Any human rights abuses being perpetrated on the island of Cuba are occurring at Guantanamo under the control of that self professed purveyor of "Freedom & Democracy"The United States of America
I am not prepared to condemn Cuba for it's treatment of dissidents whilst the world accepts what the USA is perpetrating world wide in the name of 'regime change' to any country that dares to be different.

Here Here

Maracas,
"Any human rights abuses being perpetrated on the island of Cuba are occurring at Guantanamo under the control of that self professed purveyor of "Freedom & Democracy"The United States of America"

yeah, Sure....thats what everyone who escapes from Cuba say.
So how many people emmigrate from America to Cuba every year?
How many emmigrate from Cuba to America every year?
Guess Which total is bigger!

"I am not prepared to condemn Cuba for it's treatment of dissidents.."

Which is it? Does cuba mistreat dissidents or doesn't it? Make up your mind.

"...whilst the world accepts what the USA is perpetrating world wide in the name of 'regime change' to any country that dares to be different."

By your comments you seem to be supporting the concept that mere difference is the basis for the US's actions. This is a load of rubbish. I find it incredibly hypocritical of people trying to bash the US for its actions, and then refuse to condemn regimes that are far far worse. Get some perspective and grow up.

Quite a deal of 'Grey' area in that posting ......
If you care to read what I said you would be aware that I did NOT say cuba MISTREATS their dissidents.
If you knew what you were talking about you would also know that your hero George W. does not permit americans to visit Cuba nor does he allow foreigners to transit through the USA to visit Cuba.
If you developed an awareness of American foreign policy you would begin to understand that America consistently undermines and actively sabotages regimes which do not conform to US philosophy....
Cuba; Venezuela; Nicaragua;Haiti being the most recent.
You probably believe the US was justified in invading Iraq despite the irrefutable evidence to the contrary. If you must comment, Get your facts right.

Maracas,
Obviously you fail to grasp your own words.
When you say you are 'not prepared to condemn...whilst...'
You imply that there would be something to condemn if it wasn't for the greater/or more pressing issues involved in the 'whilst' portion of your statement.
Unless of course you feel that you are able to condemn something even though there is nothing wrong about it (I.e. you feel you can condemn Cuba's treatment of dissidents even though there was nothing wrong with that treatment). If you can perform the mental gymnastics to justify condemning something which you say has nothing wrong with it, then clearly, any position you hold is suspect

"you would also know that your hero George W. does not permit americans to visit Cuba nor does he allow foreigners to transit through the USA to visit Cuba."
Of course, and it is easy for Cuban's to emmigrate to the US too....
Such objectivity.
Lets make it simple...When people are travelling between the US and Cuba to escape their home country, which way are they going in almost every case known?

"If you developed an awareness of American foreign policy you would begin to understand that America consistently undermines and actively sabotages regimes which do not conform to US philosophy....
Cuba; Venezuela; Nicaragua;Haiti being the most recent. "
You mean if I looked at world politics through the anti-western drivel that permeats our leftist educators I would be brainwashed and spout idealistic drivel. Maybe when you show some balance in your opinions they will be valued by people other than left wingnuts.
I don't claim the US is perfect, but instead compare them to other nations in my judgement.

"You probably believe the US was justified in invading Iraq despite the irrefutable evidence to the contrary. If you must comment, Get your facts right."
Irrefutable evidence that you have no produced. And then you talk of facts...that is laughable.
If you would like to defend the position that freeing the people of iraq was not a suitable justification, feel free. It will show just how moral you are.

The hypocrisy and brutality of US administrations when it comes to Latin American politics is well known. As Tim pointed out, the Reagan Administration gave huge support to the Honduran and Guatemalan military as they conducted wars against their own population with a ferocity Saddam Hussein would be proud of. And now the Reaganite dinosaurs in the current Dick Cheney Administration in the US has the gall to berate Cuba.

