I commend everyone to read the posts of Ruby and Pearl. They are the real outcomes of sex eduction based on the false mindset :"kids have no will power and are all going to do it anyway". Maybe kids are better than they think.

I recall a doctor sent to address soldiers in camp in my home town reported as ending his lecture with the words: "My advice to you is to keep your pay in your pocket and your penis in your pants".

There were references in previous posts to an article (Sydney Morning Herald?), "Condoms the big winner against AIDS, study finds", as well as something that may have been said or postered (not published) in the 12th Conference on Retroviruses. There's a recent Washington Post article by David Brown, entitled "Uganda's AIDS Decline Attributed to Deaths," that seems to cite the same people from Columbia University:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48464-2005Feb23.html

But I note that the findings are __unpublished__ from a study that __isn't over yet__:

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/sph/popfam/rp/uganda.html

There are, however, other reports that speaks well of the ABC program in Uganda. For example, a report entitled "What Happened in Uganda?" by Dr. Edward C. Green et al, from Harvard University:

http://www.usaid.gov/pop_health/aids/Countries/africa/uganda_report.pdf

which maintains the following:

- Behavior change communication (BCC) reached both general populations and key target groups.
- "Condom social marketing has played a key but evidently not the major role."
- "The most important determinant of the reduction in HIV incidence in Uganda appears to be a decrease in multiple sexual partnerships and networks."
- "the experience there and in other countries that have achieved some success suggests that a comprehensive behavior change-based strategy, ideally involving high level political commitment and a diverse spectrum of community-based participation, may be the most effective prevention approach."

Can't ignore that.

Aslan's last post, in a funny way, completes the circle. S/he disputes the fact that the world is overpopulated. Other posters say that it is. Brian Harradine's article promotes abstinence amongst young people. But dramatic population growth occurs where young people are reproducing at the rate of knots - usually in developing countries. Advanced industrial countries such as Germany, Italy and Australia see reproduction either stagnating or going backwards.

If young people today uniformly took up Harradine's ideas, population growth in this country would slow up even further. If they uniformly rejected his ideas then STDs would increase. He and his supporters are in a no-win situation.

Perhaps the moral of the story is not to base sexual health policy on unbending morals but to be more sensible about it - such as Australia's AIDS policy which, though not as successful as one would like, at least spared us some of the horrors affecting other countries.

DavidJS,

You have clearly misunderstood what I and Harradine are saying. We are not saying that teenagers should abstain from sex for eternity. We are saying that they should abstain from sex before they enter into a committed stable relationship (preferably marriage), then they can go for it hammer and tongs and have as many kids as they like with the knowledge that they are providing the best possible environment for those children.

And the notion that STDs will/has increased is not merely Harradine's idea - it is a demonstrable fact - despite almost 30 years of 'modern' sex 'education'.

AK

THE REALLY BIG QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN LEFT UNANSWERED.
DOES ABSTINENCE MAKE THE HEART GROW FONDER?
CAN WE BE FOUND GUILITY IN ABSTINENTIA?

Well no one told me about her....
It's too late to say I'm sorry
How should I know
Why should I care?

But she's not there!

NAME THE GROUP AND FILL IN THE MISSING LYRICS

I stayed out of this bun fight for the simple reason is to advocate the obvious is really to simple for words.

However, as an ex-teenager whose parents promoted the idea of abstinence (oh mum - hate to tell you - your words fell on the deaf ears (which flanked a healthy, lustful mind))
I might have been in a dilemna when my own daughters arrived at that moment in time when urges tend to overcome common sense. Rightly or wrongly - hypocritically for sure - I did the Dad thing. They probably anticipated my response and reasoning and went and got contraceptives anyway. Ultimately my words fell on ears similar to mine own at their age - deaf to the warnings (oh our children are out parents revenge on us).

Advocate all we want - the important thing in a parent-child relationship is for the parent to be an inextinguishable source of unending love to their children. Ultimately, it is far more important that we teach our children to be proud of who they are and any abstinence to be exercised to be from a sense of self esteem (waiting for the (or a) right person) rather than seeking solace and acceptance in the compromise of personal values.

That my daughters have the strength of character to decide for themselves is greater value to me and will be to them as they go through life than some misplaced sense of denial, guilt, shame or other negative hangup dumped on them by unwarranted criticism for their choices (be they good or bad).