Jane,

I don't loathe gays. I pity them. They are trapped in a self-destructive lifestyle. It is the lifestyle, the behaviour I detest.

It is not a matter of homosexuals being "not as nice or as sane and healthy as heterosexuals" - it is a matter of that universal principle known as "cause and effect".

Homosexuals behave in a certain way. That behaviour has consequences. You can vote away laws and silence dissenting voices but you can't vote away the natural consequences of your actions.

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If a person engages in a promiscuous lifestyle such as homosexuality then that person will inevitably feel the pain and envy of rejection and betrayal, become insecure and will often resort to violence and abuse in form of "crimes of passion" or suicide.

If a person becomes involved with a community that endorses and celebrates regular drug taking and heavy drinking, then it should be no surprise that drug abuse and alcoholism will result.

Given the above factors, we should not be surprised to find that homosexuals die 20 years younger than heterosexuals (excluding AIDS), alone and in a great deal of pain, often after experiencing a prolonged painful illness.

Our children need to know this. They have a right to know ALL the facts. We have a duty of care to tell them.

The problem for Jane and homosexual activists is that this information stands against their political and social agenda.

Good on you JaneRR,

I was a bit puzzled by Aslan referencing those particular studies. There have been hundreds of studies into people beating their kids, doesn't mean that most people beat their kids. Same with cruelty to animals, most people aren't.

Aslan, I wonder if your attitude would change if your child approached you and told you they're gay? How would you treat them and how would you want others to treat them?

I do agree with some of what you say. I think that our kids should be aware that homosexuality exists and that we should all be tolerant of gay people. I don't think it should be "promoted" as such (not that I know it is being promoted). The important thing is that if a child is gay, they are aware that they are not alone and that they are not evil, perverted, or mentally ill and that they are first and foremost a human being.

The emergence of our sexuality can be a confusing and frightening time. It's difficult to imagine what it must be like to realize you're different, especially at an age where sameness is so important. It is also not good enough to condem violence against homosexuals on one hand and promote the idea that they are immoral, unnatural, God hates them and they're going to hell on the other. There has never been a more false saying than the old "sticks & stones may break my bones...."

Aslan, I am pleased that you can laugh. I hope it is not the nasty type of laughter that comes from splenetic frustration. How sad though that later in the post your intolerance becomes apparent.

Do you not see that your response is convincing evidence that you are an intolerant bigot? I will shut up when I get bored with pointing out how irrational and ignorant you are.

Evidence for my tolerance of your intolerance is that I am not attempting to present you as part of an unacceptable group. It would be intolerant of me to seek out research evidence that demonstrates a positive correlation between Christianity and violence, and then say that being Christian causes violence.

Your dubious ‘paper’ was not ‘merely a summary’ of the available research. It drew spurious conclusions based on the dodgy data. Not only are you ignorant of the purpose and use of the DSM and the meaning of basic statistics but you appear not to understand the word ‘scientific’.

Do some research on these topics,use your capacity for rational thinking rather than indulging your emotional responses and worrying about the heinous things that homosexuals and 'deviant' heterosexuals do with their private bits.

The history of the Christian Church is an area you really should research. It is an appalling record indeed and is a warning for what could happen if we don’t keep a watch on you and point out, as Jane has done, when you transgress the bounds of decency.

You christians look to a book (which apparently is not all that dependable since parts have been mis-translated) rather than reason for your morals and ethics and this is the thin edge of the wedge that we ‘freedom loving people’ really need to worry about.

David, if God has been mis-translated, perhaps 'he' (I am sure that your God is male) has also been quoted out of context?

I have not followed this thread very closely but from what I have seen it is somewhat ironic that christians get so upset about brainwashing of children to promote a particular belief structure or lifestyle. Has anybody else noticed that there seem to be a lot of church run schools around now days? Are they really not doing anything to promote the christian world view?

Maybe our sons would be better off learning about healthy touch - last time I checked holding hands was in that category although not generally done by heterosexual males in our society (probably to our overall detriment). Some people appear to have trouble differentiating between social contact and sexual activity - kind of unhealthy and deviant.

Aslan The list of sexual practices you supplied, that apparently are indulged in by homosexuals is not convincing evidence that this behaviour is *caused* by homosexuality. Heterosexual people also indulge in all sorts of unhealthy and weird practices. What causes their deviance?

I agree that the proportion of homosexuals who indulge in problematic behaviours is greater than the proportion of heterosexuals who indulge, but it is not rational or scientific to conclude that homosexuality causes ‘deviance'.

If homosexuality caused deviance then all homosexuals would be ‘deviant’ (and I do not believe that this is the case) and no non-homosexuals would be deviant.

I did provide an explanation of why homosexuality is a risk factor for problematic behaviours. Let me repeat it.

Homosexuals are stigmatised; many are alienated by the disdain and criticism that is so louldly voiced by people such as yourself. This can lead to a lack of self-esteem and self-respect. People who feel alientated and lack self-esteem react in negative ways. Sometimes they react in ways that are caluclated to be ‘in your face’ and to offend staights such as yourself.

Furthermore, there is a role that 'homosexuals' are expected to play. Many of them follow this role because it is so clearly expected of them, by people like you as well as the militant gay lobby that quite understandably reacts to unfair vilification (by people such as yourself) with provocative statements and behaviour.

However,with the increasing level of acceptance and support for their lifestlye, there are more and more 'good' role models for young homosexuals. Therefore, in the future, we can expect to see the proportion of homosexuals following what you would call ‘decent’ lifestyles increase.

Unless of course, for you, the missionary position with a quick 7 minute wham bam thank-you mam - is the only sort of sex that is ‘decent’

Kenny,

Jane has not shown anything to be discredited. She has merely stated an assertion - one with no substance.

When are you people going to realise that asserting something to be true, doesn't make it true.

If you think I have fabricated or misrepresented the author's research then I challenge you to show me where and how! Good luck.

BTW, evolution did not originate with Chuck Darwin. Evolutionary ideas can be traced as far back as Thales of Miletus (640-546 BC), so your dismissal of racism as a consequence of evolution fails.

Bozzie,

if my son told me he was gay my attitude would not change. I would still love him, but I would tell him the truth about the self-destructive nature of homosexuality. Indeed, I tell him the truth precisely because I love him and want to see him spared from a great deal of physical and emotion pain and an early death.

Mollydukes,

bigot, n. "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

I am intolerant of homosexuality but not of homosexuals. I can tolerate you having a differing opinion. However, I will not tolerate homosexuality being presented in a positive light to children - especially at tax payers expense!

You are intolerant of Christians and call them names. You are intolerant of those who disagree with you. You demand that your view be taught to children.

So who's really the intolerant bigot?

Regarding your assertions about my understanding of science and Christianity, you are quite wrong. I have advanced degrees in both science and Christianity (including the history of science and history of Christianity) and will gladly debate you on any of these topics.

Why don't you put up an argument (for a change) instead of just making wild unsubstantiated assertions? Come on - stop being a wimp and present a real argument!

Just what do you really know about the history of the Christian church? Precious little I suspect...