"The 'value' of their home is destroyed'? You mean gypsies don't look like Johnny Depp in 'Chocolat'?. I am disappointed.

Why do I feel the 'Old Hippie' in me rising?

Obviously it is impossible for a man with a mortgage to be kind to another human being, let them use his taps, share a table, exchange life stories . . . show kindness, receive kindness . . .ah that would be Christian then wouldn't it?
Oh gypsies would steal my tools while I am at work! and John Reed would say 'Property Is Theft'. We are all spinning through outer space in the pitch dark on a ball of molten rock, but some people value real estate more than humanity. beats me.

I'm not sure which of "the Jews" Kenny is referring to, aside from British Opposition leader Michael Howard (no relation that I'm aware of). Mr. Howard's political hot-button-pushing is proof, if any were needed, that the use of loaded rhetoric skirting the edges of bigotry is an equal-opportunity activity.

Go to
http://www.ushmm.org
and do a search on "gypsies" or "gypsy" to see some information on the slaughter of the Gypsies in the Holocaust. See also the prominence of attention to modern genocide in Chechnya and Sudan by following links in the section labeled "Inside: Conscience."

The best commentary I've seen in a long time on what lessons "we" (Jews, Gentiles, ... human beings in general) should learn from the Nazi Holocaust is in Nicholas Kristof's Op-Ed column in yesterday New York Times. See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/opinion/17kristof.html

Brownie, the people you are talking about are also people, even though they may have a different set of values from the gypsies. Why do you assume that one set of people should have additional rights in law over and above those of their neighbours? Because they are an ancient tribe? because they are picturesque? Because they had a hard time a couple of generations ago? Because it brings out the old hippie in you?

Charity is a wonderful thing when someone else is doing the giving, and you would be an unusual person in Australian society if you "let them use [your] taps, share a table, exchange life stories . . . show kindness, receive kindness". Try to be a little more understanding of what it might be like to have your particular choice of environment taken from you unlawfully.

As I said - I thought quite clearly - in my first post, the gypsies are clearly a disadvantaged people. Solving the problem by allowing them to create other disadvantaged people is a recipe for conflict, not for reconciliation or peaceful coexistence.

I also pointed out in my first post that rational debate goes out of the window when the race card is played. Politicians have pulled exactly the same trick here in Australia, and the voters have responded in exactly the same way. Intelligent discussion on immigration, detention, race relations etc. becomes instantly impossible, with the debate moving directly into that sink-hole of public opinion, talkback radio.

Pericles, I was not claiming additional rights for gypsies - 'the law is for protection of the people' etc - but I often wonder why it is so hard for everybody to be kind to others. everywhere. the world has many followers of religions - each one claiming to be pacifist in every way, yet I see no evidence of the claims being followed. what is a gypsy supposed to do - change their entire life? get a makeover from backyard blitz or nip n tuck? it's their total genetic heritage, like the Masai, they are simply not up the top of the evolution class with say, Nicole Kidman.

Thanks for clarifying your position Brownie, but it doesn't move the discussion forward at all. Yes, it would be perfectly lovely if everyone were to be nice to each other all the time, sharing the world and the bread from their table.

But if you are forced to take sides - as the law must - whose interests do you protect more vehemently? Those who are law-abiding, and choose to live as quiet a life as they can, or those who flout the law, abuse it, or even simply take advantage of the law's delay? You may think the law-abiding people to be selfish, you may consider the law-breakers to be romantic vestiges of a glorious past age. In my book that still doesn't represent good cause to ignore the law as it stands.

If the law needs to be changed in the gypsies favour, let it be done openly and honestly.

Sitting on the sidelines mooing gently "wouldn't it be nice" is to avoid the issue.