Looking back through comments in the different forums on abortion, and in other literature, then I think the following beliefs (in 350 words) are now much in evidence from feminist supporters. There is minimal evidence to say differently.

-Marriage, husbands and fathers are of no positive value.
-Females should have ad-hoc, temporary relationships only with males.
-Love is not important, and males should only be used for money or sex.
-If the female becomes unintendedly pregnant, then this is the male’s fault.
-The pregnancy is an imposition on the woman’s life, with abortion the only option.
-The mother owns the foetus, and the father is irrelevant.
-The decision to terminate the child’s life is the mother’s only, and the father need not be involved in that decision.
-If the mother keeps the child, the father must provide money (currently called child support)
-Apart from money, the father is an imposition on the mother’s life.
-Because the mother owns the child, she need not discuss with the father how any of that money is spent, or how she is raising the child.
-The mother need not allow the child any contact with its father, or she may allow token gesture contact only.
-Fathers will abuse the child, or will make the child harmfully masculine.
-Any objection to these general principles by another female is to be ignored.
-Any objection to these principles by a male, and he is to be labelled “misogynist”, “ignorant”, etc or told to ”grow up”, “get a life” etc, or it is inferred that he has never had sex with a female, is not a real man etc. (ie. Attempt to psychologically castrate the male)

The feminist will try to hide the above issues behind smoke screens such as violinists, 1970’s politicians or whatever else can be found. The feminist will also imply that any objections or changes to the above system will be taking away the rights of women. The feminist will also program women into believing that she need not answer any questions asked by a male, as males are inferior.

mscobina, perhaps your arguments have gone over my head. Typing them slowly probably does not help (in the same manner as shouting at people who don't speak english does not help). I am not one who see's them as anti-male, rather as double standards based on the idea that women should get special treatment. I hope you don't think women are less capable of making decisions than men :( .

If I have understood you and others correctly you believe (I may be putting words into your mouth, sorry if that is the case but nobody seems to want to put the bits of the argument together in a coherant manner)
- Women should have freedom to choose an abortion or to carry the fetus/child/lump of cells with the choice being entirely a matter between the woman and their doctor. The woman also has a choice to be involved in the sex act in the first place.
- Men have the right to choose not to partake in the sex act. If you don't want a baby then don't risk sex. If a man chooses to be involved in the sex act and a pregnancy results then he should willingly wear the consequences and not expect to have any further say in the matter.

Please feel free to spell out what I have got wrong (type at any speed you like). If I have it right please try and explain in a logical and consistent manner why the rules should be different for men and women. I don't buy the argument that the burden of bearing a child for 9 months is so gigantic that the impact on a father of 18 years of child support can be totally discounted (just to give you a chance to avoid basing your case on that idea).

To answer your questions (Once and for all)...

***"Women should have freedom to choose an abortion or to carry the fetus/child/lump of cells with the choice being entirely a matter between the woman and their doctor"

Um... Yes.
Is strapping her down till she delivers an unwanted child a better option?

****"The woman also has a choice to be involved in the sex act in the first place"

What a spoiled tart!
(Do you think it unreasonable to offer her such a "comparative smorgasboard" of choice?)

**** "Men have the right to choose not to partake in the sex act"

Unpopular as it would be for many men AND women, yes.
If they don't like it - they can bloody well - um, lump-it.

**** "If you don't want a baby then don't risk sex"

You can have sex, but you might (both) be confronted with an unplanned pregnancy.

I myself always establish the pro/anti stance of sexual partners BEFORE horizontal folkdancing (Interestingly - most attractive, bonkable types are pro-choice)

**** "If a man chooses to be involved in the sex act and a pregnancy results then he should willingly wear the consequences and not expect to have any further say in the matter"

He can certainly "have a say" but not be able to strap her down untill she produces an heir, or march her to a church with a sawn-off rifle buried into the base of her skull.
(Yes Timkins, i'm talking to YOU)

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I am always amazed at the tenacity of anti-choice crusaders.

If they are so dedicated to protecting and preserving "life" why don't we see them picketing James Hardy, Military Bases, Gun dealers, or Tobbacco Manufacturers?

Why?

Because it's really about controlling women ;)

Room from hell. Disguised as subjective opinion or objective truth. a bowl of fruit on my head and you guessing whether I'm Carmen Miranda or a Froot Loop. Stop posteuring - no-one knows what you're saying. Gathering statistics on websites? It's not about stats. As stated, I don't care who wants one in what circumstance, it should be a legal and safe entitlement. Women on the whole don't use it carelessly. If you think it's wrong that women should have this particular right, stand on a political/local platform in your electorate and see how far you get. The "good old days" where women had to cope/deal with unwanted pregnancies are gone.

Andyman - i have not jeopardised/failed my case. I was the one that was pregnant and aborted as I was 19 going on 15; boyfriend didn't know; never wanted a baby; no support from family; no financial means of MY OWN; absolutely terrified and sick every day. Not a luxurious postion. If not my decision, whose should it have been? Comparisons with females in the workplace busting your balls for supremacy is superfluous and churlish. Methinks the HR manager may have given you a hard time in her powersuit?

I have an unquestioned right to do as I please within the law - without pissing off the populous. I don't walk slowly over pedestrian crossings then pretend to stumble in the middle. I don't pretend to forget my pin number in a supermarket queue. I will not rob a bank or commit a crime, unless it becomes outside a law that violates my rights. One is different from 19 than 42. As someone who practices contraception more carefully I do feel more morally responsible about the decision, but would make the same one.

Andyman,regarding sussing out your ex-wife's drawer is probably a good reason why she is no longer there. Change your moniker to Sick Puppy.

Col - life not being fair, I think Mark Twain said " Expecting life to be fair is expecting not to be charged by a bull in his paddock because you're a vegetarian".

Brazuca, when you pose provocative questions about Jews I think it is only reasonable to understand the frame of reference.

"Make up your mind. Either you're gonna attempt to answer the questions or keep offering endless qualifications."

I don't consider seeking an understanding of your frame of reference - "objective truth" - to justify the description "endless qualifications". There is no such thing as an objective truth, and you know it, which is why you can't define it, and which is why no-one will answer your stupid question about Jews.

No-one should assume that women who believe in their right to decide their own destiny are "castrating feminists" any more than one should assume "all men are rapists". The body politic has moved on since the 1970s. People with something thoughful and worthwhile to say don't need to fall back on such tired old stereotyping - which is intellectually lazy, immature and disrespectful.

You know who you are.