Isabelbirner “forcible abortion.” – is no different to “enforced pregnancy” – both represent the unwarranted intrusion upon the sovereignty of the individual.

Oh bozzie (maybe that should be Bosie – at least you would never have to worry about any issue of pregnancy if you followed dear Alfred Douglas’ predilections) – I asked what special insight you claim to possess which entitles you to interfere in the private decisions of strangers – so far all you have demonstrated is a presumption, without having met me or possessing any knowledge of how I interact with ladies that I am a “sycophant” to some feminist agenda – maybe you can give us a basis for such “judgement” along with whatever excuse you are prepared to spew up which does answer simple question which I asked.

Pro-Lifers seem to hear only the bilious expulsions of their own pitiful rant, against which the dissenting opinion of the competent people, quite capable of making decisions for themselves matters not. Your insulting attempt to drown out a voice of opposition adds nothing to the merit of your cause – quite the opposite.

Andy – this debate is not about you or your circumstances. The matter of “parental responsibility and rights” are an equally shared experience in every respect and if you are looking for someone to champion the equal rights of fathers in the family court you will find no one more disposed than I but such issues refer to the interaction and responsibilities to children only after they have been “born”.
Whilst a child is still developing within a woman’s body – comparing the father’s “role and risks” to the mother’s “role and risks” is farcical.
The last time I looked – "pregnancy" did not place any risk on the fathers body.

Seeker – after using the “CR” moniker for the past few years, please accept some credit - you are the first to crack it – now maybe I should change to “Collo Rosso”!
As for Bosie – his and your subjective opinion are not absolute – and no more valid than mine.

Col says “Whilst a child is still developing within a woman’s body – comparing the father’s “role and risks” to the mother’s “role and risks” is farcical.”

Comparing a lifetime of risk that men undertake, to the nine months of pregnancy, is a little disingenuous (especially when it comes from our objective, all knowing, all seeing, Col).

This supposedly greater risk in pregnancy and childbirth probably also explains the differences in life expectancy between men and women. The risk averse males do not compete to mate, to protect and provide for their family, to build and protect their community and country. No, women of course do all that from their hospital beds with an epidural in their backs, and their fingernails in their perpetrators’ arms.

Or is it perhaps all due to the natural, risk taking of reckless redneck males competing in the annual Darwin Awards?

Boaz baby, 'carved me up?' In your dreams. For someone who has their head buried in a bible you sure have trouble with a metaphor - 'women hold up half the sky'. You're the one who see this as a competition. My view is that men and women (and couples in general) are halves of a partnership based on friendship and respect. However, any chance you get, B D, you just love to have a go at me. But that's OK I love the sport.

The irony here is that overall we agree that the metrosexual is a media construct.

Ciao

Oh is my furry lil face red - previous post wrong forum. Ooops, laugh on me I guess. Still I expect that Boaz has enuff intelligence to figure the above post was meant for 'men in mascara'. Too early in the A.M.

:-))

Deuc, thanks for your comments. A bit more nitpicking/looking at the other side. Sorry to all for getting so far off topic with this but there is a relevance based on the way the discussion has flowed.

The topic of child support comes into the abortion debate due to the current massive impact on fathers in not having any choice post sex about assumption of the responsibilities (compared to the opportunity for women to have abortions or give children up for adoption).

- We need more studies into shared parenting (including failure points).
- It only takes one parent to create a litigation situation if their demands are really unreasonable. One parent can bust their boiler to make shared work and that has little meaning in terms of keeping things out of the courts if the other is determined not to shared parent. All they have to do is move far enough away to make it a no go for the courts and you have a problem.
- Your comment "attempts to apply for full custody just to reduce child support" might be better stated as "attempts to apply for full custody to improve the overall welfare package". The financial gains for a low income payee (FTB, pension etc, child support, rent assistance) are much greater than the reduction in child support to a payer generally. The way the formula is structured someone who works may have to pay child support to the other parent even if they have the child/children most of the time.
- Many of the big issues are big issues regardless of the living arrangements. The concept of shared responsibility means both parents should have a say in significant decisions about the childs life regardless of who the child primarily resides with. Sometimes they are the sticking points, not the day to day items.

Seeker – the “risks” life present, in a healthy relationship, are experiences to be shared between the parents, not endured hopelessly by the man alone.
If you existence is thus then all I can say is your “life experience” must be a shallow and pathetic thing, when compared to mine.

Simply put, I believe men and women are Equal and to be treated so except, when I look at a “pregnant mother” and I look at the “pregnant father”, only one of them seems to possess a uterus and only one will experience the “risks” of pregnancy.
Thus during a pregnancy, of the couple, the woman has a significantly different level of “involvement” than the man.
The rest of the relationship, bringing up babies and families is a responsibility shared.
Of course you might be the “type” (you know the ones high on inferiority complex and low in real character) who feels entitled to impose their physical presence and “paternal authority” to be first to use the bath water.

As for you describing me as being “all-seeing and all-knowing”, I guess what you thought of as “sarcasm”, when consider with what I have written above, actually reads true and reflects a parody of our relative states of emotional, social and intellectual development.