I refer to the article written by Opposition Spokeswoman on Education, Jenny Macklin, yet again Ms Macklin has got her facts wrong.

The report Skills for Work which Ms Macklin mentions in her article has recently been completed and will be released publicly next week. If Ms Macklin were paying attention she would know officials from my Department confirmed in an Estimates hearing a fortnight ago, that the report would be released.

Contrary to Ms Macklin’s suggestions, the report finds that the Howard Government’s New Apprenticeships system has been an enormous success. It confirms that the Government’s policies have made New Apprenticeships more responsive to the needs of industry and have created new and more flexible opportunities at increasingly high skill levels, across occupations and industries that have not had a history of structured training.

In the twelve months to September 2004, 68,500 people commenced New Apprenticeships in a trade – a 19% increase on the previous year. Although we have made a lot of progress, there is still more to be done to address skill needs and we are getting on with it.

GARY HARDGRAVE MP
Minister for Vocational and Technical Education

This is interesting. For many years sections of the media and various organisations have been blasting the public about how important it is (particularly for males) to get in touch with their feelings. Now we are hearing how important it is for people to get in touch with the world around them, through such things as science.

Ho Hum.

This getting in touch with feelings has lead to an education system that heavily concentrates on feelings, and science has slid into near oblivion. While a child could describe what happened on their favourite TV program last night and how they felt about it, the same child may not be able to give a reason why the sky is blue and grass is green.

“Metal workers, toolmakers, mechanics, electricians, carpenters and bricklayers are all in desperately short supply.” The vast majority of such trade positions are made up of males, because females rarely apply. Frankly I believe they never will. Too dirty, too noisy, too hot, too heavy etc. It is men who will have to do it

Meanwhile most political parties do not even recognise men or fathers, as they do not have policies for men or fathers, except for some health policies to keep them alive. And, as can be seen even in so many articles in OLO, fathers are rarely even mentioned in the media.

Meanwhile government pours money into many organisation that can only be described as being highly ani-male, and those same organisations show almost no concern for reliable, objective research and data.

Both government and these organisations have also not shown the slightest concern for the 10,000’s of fathers who have been removed from their children, and quite a few of these fathers would be working in trades, (such as electricians, boilermakers, mechanics etc), and could act as a role model for the children.

So who is going to be the role models now?

I also find it concerning that the word “recruit” is being used for 5 year olds. “Encourage” perhaps, but the word recruit does have significant connotations of exploitation.

How sad it is to read between the lines and realise that Jenny Macklin, a senior government leader, really has no clue of how to solve the problems facing our nation which she so learnedly discusses.

That she starts off with political sniping merely reinforces my perception that there are just too many people obsessed with personal gain and not with effectively fixing our growing social illness.

We need to get away from politics and properly fix the problems or we will have disaster!

This issue of a ‘skills shortage’ is a social problem, brought about by a change in culture personified by the frivolisation and idiotisation of the great mass of common Australian people. Our kids are being relentlessly saturated with the seductive trendiness of filthy hip-hop and decadent rap, mobile phones, computer games, hot cars, drugs, alcohol, sports, scumbag fashion and anything-goes sex.

How can anyone rationally wonder why they have no time or interest for science and study when all these other matters, hammered at them by cunning, disingenuous and self-serving marketers, crowd their underdeveloped brains?

Twenty-five years ago I warned that Australia would be facing a disastrous shortage of properly-qualified young workers. Twenty-five years ago there were no mobile phones, hip-hop, rap and on-yer-crack jeans, so how could I have known then that it would come to this?

Those who believe all the seductive attractions of modern life are the problem could never get it, which is why for twenty-five years they told me (as I am still often told today) that I did not know what I’m talking about.

I take no joy from telling you that, unfortunately I was never wrong….

It’s a lil’ old-fashioned thing called……discipline.

Oops, sorry for using such a politically-incorrect word, folks!

Two years ago, I warned that our governments cannot solve these growing problems. Two weeks ago, Premier Peter Beattie, responding to questions about the increasing violence on Brisbane’s streets, validated my warning. “There’s only so much a government can do”, said he, quite correctly.

Due to the 350-word restriction, the second half of this post will follow later.

Continuing from my previous post….


Two years ago I stated that…

“It is delusional to think that the government's laws will keep people in line. It is very mistaken to think that to keep people honest, moral, decent and civilised requires only government intervention or control. Our government simply cannot police everything all the time—unless we become a kind of dictatorial 'police state'.

