressive taxation : Comments

By Mirko Bagaric and James McConvill, published 21/4/2005

Mirko Bagaric and James McConvill argue the time has come for a wholesale reform of tax law, for the sake of the greater good

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I know what makes "me" happy. I really wish that social policy makers would stop telling "me" that I am wrong about "me". However if they insist that they know better than me what makes "me" happy perhaps they could explain why their chosen policies make "me" cranky and irritable. Maybe they don't know "me" as well as they think
Posted by Terje, Monday, 25 April 2005 9:24:17 PM
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Terje do you object to happiness research because you are an unhappy person? Are you really unhappy because you pay too much tax or is that just something on which you can focus and identify as obviously a bad thing?

It is so much choice that makes me unhappy. I am sick of it. Everywhere I look new useless products that I have to walk past on my way to buy the few products that I buy from supermarkets.

Julie Novak I am sure you would have heard of the Australian research about the amount of money spent on uneaten food and unused goods. If not check out “Wasteful Consumption in Australia” by Clive Hamilton, Richard Denniss and David Baker. It is available at

http://www.tai.org.au/

For more information on the happiness research see
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSEPublicLecturesAndEvents/events/2003/20030106t1439z001.htm
Posted by Mollydukes, Monday, 25 April 2005 9:48:49 PM
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I am not an unhappy person in general. Its just that certain public policies make me unhappy. Just as choise makes you unhappy.

The only choices that I get miserable about are the ones that other people impose on me through force. The rest of the time I view the prolific number of choices as a sign that I am not yet dead
Posted by Terje, Monday, 25 April 2005 9:58:36 PM
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Some bits that appear to have been missed in this discussion so far.

- Is the pursuit of happiness really a great value to base society on? Maybe I read the word differently to others. Sometimes the excessive focus on happiness seems to seem a bit like "eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die". Does happiness encoumpasses the other values which could be seen as important? I often get the impression that the pursuit of happiness does not bring happiness but rather the pursuit of other values, and that happiness is a fortunate side effect of more important issues.

- Some of the posters may have missed the bit where the author acknowledges that middle income earners pay a disproportionate amount of tax (PAYE with no legal way of skipping the excess).

- There does not appear to be any recognition of the value of supporting yourself in overall happiness. Are people who carry their own weight generally more happy than those who choose to let others carry them? If not then why do I bother putting in the effort?

- Why does capacity to pay increase a persons social obligation? If it does then why is the additional spare time available to those with shorter working hours not included in the discussion? There may be a case for a flat rate of taxation based on a certain number of hours. I'm being taxed at about 530 hours of gross income per year, if that is truly a reflection of my share of social obligation then those without the capacity to pay with money could pay with community service (assumed capacity to pay with time instead of money).

Please note that I am not attempting to deal with the issues around the genuinely severly disabled in the above.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 12:28:30 PM
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Here we go again!
Tax is robbery by governments from their citizens.
Does anybody disagree?
Posted by RobertG, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 7:52:03 PM
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R0bert, you’re so right – I never really though of it that way! My figures based on hours paid, work out at 605 hours for the year, but when hours actually worked (instead of those paid), I get close to 800 hours. And that’s just income tax.

So why shouldn’t everyone put in their 15 hours a week of community service?

Even 10 hours a week would net almost $20 an hour at minimum social benefit rates – and that’s without tax.

Therefore, with tax, 15 hours per week for all social security recipients (excluding the genuinely disabled of course), sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Alternatively, we could reduce income taxes to levels where those working could afford to pay for services they need and have no capacity to provide themselves. We would then also avoid a huge bureaucracy to oversee such community service programs, and maybe even provide for more employment opportunities for those that really want to work full time – apart from sharing some social responsibility, we get to share some leisure time … Hey, this may even resurrect extended families and the community spirit. May even bring back some personal responsibility. Or am I just drifting back into some distant, irretrievable, happy past.
Posted by Seeker, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:13:57 PM
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