HOWEVER (a big "however") Cuba under Castro IS a dictatorship and DOES suppress basic human rights. And it has a history of being vehemently anti-gay. While I believe this practice now has stopped, the regime used to lock up people suspected of being HIV positive in concentration camps.

Say what you like about the previous Batista regime, Castro is still a murderous thug. And many Cuban people would prefer to be unemployed in Miami than work in Havana with the secret police watching their every move. Castro's regime will hopefully go the same way as Apartheid South Africa or East Germany. For more information read The Black Book of Communism. Not a pretty picture.

Grey; go back and read my short post at the beginning.What I said is in plain english in black and white.I know what I said and I stand by the meaning of what I said. If you obtained your information from unbiased sources,You too would be enlightened. But no, people like you fear the truth, you feel insecure,if what you read in the alternate press questions your notion that only the right wing is on the correct path. You are the one who has been brainwashed.
Irrefutable proof is out there in alternative reports. Open your eyes, dont descend to attempts at ridicule with derogatory remarks.
As for freeing the people of Iraq !!You certainly have drawn the long bow there...
After 12 years of sanctions, Bush invades a weakened Iraqi Army despite world wide opposition;He declares 'Mission Accomplished' with a flying suited caricature on an Aircraft Carrier after a few weeks of Shock and Awe which destroyed infrastructure and killed uncounted thousands of civilians possibly in excess of 100.000
He is then faced with opposition from Iraqi patriots whose numbers swell each time his armed troops kill more innocents.He has run his country from a surplus into a $US 200 Billion deficit whilst his regime throws more money at the quagmire he has created. His lapdog Tony Blair and deputy sheriff,John Howard are complicit and bring our country into disrepute.I truly fear for the future when people like you refuse to face the truth and hide behind your bias

maracas, I used to fear for the future as well, when people like yourself had the moral high-ground in this country. To actually come out and say that you refuse to condemn Cubas treatment of dissidents because of US actions is not only hypocritical, but shameful. But then people like you have no shame.

What a joke! The left have NEVER condemned any human rights abuses by any socialist state. Stalin, Mao, Ho-Chi-Min, Castro, all responsible for untold millions of deaths and not a word from you. Yet watch the left go into apoplexia when the name Pinochet is mentioned. He was responsible for maybe 3000 people missing. This is bad enough and he deserves condemnation, but for inhuman brutality and the perpetration of human misery, he's only a light-weight.

Reading this ridiculous article anyone would think that Castro was a little ray of sunshine in an otherwise gloomy and dangerous world. He's a vicious murderer who has always put the welfare of his people last on his list, well behind his hunger for absolute power, down to legislating how much food people can eat. Any relaxation in Cuban laws regarding free enterprise etc. has come about only from US sanctions, not any melting of the Castro heart. The only consolation is that the monster is on the way out, approaching 80 years old he's very frail (both mentally & physically)and hopefully doesn't have long to live.

Another consolation we all have is that hypocrites, appeasers and apologists like maracas and Tim Anderson are well along the road to obvlivion as well. Just like their beloved socialism, before too much longer, they'll be as dead as the Do-Do. But while you're still on your death-bed maracas, employ the space in the tiny cupboard of your mind to think about the hypocrisy of your words. It might make the parting a little easier.

By the way - "......people like you refuse to face the truth and hide behind your bias " Maybe you can take some of your own medicine.

You Right Wing apologists can't handle truth and you still can't get your facts right.
I'm still waiting for one of you cretins to say a word against the crimes perpetrated by American Imperialism, anywhere !!
In case you missed it, Ho Chi Minh is revered by Vietnamese patriots and through the support of the Vietnamese people, The American invaders were defeated. History has noted the criminal excesses of the American invaders who have yet to pay war reparations. So it will be in Iraq...The people of Iraq deserve to plan their own form of Government not have an American model imposed on them .
I support a democratic Australia; an alternative to economic rationalism; corporate globalisation and war, a sustainable society of Justice and peace.If you want to call that "Socialist" thats fine with me but don't knock it... Its better than what you support.