Do you want that?” (today’s comment: if you look at those lines of ‘riot-geared’ police in Sydney’s streets these past few nights, what are you actually seeing? By the way don’t get me wrong, I support our police 100%. Thank God we—for the most part—have them between us and the barbarians within our midst…)

And…..

“(there is a basic reason) why those who constantly seek a ‘quick-fix’, or come up with some or other ‘modern’ new, untested ideas or solutions, fail to comprehend the true causes of our social difficulties. (I can elaborate, another time perhaps?)
Which is why, despite their most strenuous and apparently genuine efforts, they watch in frustration as the problems within our society inexorably deepen.

Perhaps the most frightening fact of our growing problems is that our governments have absolutely no effective means of combating them, even when they ‘seriously’ try to. Worse, people at top levels of any government of any political persuasion cannot, or perhaps more accurately, dare not."

and.........

“Right now most people think.... ‘the government or police will deal with it’. WRONG (and forget our churches)"

and.....

“From better (accurate) understanding will come the wisdom that our society desperately needs from large numbers of people, which includes all leaders: political, religious, legal, educational and today’s most frighteningly powerful and dangerous social ‘leaders’ of all: commerce and the media.”

(end quotes)

There are solutions, folks, but whether people will listen and whether we have the intellectual courage to do what it takes is a whole other matter.

Those who care and are willing to absorb new and drastically different (and certainly more effective and productive) ways of thinking can learn more at http://www.oz-aware.com and http://www.decency.org.au

"Chalk and talk,Touch and wonder?" Here we go, Labor off in fairy land again.They wonder why they have been relegated to the dust bin of obscurity.What has 20,000 less university places got to do with fewer people being trained for the trades?The status of a uni degree doesn't necessarily make you a more productive human being.We now have degrees for nurses,police publics servants etc.What can they actually do? Where is the experience?
The major reason for skill shortage is that we have had 9yrs of economic growth which Labour has never achieved.The other reasons are disincentives for employers to expand their businesses due mainly to Labor Govt regulations.Just look at NSW.In their infinite wisdom they have brought in all these regulations supposedly to make the work place safer.Work cover is $2.5 billion in the red.The NSW Govt employees have three times the claims of private enterprise.Last year it was $672million.The NSW GOVT is responsible for the blow out in workers comp claims!So to remedy the situation the NSW Govt expands the beaurcracy inflicting rules ,regulation and fines on private enterprise to address a deficit in work cover their own making.To cap off this debacle the employer not only pays the premium but also the cost of a workers comp claim over a 3yr
period in the form of increased premiums.Now the the trades are a dangerous occupation.Why would you want to train some one under these conditions.To top it off we have unfair dismissal.Nearly on every occasion the employer pays.Guilty until proven innocent.There are a million small businesses in this country and they employ the bulk of the population.Why would they want to employ and train an apprentice under these conditions?Jenny Macklin you have no idea!I can't believe we have the potential of this sort of mentality to rule this country once again!Jenny ,get out there and talk to the business,the engine room of productivity.

Anyone who's followed national politics over a period of years will have heard Labor's endless 'more training' refrain. It seems their only solution to any economic problem is for 'more training'. But what about training?

Is it really economically sensible to put everybody thru Year 12 and University like Labor wants? If those 20,000 students Jenny Macklin talked about went to University, what chance would the economy have of getting trades people out of them? Labor needs to get off its ideological high horse and recognise that not everybody is born to be a professor. That children who don't have the intelligence or commitment to further studies would be better off getting into the workforce rather than wasting time and taxpayers money pursuing something they're not interested in and society doesn't need.

Surely the large number of first year uni students that drop out tells us a large percentage of 'unsuitable' people are attempting uni?

I won't go into questions about why Jenny Macklin has been dept leader of Labor during a disastrous period in its history: why she's escaped all responsibility for any ills (don't mention gender!!); and of course why she's still there....

