The poor state of the British (and Australian) education systems ensure that although the kids can say the words, they sure as s#@* can't spell 'em.

Col, I never have regarded my posts as "sacrosanct". That's your piffle projected onto me. I wouldn't post here if I couldn't put up with responses. I'm not really sure now whether actually understand the point I'm making. I thought it was a simple one. That is, if Deane laments declining moral standards of children in Britain he must consider the society they were born and brought up in. The time for blaming "socialism" Wilson, Callaghan et al is long gone. Or will we still be blaming the malign influence of 60s and 70s "socialism" in 2060?

Similar garbage is trotted out by Brendan Nelson when he refers to teaching standards. "Political correctness" is a term used like so much confetti. Teachers' unions are blamed. Everyone it seems except his own incompetent government which underfunds already underfunded schools and then whinges about poor educational outcomes.

DavidJS "Everyone it seems except his own incompetent government which underfunds already underfunded schools and then whinges about poor educational outcomes."

Lets see - Education Budgets - Managed by State Governments...

State Governments, ironically controlled by Labor

Discipline and Testing (quality performance) of schools progressively eroded by successive State Labor governments.

Parental Discipline underminded by fairy-floss socialist policies of childrens so called rights etc.

Keep it up and I can keep it up too.

Make you point and I am happy to counter it.

Socialism is the "methodone" which replaced the "opiate" of religion (to extend Marx)- replace one dependency with another.

In the real world, we are individually "tested" daily in our life roles.
We all individually fail at some time - and such failures are as valuable a source of personal development as a success.

"Individuals" are the source of all human output, excellence and performance. They operate best when left to think and develop independently / individually (not constrained by fatuous notions of co-dependence).

To function best as an individual requires "self discipline", focus and commitment.

"Self discipline" is developed from extention to the fundamental education which schools are supposed to provide but which is disrupted by weakwilled teachers who indulgence those who would sooner disrupt the education flow with "potty mouth" outbursts and expletives.
Deny children their "disciplined education", we end up with lazy minded morons who think the world is their birth right and society will provide for their every indulgence.
Those morons will whine and moan about the successes of those who did learn that "discipline of self" comes from discipline in class.
Unfortunately - those same morons will one day grow up to vote and vote labor - the party of co-dependence, excuse and failure.

DavidJS; I think you'll find that the shocking standard of education in Britain and Australia has much more to do with the ideologies of state Labor governments and left wing teacher unions than it does with federal funding levels.
Isn't education funding primarily a state responsibility? The thing that amazes me is that our kids education runs a very poor second behind proping up stupid and demonstrably second-rate standards and ideologies and federal government bashing. If you were fair dinkum you'd acknowledge that our education standards are falling and try to help fix the problem instead of blaming society. What a cop-out.
Your assertion that the problems in education can be placed at the feet of a free-market economy is ludicrous. Especially when it's the very people you don't blame (the lefties, correctoids etc) that have been in control of education for many years.

The Commonwealth has funding allocations and guidelines for schools including private schools:

http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/programmes_funding/forms_guidelines/quadguide/schools_quadrennial_administrative_guidelines_2001_2004.htm

State governments administer school education and provide their own funding. State governments are run by right-wing ALP politicians - not so-called socialists. Even when there is a left-wing Education Minister such as Carmel Tebbutt in NSW (and she ain't that left), there is no guarantee of a "socialist" agenda influencing educational outcomes or programs. Indeed, Tebbutt removed an anti-homophobia program recently from NSW schools at the behest of the Murdoch press. Moreover, state governments have been in the hands of the Coalition in the recent past - certainly more recently than the freewheeling 60s and 70s. Greiner in NSW and Kennett in Victoria come to mind.

Deane is talking about Britain. Britain had a conservative government from 1979 to 1997. After that it has had a right-wing Labour Government. Local government in Britain has been mainly either Labour, Liberal or Conservative. It has never been Marxist.

Co-dependency? How about the co-dependency of private schools, including some of the wealthiest in the country, on taxpayer funding?

Blame it on society? Read Deane again and you'll find he says precisely that. Are people agreeing with the author here or disagreeing? And he also says there is a need for leadership from government (or is that just the author revealling his "co-dependence"?).

Finally, if you think left-wing teachers are the problem, perhaps it might be a good idea to pay right-wing wages.

Go DavidJS!
Great posts and you know your facts.
The Federal Govt is destroying public schools, not only via funding but via the New Schools program that deregulated the opening of private schools, so that non-viable tiny private schools can now get big bucks (millions, in some cases) and drain kids from what were viable public schools, so that we now have many more small, not very good, struggling schools, both public and private.
The NSW govt can't help close the funding gap between private and public schools thanks to another Liberal party ideologue, Terry Metherell, who enshrined in legislation that for every dollar going to a public school, 25cents must go to a private one. Every time they increase funding to public schools, the private schools get a windfall too. Only the Feds can do it and they give 70% of their funds to private schools, and are taking away public school kids opportunities because they want to break a union. There's good values for you.....
Very, very soon with falling birthrates we will have to start closing schools, and the only ones we can close are the only ones open to all. Yep, you guessed it, public schools. So, if you're contemplating having kids, save your money, because you ain't going to have any choice. You are going to have to send your kids to a private school, and pay fees. heaven help you if the private school nearest you doesn't want your kid....or you can't afford the fees. Gee, I guess if we want to stay a first world country and have an educated population, we'll just have to re-invent compulsory education and public schools again. What a waste of time!