Bozzie says "What a joke! The left have NEVER condemned any human rights abuses by any socialist state."

Not this leftie! I've already made some comments about Cuba. Another point I'll make is that all states, whether democratic or authoritarian, should be critically examined and condemned for any infringement on human rights. Obviously this will occur more often in authoritarian states. However, it is quite legitimate to haul the US Administration over the coals re: Abu Grahib etc.

One major difference, of course, is that democratic states respond and rectify their human rights abuses. In places like Cuba they just shoot you. Another difference is that authoritarian states single out groups of people as "enemies of the state". Cuba has had gays. China prefers the Falun Gong and Tibetans. Russia under Stalin had just about everyone except himself.

Maracas, Can you explain to me how your support of justice and peace tallies with Saddam’s murder of his own people? How can you reconcile this admirable aim with Castro’s murder and jail sentences for dissidents? Or with the Chinese murder and imprisonment of Christians or their cultural rape of Tibet? So you hate war but are quite comfortable with State sponsored oppression and murder so long as it’s in the pursuit of a socialist utopia? You are a hypocrite of the highest order! Your proclamation of justice and peace is pap!

By Vietnamese patriots, you mean the butchers of the North who executed thousands of their fellow countryman, including Vietnamese Christians. In case you missed it, the Vietnam war was about an imperfect democracy trying to save itself from invasion by the communist north. So because the South Vietnamese resisted re-unification under communist rule, they were invaded. The South refused to hand over their country to the communists and put up a fierce resistance against the oppressors. Seems like a scenario that normally would have maracas all excited with tears in the eyes.

I’m more than happy to denounce US policy where need be. Their activities in Latin America left a lot to be desired. The US were mainly trying to stop communism cementing itself close to their doorstep. Can you tell me why Russia annexed virtually the whole of Eastern Europe? When it comes to meddling in the internal politics of other countries, your beloved communists & socialists are masters.

DavidJS is at least sane. The left might be economic idealists, but socially they have some admirable principles that I think most people would aspire too. DavidJS can at least apply these principles evenly and to all, fools like maracas do not seem capable of this basic logic.

maracas you have to remember that our right friends have a very basic view of life everything is red and blue. Your either for or against something with us or against us, So when you try to have to talk with one of them you have to remember that. You also have to remember they can't concentrate for long and go off topic, it must hurt or something. They also have a overwhelming need to paint every lefty as a Stalin fan boy so they’ll thrown in the old commies killed lots of people thing and ignore the excess’s of the right at the same time. From early posts you'll know that the right believe everything bad in the world is because of the left and anything the right do is justifiable. We see this in our own Gov in their refusal to say sorry for anything they get wrong.

We went to war in Iraq because there was a threat to the world from Iraqis WMD’s. Iraq didn't end up having any so in order to not take responsibility for the that, they say he was trying to get them or he was not a very nice person anyway. Remember also that the explanation by the rightwing leaders aren’t made to convince everyone they only have to convince the right wing lowbrows like we get on this site. So remember bozzie can’t help it he only see’s in red and blue. As a lefty you also have to be on your guard that your frustration doesn’t make you only see red.

Maracas
"If you knew what you were talking about..."
and
" Open your eyes, dont descend to attempts at ridicule with derogatory remarks."

Your hypocrisy if obvious for all to see Maracas.

"Irrefutable proof is out there in alternative reports."
'Alternative' reports?
Laugh

Your sweeping generalisations are pointless and obvious.
You talk of truth, yet give no specifics. You are the 'useful idiot' that is so loved by enemies of freedom

You respond to talk of freeing iraqi people with non sequiters...such rational discourse...

DavidJS
"Not this leftie! I've already made some comments about Cuba."
Good to see. And I definitely support doing things to stop human rights abuses as well. I just don't support the witch hunts and biased drivel that people like maracas continually spout out.