So nice to experience Timkins and ozawares' special versions of reality again - although I suspect the actuality would be bit lonely for my liking :)

Like many ex-academics, more than a decade ago I commented that many of our 'fresher' students seemed better equipped for training in a trade than for the more intellectually demanding requirements of a university degree. It seems I was right: the quality of degree content has certainly declined in my disciplinary areas (Humanities and Social Sciences) in order to 'dumb down' for the market. At the same time, the demand for qualified tradespeople has exploded, to the point that I fear a whole generation is happening that wouldn't know good tradesmanhip if it fell over it :(

Not to mention our current crop of semi-literate professionals... sigh. We'll always need more scientists, but right now I'd like a competent and available electrician, or a plumber within 50 km. It'd be nice if the people who run the local paper could spell too!

I now run my own business in the communications/transport industry and employ people.

I vote Green. While I applaud Jenny Macklin's advocacy of science education, I can't help but think that we are, after all, reaping the bitter harvest of the Dawkins reforms - however well-intentioned.

Education needs a radical re-think, but I'm not at all sure that Dr Nelson's agenda will produce the mix of skills, knowledge and research that we will need this century.

Kind regards,
Morgan

Morgonzola,
If you wish to make comments regards myself then you can be specific. If you want to make generalized comments then don’t bother.

The point is that it “will” most likely be males who will be filling trades positions such as bricklayers, builders, electricians (particularly industrial electricians), welders, fitters, mechanics etc. Women are heading for office work, and I see no reason to believe that this will change

However in the past, government has almost totally ignored men. No major party has a policy for men and boys, but all have policies for women, I understand that up to 30% of an average MP’s mail is taken up with matters such as complaints about Family Law and CSA (which seems totally intent upon decimating families). In almost all cases MP’s simply ignore these letters and e-mails from men and fathers, but huge amounts of money are annually poured into groups that are quite anti-male.

The amount of money spent on men’s health is abysmal compared to female health issues, and personally I have heard from nurses complaining about it, as they have to nurse male patients with minimal resources. As well male suicide (for both youths and men) is one of the main reasons for male death.

Many 10,000’s of fathers have been removed from their children’s lives and left as Disney Dads, and now government wants 5 yr olds to become interested in science and technology and trade work.

Oh yeah. In the present circumstances, I think government is carrying out wishful thinking. Most likely government will import 20,000 “mere males” to fill the trade shortage, but when these “mere males” begin to see what government like to do to men, then I think it is going to become a big problem in the future for government.

It's interesting that overwhleming the posts (so far) to this article by Jenny Macklin, have proven so negative. And its pleasing that they have.

Macklin continues to rant, but unfortunately, comes up with no viable alternative solution. Liek so many of her parliamentary colleagues.

As a long term Labor supporter, I continue to be disappointed by the federal Party's efforts on a range of policy areas.

Its time that the trade union hacks were scuttled, and replaced with people, candidates and party members that have real world experience, and policy skills to share.

Morgan….

>>>>>>>>" reaping the bitter harvest of the Dawkins reforms - however well-intentioned."

What is infinitely sad about this statement is that you actually admit that Dawkin's leftist-style thinking and ideology -"however well-intentioned"- has resulted in a social disaster.

Yet, by continuing to vote Green and support Jenny Macklin, you show that you STILL cannot distance yourself from such "well-intentioned" but provably irrational and invariably idiotic ideologies.

You are the first leftist I have come across who actually "gets it"-and then, against all reason, STILL does not "get it".

Due to the silly 350 word limit, this post continues at http://www.oz-aware.com/debate4.htm

We need a stronger Labor party since the coalition without competition will quickly decay after so long in office.The Aust. public have moved to the right and Labor are in denial about the need for a more disciplined and responsible society that is less concerned about rights.I was gob smacked by Jenny's article.

Presently I would liken Labor to a glazed pig on a spit,turning in the same old circles with no fire in the belly,and the carcass is beginning to rot.

The skills shortage solution is in the hands of industry. We have a booming economy with record profits, yet no-one wants to take on many apprentices. Why should the government pay for it?

Industry, step up to the plate. I'm willing. Out of sydney too with suitable relocation assistance.

I am a skilled Australian; I completed a mechanical engineering degree hons and faced nothing but long-term unemployment for the last 10 years. Every agency/employer I went to said the same thing sorry markets down, or you need 5-10 years experience. Everything is made in china.

If trades were that good people would do them. The truth is they do not offer long-term stability. You may do well transiently, but it is too easy for a government to flood the market. You are typically self-employed and so are a second-class citizen e.g. no doc’s home loan.

