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The Forum > Article Comments > Get over it! The hypocrisy over Anzac Cove > Comments

Get over it! The hypocrisy over Anzac Cove : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 7/4/2005

Stephen Hagan asks why the graves at Anzac Cove are any different to Indigenous burial sites.

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t.u.s We are way off topic but I think Graham is tolerant if the discussion is related to the issue in general.

Sorry, but I can’t agree with you about Government policy so please bear with me a bit longer.

Government’s treat many groups differently. They provide ramps for disabled. Some mean spirited people resent this. The resentment is the problem?

Secondly are you sure that Indigenous people are being treated so differently?

It is largely a myth that they get more money than the rest of us. Lots of money supposedly spent on them, has been for white profit. Lots of money was wasted because Govts didn’t provide support for organisations (like ATSIC) to operate effectively.

It seems obvious to me that Indigenous people (in general) are more disadvantaged than white people and it is in everyone’s interests to even the playing field by treating them ‘special’ if it seems useful.

But some more thought about what is needed. I think self-respect is important, respect for their culture from white society. This may be happening. I was surprised but very pleased when the Governor General suggested on Australia Day that we need to learn more about their culture.

Sorry is an indicator to some Indigenous people that the white government cares. They are not traditionally a cynical people. The failure to be able to say sorry demonstrates Howard’s emotional problems. He couldn’t apologise to Cornelia Rowe either, whereas Costello did.

And another thing to think about is that the idea of helping them all to achieve in our society is assimilation. It seems to me that we lose something very valuable by ignoring what their culture has to offer. I am not idealising it but a culture that was so stable for so long has to have some wisdom and insights into human happiness.

But if you are interested in Indigenous kids and their problems, I just heard about this wonderful website called ‘us mob’ Check out the story at http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/lm/stories/s1341400.htm
Posted by Mollydukes, Monday, 11 April 2005 6:28:50 PM
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David you are exaggerating! If I was blaming the well-meaning missionaries, I apologise. There is no question though that it was food mostly provided by missionaries that decreased the health and well-being of the Indigenous people back then.

Of course food distribution was done from the best reasons, just as the desire to turn them (and all of us) into Christians was, and is a genuine desire to provide people with something real and beautiful.

I think the real problem was (and is) that the missionaries believe that Christianity is the ‘only’ way. That is the sticking point for me. If, as a Christian you are prepared to see that others can find what you have without adopting your beliefs then we can have mutual respect, otherwise you are pitying me and feeling superior and that won’t do.

I really do recommend “Broken Song’ by Barry Hill to you. It is a marvellous insight into the psychology of TGH Strehlow (a Lutheran missionary) and his relationship with the Indigenous people, lots of knowledge about the religion of the central desert Indigenous tribes and about the attitudes and behaviour of ‘the usual missionary’ back then.

The idea back then was only to supplement the traditional foods but many of the Indigenous did not get this idea and pretty much gave up their traditional food gathering practices in favour of hanging out for the hand-outs.

Should we blame them for choosing the wrong option back then also? It is easy to blame the victim (and the missionaries?:) in western society
Posted by Mollydukes, Monday, 11 April 2005 6:47:14 PM
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Molly.. u got it in one :) yes, I was exxxxaggerating, to make a point.
The main issue you have with Christians is that they believe Christ is the only way ... well, its not an easy concept to accept. Most understandable. But then, we are simply echoing His own words. But more than this Molly, the presentation of Christ as the only way to God, is not in the vein of 'our religion is better than yours -ner ner' nothing could be further from the truth. It emerges from not only the sayings of Jesus, but the place Christ holds in salvation history. One would have to begin at Genesis and see how that plan unfolded, and that from the beginning its been about a fallen humanity out of fellowship with its creator, and that He (God) has been continually reaching out to mankind to restore that broken relationship. (Though Israel and finally Jesus) One cannot separate one from the other.

See what occurred between Thomas and Jesus in this dialog

5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

Molly, our faith rests on these words, not on what we would like Jesus to be. We are often charged with 'inventing' a Jesus of our own convenience. Trust me, the above words are NOT convenient. They immediatly isolate us from the rest of humanity. There is often a social cost, economic cost and family cost. But to understand this, is to understand why Paul and others suffered they did, willingly for Him.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 15 April 2005 7:44:44 AM
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The interview I heard on Radio National breakfast program this morning about the Anzac Cove graves disgusted me significantly. My first, and enduring, thought was the blatant hypocracy that exists in this country. Neither our contemporary "leaders", nor those in the past, are, or have been, prepared to recognise and acknowlege the disrespect shown to the sacred sites of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples through mining and agricultural pursuits, and now with coastal development pressures, such as the recent Sandon Point struggle on the south coast of NSW. The examples of this ignorance are too many to mention in the 350 word limit that exists on this forum.

I recently read a publication by John & Wendy Watt - "The Whitefella Problem". I wholeheartedly agree with one of the reasons the Watts put forward for this ignorance of our history with respect to Indigenous Australians - the truth of the history is not sufficiently publicised and discussed. We know far more about Jewish history or happenings in South Africa than we do about the subjugation and destruction of Indigenous peoples lives here on our own soil.

I have a great respect for the ANZACs and any person that goes to war for their country. We know a lot about these efforts because they are always in our faces. One commentator mentioned about "Sorry Day" - I think that a far greater extent of discussion and publicity in all forms of media about our Indigenous history since invasion, particularly on "Sorry Day" and during Reconciliation Week, would at least be a beginning to national appreciation. Then we may be able to move to respect and further onto "reconciliation". Even Radio National does not do enough of this on a "Sorry Day" - just listen to the reporting on Anzac Day.

I don't see any difference between the desecration of Indigenous burial sites and the graves at Anzac Cove
Posted by turtlignchild, Monday, 18 April 2005 10:56:42 PM
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I was embarrassed to see our illustrious PM on TV last night, expressing his concern at roadworks at Gallipoli. Somebody ought to tell him that we lost that battle - Gallipoli is Turkish territory.
Posted by garra, Tuesday, 19 April 2005 6:58:24 AM
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When one country thinks it has a right to 'advise' another about such things, I'd expect the turks to be tempted to go and dig them all up, sort out the bones from the dirt and send them all back where they came from with the words 'bite me' on the package.

Or, perhaps more effective, would be to re-count some of our own transgressions against aboriginal culture to our diplomats.

It is overwhelmingly hypocritical to whine about roadworks in Turkey, and not to worry about Aboriginal sites of similar cultural value.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 19 April 2005 10:24:01 PM
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