Kenny
"We went to war in Iraq because there was a threat to the world from Iraqis WMD’s. Iraq didn't end up having any so in order to not take responsibility for the that, they say he was trying to get them or he was not a very nice person anyway"
Thats why, in every major presentation on reasons for going to war with iraq, freeing the iraqi people was mentioned. It was the reason I supported the war, and thats why it is so blindingly obvious when wingnuts try and revise history to help them bash views or actions they don't like.

For me, the recent war in Iraq has presented a dilemma. On the one hand, it was good to see Saddam Hussein overthrown. On the other, it was quite obviously a way for the Cheney Administration in the US to gain strategic and military advantage. After all, if the US, France and Germany and were really concerned about human rights they wouldn't have saved Hussein's arse back in the 1980s when Iraq was being beaten in the Iran-Iraq War.

To cite another example, it was great to see Pol Pot's murderous dictatorship collapse in 1979. But that meant the Hun Seng regime in Vietnam scored strategic and military advantage. These foreign policy dilemmas happen a lot and I'm not as sure of myself as I used to be in posing solutions.

maracas, here is one "righty" who thinks what is being done by the US in Guantanamo Bay is very dangerous (and wrong) and who also from his limited knowledge of the whole Cuban issue thinks that they are dealing with Cuba very badly. There are other places where I disagree with their internal and external policies and actions.

Having said that it is worth noting that they do make an attempt to limit their actions. Countries they invade do get to have elections with more than one party standing, time will tell how they go at withdrawing. I think for the most part they try hard to do it right, for a variety of reasons they don't always succeed.

DavidJS, very well said (from a straight righty). You have made the point very well that these issues are not black and white. I was very pleased to see Sadam overthrown but wonder how we justify that and leave North Korea alone (I don't want to see them invaded but would really love to see the North Korean people free of what appears to be a very repressive government). Discussion about the rights and wrongs of specific wars will always clouded by our own priorities and perceptions.

I think Tim Anderson's response to the SMH article is an important contribution from somebody who has actually visited the island and seen a little of the Cuban reality himself.

I have recently returned after 6 weeks in Cuba and like Anderson, found no hint of a population scared to pronounce their political views. The benefits of a free education system mean that the Cuban people are some of the most educated people you will meet. They have an opinion on everything and are not afraid to share it with anybody willing to listen!

Cuba is not a utopian paradise and Cubans are openly critical of elements of the current system (particularly in relation to the impact of tourism) but they in no way would like to overthrow the so-called 'dictatorship' to replace it with another system.

I was also lucky to see first hand how the election system operates in Cuba as they are currently preparing for elections this year. While Cuba does not have multi-party liberal democratic election system - it has an alternative system where people vote their local representatives into power in non-paid positions at a local and national level. The diversity of opinion within these elected officials means that although there it is technically a one party system, there is no shortage of debate and discussion from elected officials within the local and national assemblies (many of whom are not members of the communist party).

I think we need to be clear that liberal democracy does not equal democracy. Just because a country does not adhere to a liberal democratic notion of democarcy does not make it a dictatorship.

The majority of Cuban people support the current system - that is why it has lasted. The day the majority do not support it will be the day that it is overthrown.

Like Pink, I have also recently been in Cuba and support his/her observations. All the Cubans I met were very proud of their revolutionary history in overthrowing the ugly US-supported Batista dictatorship, and they are well aware of the pressures put on them by the current Bush administration (and its lackeys), which they face with courage and determination.

They do not hate Castro as many here would like to believe. They revere him (and Che) for his courage and leadership during the revolution, and for continuing to stand up to the mighty USA. But they are also capable of criticising Castro, particularly for being too hard on prostitutes and gays, for example, but they see this more as the product of an old warrior's ways and are prepared to wait him out.

Most importantly, Cuban children are well loved, heathy and highly educated. Art, music and dance flourishes everywhere. Cuban conversation is intelligent, provocative and funny. The food is pretty ordinary though.

Go and see for yourself, they like Australians...but don't go anywhere near Guantanamo, the yankees might shoot you.

Man I hate communist writers....