The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The Holocaustís forgotten victims still under attack > Comments

The Holocaustís forgotten victims still under attack : Comments

By Helen Pringle, published 13/4/2005

Helen Pringle argues Michael Howard is using some familiar tactics in the British General Election

  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
An excellent article Helen about an aspect of racism that is not spoken about but seems to be still alive. One disturbing point for me is that there are no comments on this site about your article. An article on other victims of racism would I am sure attract comment. Perhaps racism and the holocaust have developed their own stereotypes ie it's acceptable to persecute some minorities but not others.

Karl
Posted by karl, Thursday, 14 April 2005 2:33:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I agree excellent piece Helen. As for Karls comments I agree too Most people are not willing to defend others just themselves. Even the Jews have forgotten the lesson of the holocaust. They have moved from making sure itís like never happens again to making sure it doesnít happen to them again. Both the Jews and the Roma were stereotyped and demonized to the point that it seemed ok by the general public. Do we not see the same thing happening to the Arabs?
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 14 April 2005 2:58:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gypsies are a fundamentally disadvantaged people. Most estimates give the total gypsy population of the UK at 90-120,000. The British Medical Association describes them as "the most at risk health group in the UK, with lowest life expectancy and the highest child mortality rates". (Does that sound familiar, by the way?). They automatically qualify as downtrodden and oppressed, and were classified an "ethnic minority" by the 1976 Race Relations Act.

However, the reason that Gypsies are a hot issue in the UK at the moment has very little to do with race, and a whole lot to do with a group of people having special rights, merely because they have called themselves gypsies. If you trawl through the blogs a little, you will find the greatest grass-roots anger is directed at property owning Irish... sounds mad, doesn't it? Here's a short extract from one such, just as an example.

"The problem is NOT the traditional Roma, it is the sheer weight of numbers of Irish travellers : 800 for example have laid siege to the village of Cottenham in Cambs. The parish council followed some back to Ireland and found the village of Rathkeale who are also angry at these travellers who built huge houses that now lie empty for nine months of the year whilst their poor owners are in the UK claiming benefits, ripping off the locals and making money on which they pay no tax. The locals then have to pay to clear the mess up."

There is no question that Michael Howard deliberately lit this fire to stir up "little englanders". But there is equally no question of us having an intelligent debate about the underlying issues. Once the race card is played, it is on for young and old, and facts are for wimps. But I suggest it might be going too far to invoke the Holocaust against a Jewish Prime Ministerial aspirant.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 14 April 2005 3:40:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Little known fact to rock your socks: Miss Barbara Cartland of the pink gowns, and her daughter Raine, agitated politically and successfully, to gain school rights for gypsy children.
Michael Howard's spouse Sandra was previously married to the late Robin Douglas-Home at the time he had a very physical relationship with HRH Margaret Rose (the ending of which, caused him to suicide).
re British Vogue on gypsy skirts: perhaps encouraging the wearing of their clothing is a form of solidarity? The wealth classes themselves are not known for being geographically contiguous - London, the country, Deaville, Gstaad, Bahamas etc.
Posted by Brownie, Friday, 15 April 2005 9:17:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Your reply to Helen Pringle's article is lazy to say the least Pericles. Recycling garbage from the sun does nothing to legitimise your argument.
Irish Travellers are a distinct ethnic minority that have been in existence for 3000 years. Their first recorded appearance in England is in 400 ad (Gmelch) They are neither recent incomers nor some kind of low class 'wannabe's'. The terrible situation in Cottenham is a direct result of racist Government policies on either side of the Irish Sea.

Increasing industrialisation has invaded spaces traditionally occupied by Gypsies and Travellers, not the other way around. So called settled villagers cannot be invaded by people whose families have lived their for centuries, albeit on a regular circuit.
The majority's racism and exclusion has resulted in the life expectancy of Gypsies/Travellers in 21st century Leeds is worse than that for Bangladeshi people living in Bangladesh, according to a recent census. No doubt this is duplicated across the country. That should be a source of desperate shame. The solutions to the problems experienced by 'settled' communties are easy. We are all 'special', Gypsies and Travellers no less so than anyone else. It is high time to level up the playing field, humanity demands no less of us.
Posted by Hxhelen, Saturday, 16 April 2005 7:00:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If the blog that I quoted from - and there are many, many similar if you just look for them - may or may not have been reprinted in the Sun, but I can assure you that the Sun was not the source. Nor would I recycle anything from that rag except as humour.

The entire tone of Helen Pringle's article is sneering, but she should understand that it is ordinary people who are affected by the presence of gypsies near their homes. These are the people who Howard is speaking to, and whether you choose to accept it or not, there is very little "racist" in their anger. It is purely economic (but perhaps Ms Pringle sneers at this too) in that the value of their home, or its immediate neighbourhood, or sometimes an entire village, is destroyed when these folk arrive.

The principle concern, and the one that is being exploited by the Conservatives, is that once they arrive, there are few powers available to the man-in-the-street to be rid of them. Unlike the normal homeowner, who is required to conform to planning and zoning laws when it comes to how they develop their property and land, there appears to be no political will to resist their encroachment.

Whatever their romantic history, the various categories of travellers should, in the view of the invaded village, be required to conform with the law as it stands.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 18 April 2005 2:37:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy