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The Forum > Article Comments > Get Ready for the Flat Tax Debate > Comments

Get Ready for the Flat Tax Debate : Comments

By Joff Lelliott, published 19/9/2005

Joff Lelliott reviews global tax debates and concludes that flat tax will have to make an appearance in the Australian tax debate.

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As a conservative person who has followed various tax reform arguments for sometime, I have no hesitation in stating that a flat tax rate is not the way to go. Not only would the public sector take a bashing beyond the even wildest dreams of any conservative, inflation is also adversely effected by the flat tax system. Eastern Europe is a prime example of this.

Having said that lower tax rates can be achieved for everybody very easily. I would propose a 35/25/15 split with a tax free threshold of $15,000. While to some this may seem outlandish, the @$10 billion needed to fund it would be very easily recouped. The key to this is a simplified system.

Firstly no more tax deductibles. It is a bizarre state of affairs when as a mid twenties professional I can avoid tax by purchasing a luxury car, and writing depreciation/lease payments off. It shouldn't be just those with a social conscience that find this wrong. The trend towards extravagant consumerism poses more of an economic threat than any tax cuts.

Secondly having a $15,000 tax free threshold would eliminate much of the justification for unemployment welfare, and encourage low skill workers away from taking the dole option. Orchards, construction sights, and bars are just a few of the avenues available frequently to the unskilled labour force. The jobs are there. This threshold would also encourage more of our seniors out of the house, and onto casual/low hrs employment.
Posted by wre, Monday, 19 September 2005 2:40:36 PM
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"no more tax deductibles"

Surely you agree some items should be tax deductible?

You said luxury cars shouldnt be tax deductible, but what about utes for farmers?

What about small business owners who have to pick up goods from warehouses, shouldnt fuel for these trips be tax deductible? Likewise, sparky's and plumbers, who need to travel for their jobs. With fuel prices what they are, those in the lower income bracket should be allowed to claim these costs back.

I think a better way to decide what is and is not tax deductible should be to base this on income, lower incomes should allow for greater tax deductions.
Posted by wrighta, Monday, 19 September 2005 8:12:20 PM
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We should be seeking to abolish income tax (ie a flat rate of 0%).

We can make a start by increasing the tax free threshold and indexing the tax brackets to wages growth (not CPI).

Lower taxes is more important than flatter taxes. I think the top tax rate should be cut but I would also support reductions in the other tax brackets even if these happened first. The less people that have to pay income taxes the better.

Oh and yes spending will need to be cut. Mostly all the middle class welfare (ie Family Tax Benefits etc). Welfare should be a state responsibility anyway.

We should also stop lieing about the medicare levy. 1.5% does not cover the health budget. It would need to be an 8% levy if it was to really pay for the cost of Medicare. Perhaps we should cut tax rates by 6.5% and increase the levy to 8% just in the name of honesty.

Income tax is a tariff on interhousehold trade. A trade barrier we would be better off without
Posted by Terje, Monday, 19 September 2005 10:00:40 PM
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I recognize that the Flat Tax article was merely a progress report rather than an endorsement or criticism. However, all income tax is essentially confiscatory since it penalizes human labor; worse yet, the graduated tax polarizes society into various classes so beloved of socialists. I'm reminded of a school-boy joke as to why Robin Hood robbed the rich and he replied "Because the poor don't have any money." A noneteenth century America, Henry George proposed a taxation system which horrified Karl Marx who was moved to declare that it would destroy Communism. Perhaps that is why left-leaning countries (are there any other kind?) never consider Henry George's Single Tax proposal. I would ask the professor to comment on the Single Tax system and George's "Progress and Poverty"
Posted by styxes, Monday, 19 September 2005 10:29:32 PM
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I welcome any movement towards a lower taxing, lower spending, smaller government. Advocating that the tax code makes life fairer disguises the fact that life isn't fair. The confiscate and redistribute mentality of the modern Australian state encourages pork barrelling and inefficient (and often ineffective) wealth allocation. This includes, of course, tax minimisation schemes, which the complicated tax code rewards, but which result in non-economic allocation of capital, as well as government spending, which directs public funds to the squeakiest wheel, rather than the most efficient. Throwing taxpayer's hard earned rarely solves the problems they are directed at, but certainly lead to unintended consequences such as high marginal rates of tax for those seeking to move from unemployment into employment, that results in the unnatural, although highly rational behaviour of choosing to remain outside of paid employment.

Australians are smart enough to manage their own personal affairs without needing the nanny state to wrap them in cotton wool. A decrease in government services would inexorably lead to private provision of those services, services directed to where demand leads, to within the capability of the consumer to pay. Rather than be forced into providing a uniform service level to all consumers, as public service providers are chartered with, private providers would be able to tailor services to the needs of specific consumers. Lowering tax, be it by a flat tax or any lower tax scheme, would enhance the consumer's ability to pay for services they require.

Defenders of high taxation point to all the government services they pay for, without feeling they have to defend the actual provision of public services in the first place. To those that see the solution in the state, public services are sacrosanct, reductions in services heinous, and failure to increase services irresponsible, the law of unintended consequences be damned. The fact that so much taxation is simply a churning excercise of confiscate and reward, reducing people to merely taxpayers and welfare recipients, more like children than responsible adults.
Posted by Brendan Halfweeg, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:43:45 AM
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Wrighta your comment above is obviously ill informed, and based on nothing but the notion of 'the rich owe us.'Why is it impossible to help the poor without penalising those who work, or who have competed in high paying positions? Surely you don't tell your children at school to only achieve C's in order to not upset the other kids? Arguments like yours are why the brightest amongst us are leaving for overseas, the middle class is becoming increasingly burdened and welfare will become unsustainable in the long run.

I don't agree that there should be any tax deductibles at all. The whole idea of eliminating them is to make the system more transparent,less costly,and easier to understand. The savings that could be achieved are astronomical. By the time a farmer saved accounting fees, time lost dealing with bureaucrats and his income tax the loss of other benefits wouldn't seem so bad.
Posted by wre, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 8:32:16 AM
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