Farmers complain that they can’t get fruit pickers. Bu all that means is that people don’t want their fruit. What it means is that the farmer cannot pay the picker enough from an alternative job to make a profit from the produce when sold to the market. We need to stop supporting rural areas, which make up only 3% of GDP and destroy our country by taking 50% of the water! Farmers and rural areas are near useless.

Science degrees are near useless. Scientists struggle to get a job, get low pay and are not understood or reconised in a sports crazy nation. I saw an article about an Australian graduate scientist of the year forced onto unemployment because there were no job opportunities.

We have witnesses the downfall of it, as this is outsourced to countries where virtual slave labor is allowed. Accountancy is being outsourced (good).

The only degrees worth while are medicine and law. that’s it. I think everyone should have the option of doing any degree they want. Law should almost be mandatory so that each individual can assert his or her rights. This would stop governments and others kicking people around.

Jenny Has made some good points but she is after all is said and done a polly and if her party where in power she would most likely be saying the same things as Brendan I've never vote liberal in my life Nelson. I actually don't think there is a skills shortage more a shortage of people willing to work in those areas many of which once worked into them. The various governments and pressure groups need to look at the real value of these workers. Much work needs to be done by these same groups to show that the around 80% of young people that don't go to uni are not failures. After all sanitation and clean water saves more lives then doctors do.

Lastly I want to know why GARY HARDGRAVE MP the Minister for Vocational and Technical Education is posting under the name Suzanne mmm and if he is a tradesmen?

I must confess to being confused about the connection between twenty thousand young people not getting to University and the shortage of science graduates.

Were those twenty thousand all denied places on science courses. Well I suppose the inference is clear, from Jenny's point of view they must have been. However, personally I suspect that many of those twenty thousand were denied the opportunity to study Tourism at Wup Wup College of TAFE, or maybe even Chinese Traditional Medicine in Footscray—a VCE in science probably not required, but an affinity with crystals and a willingness to suspend scepticism definitely desirable.

If those twenty thousand were at the bottom end of the VCE feeding chain then them not getting a University place may actually be regarded as a mercy. Science after all does take some mathematical ability and simply creating the university place does not necessarily create the people with the necessary ability to fill those places.

The Howard government seems to have the inclination to make a university education just a little bit more exclusive; and with luck we may even see a reduction in the number of tourism and vocational courses currently on offer, hopefully to the benefit of the more scientifically inclined disciplines. Hip hop and Chinese Medicine our great fun but they probably don't belong in a university.

A complex issue no doubt.

Why do we pay sportspeople and other entertainers more than scientists?

How do we get the balance right to help tradespeople have the flexibility others have - how hard is it for a tradesperson to start late to drop the kids to school or do the other things parents do?

How do we get someone to start down a career path that tops out at "low income" when many professionals make multiples of a tradespersons income doing much easier and safer jobs?

No answers here but personally I think a good scientist is worth a lot more to Australia than a footballer or cricket player.

When I arrived in this country 25 years ago it took less than six months for me to start asking "Does Australia not manufacture anything here anymore?" because there were so many everyday items with "Made in China" labels. Even than I knew that this day HAD to arrive, despite assurances from my new Australian associates that "Don't worry mate, THIS is Australia, WE are different, we KNOW what we are doing".

With our trade deficit off the charts, does anyone mind if I now respond with, "Is that right...?"

Then, twenty years ago, as an employer, I said, "Given the attitudes with which young Australians are now being raised, we will have a crisis in employment one day."

I also said we would have "carnage" on our roads because of their selfish, rude and arrogant attitudes--but in those days we didn't know the term "road-rage".

Today we face a disastrous shortage of 'ordinary' working people-especially in the trades and manufacturing. Even than I knew that this day HAD to arrive, despite assurances from my new Australian associates that "Don't worry mate, THIS is Australia, we are different, we KNOW what we are doing".

(It almost appears that) half our young people, who WOULD HAVE been those 'workers' had they been properly educated and raised, are endlessly high on drugs or drunk every night and the other half are ferals who are on the dole and grossly uneducated. Does anyone mind if I now respond with, "Is that right...?"

Don't blame the politicians---blame the liberal thinkers who threw out discipline and 'old-fashioned' ideas such as personal responsibility and diligence.

It's been a great party, people. Party time is over and now it's time to pay. Except we don't have the dough. Tell me again, what was that you said about being "Different" and "special"?

Education is a nice safe target for any politician not in power, and this article follows the normal pattern. It is always possible to find something about education that isn't working, but this is just a way to avoid thinking through the real issues.

Shortly after WWII, "Made in Germany" and "Made in Japan" were bywords for "cheap". Spain was in the sixties little more than a cheap holiday destination. China, until quite recently, was a closed economy with little by way of international trade, now it is becoming a key market for both imports and exports.

These shifts happen all the time, and inevitably change the requirements for education. We trust our politicians to guide us through the various stages with the minimum of fuss, but unfortunately they tend to abdicate this responsibility in favour of short-termism. What, they should be asking, is Australia's role in the world economy over the next thirty to fifty years? What is it that we have that the world will continue to pay us for in the coming years?

Any answers on "what do we do about education" should follow the answers to the above. However, we all know it is not going to happen. Politicians think in terms of being elected or re-elected, just as business thinks in terms of how much profit it can squeeze from your and my pocket before the next balance sheet is due at the end of the next quarter.

There's another even more insidious side to this which is the myth that "the market" will solve the problem. The market is the problem.

I agree with Jenny that the New Apprenticeship scheme has failed. It has provided cheap labor for businesses which do not have a labor shortage and attempted to further devalue tradesperson wages by segmenting traditional trade apprenticeships into small certificate units.
Well the big end of town got what they desired in the short term - cheap trainee labor. It is industry and the Howard government's industrial reform agenda that is to blame for the lack of tradespeople. (Contrary to an earlier statement women are in the trades - my daughter is a petite, feminine 20yo 4th yr electrician.)
It is good to hear from Jenny Macklin for she is an asset to the Australian political scene.

Aka,you have no idea.I would prefer to pay a good sub-contractor $330.00 per day,rather than employ an apprentenice for a week on the same amount.There isn't the time or the money for small business on low margins to provide time for instruction.I don't think you people really get it!If a worker is injured in NSW the employer pays the premium and the total cost of the workers comp claim!This can send businesses broke.You can lose your own personal assets! Now unfair dismissal can have the same effect.Why train an apprentice in a dangerous occupation who is likely to be injured.How do you disprove a bad back?There are thousands of false claims.

Business can't just increase revenue on a whim like Govt increases taxes.They either perform or go broke.They provide the efficiency for Govt to collect more taxes.

If you still don't get it,go off to fairy land with Jenny and contemplate your navels.If the Labor Party think like her,they have no chance of winning the next three elections!

Arjay,
I suggest you check your facts for you are basing your arguements on rhetoric and urban myth. Your suggestion that I am in some sort of fairyland etc belies the fact that your comments are too often based on bs and spite. Workers need protection from dangerous work practices and I hope they are successful in getting 'Industrial Manslaughter' listed as a crime.
Intellectual arguement should promote thought, whereas your arguements simply reflect a rather twisted form of reality. I suggest you put your brain into gear before you post comment.
Aka

Aka,this is no urban myth.Just ring workcover and say you are an employer.Ask about the fact that an employer must pay the premium,but also must pay the full amount of the claim in the form of increased premiums over a three year period.It can be hundreds of thousands of dollars.Most employers in NSW don't know this because the Govt never bothered to tell them.How's that for Labor party honesty.Their own public service have blown work cover $2.5 billion into the red and they want private enterprise to pay for it.Most of the little darlings are out on stress leave.It is just another rort to extend their holidays.
Aka,am I making neural connections with your conscious ,thinking brain,or is left wing bubble wrap clouding your perceptions?

Getting a bit worked up there ARJAY.
Your attempts at insults do little to establish your credibility.

Notice that AKA could not refute one of my statements.Anger lacks credibility according to Aka.The business community has good reason to be furious.Bob Carr said he was being short changed by $3 billion out of a total budget of $40 billion pa.Now we have 340,000 public servants in NSW,of which 20,000 they admit to could be retrenched,but they can't because of unfair dismissal and consequent retrenchment payouts.At a conservative $50,000 pa per person this represents one billion dollars per year.Now we have a loss in workers comp of $672 million pa plus all the other excesses of this Govt ,make $3 billion differential between us and Queensland seem a piddling amount.Bob Carr signed off on the present agreement with open eyes that disadvantages NSW.Where has all the money gone Bob?
Where is Bob Carr's credibility?