Dalma, verbally bashing 'new australians' would fade just like the peckings of a new chook in the pen :) but then, thats because that new chook is not gonna take over. Various other groups DO want to re-shape/takeover, but its not explicit or even at the forefront of their thinking when they cannot 'see' it as a serious possibility.

But once they realize that controlling just ONE seat can give incredible deal making power, viola.. we have an Islamic political party....
We don't have an Italian,Greek,Irish,Polish,Maltese or German one hmmmmmm (perhaps they are comfortable with a Judao Christian flavor in this country ?)

XENA I did my bit :) now its ur turn. I approached 3 generations of females (and one male elder, a secondary teacher) in our fellowship on the gist of your 'verses' (1 Cor 11) and found interesting results. The older woman, found it kind of a non issue, more of 'what's the fuss about', didn't get much from her. Then a 30 something middle class type married lady, who was quite agreeable that the male has the family headship, and that symbolic things which show this relationship were fine .. her comment "after all we are all under God" was very spot on, and she had no trouble seeing that a man fulfilling his side, will never be a problem for a woman doing her bit.

Finally a teenager.. but I only had a moment with her, "How would u feel if you were told you can't play that, ur a girl" (soccer with the guys) .. hehe.. she suddenly got all 'Xena like' and said "I'll play what I WANT.. grrr". So, I told her have a read of 1 cor 11 and we can discuss it further. Of course, there is nothing unbiblical about girls playing soccer with guys, its just plain dangerous. (beats chest..thump thump)

and hey.. what is this 'Your an easy target' stuff ? *curious look*
Believe it or not, I come here to try to make a difference... so if that makes me a target.. no matter.. *smiles*

Oh for crying out loud, must everything be as D & M and cop a bible passage a mile long to justify each poster's corner? Everything I've read (from Australian Muslim women) is that THEY choose to wear the veil, to liken it to a women must cover their head as men see the covering up of their hair as a vaginal extension is putting a lot of Sigmund Freud into where he don't belong. Many a devout Catholic girlie wore a crucifix around her neck as a symbol of their devoutness to their religion and were horrified that no one outside their religion understood. Jews have also been vilified over (and over) the way they insist on wearing their headgear (real or removable) in the past. Who does want to throw the first stone at anyone's headgear beside's Bronnie's? What is sitting on top of her head is just as awful as what comes out of her mouth. Are we so paranoid that we think they've got bombs swaddled under their burqas? Or are we just suffering from a bad case of xenaphobia (excuse me Xena, but you know what I mean!).

To the poster re Nuns - spot on!

Di - love your post. All we are hearing is the xenophobic rants of fearful aging white men. I only made the bible quotes 'cos of everyone carping on about how muslim women are forced to cover their heads by the koran - when it wasn't so long ago that christian women were ordered to cover-up. My muslim friends are of Turkish background BTW and some wear a hijab and some don't. As has been stated - it is their CHOICE. Just as I choose to wear body piercings and tatts - these bring me closer to my inner goddess ;-)

No-one was having a problem with these CHOICES until Bad-hair Bronny jumped in with her measly two cents worth.

BD -don't care wot your christian girlies and laaadies have to say - you don't seem to understand that chirstianity has been just as repressive of women in the past as a lot of Islam has been. It appears that many muslim posters are trying to move into the 21st century - why don't you give a go as well?

And furthermore, while I am not all that interested in what BD's girlies and laaadies have to say I am open to opinions from christian women, just as I am interested in opinions from muslim women - wish there were more of both - fed up with the biblical nagging from certain male christians.

Sorry Xena, am only a woman not a Christian woman.
I don't like the hijab personally either, and I would furiously object to any person of any religion refusing to shake my hand or make eye contact. That is insulting, in anyone's language. The burqa literally makes me feel dizzy with claustrophobia.

However, I would not ban any of them, particularly not in schools. If feminism is about anything it is about women having the right to decide their own destinies, no matter how much we might disagree with them, or even see them as colluding in their own oppression. I fully support arguing with the wearer and challenging her logic, but insisting she remove it is just another form of bullying.

If we believe women and girls have the right to control their own bodies and what they dress them in, we must be consistent about it. We can't say, yeah, sure wear what you like as long as its what we approve of. If we do that, then we are simply mirroring the very things in Islam we say we disagree with.

I think that Bronwyn Bishop is just running with the pack for publicity's sake. I think that she should do something more constructive like encouraging school-age youngsters to wear hats and grow their hair.

The issue here (wearing the hijabs) is more about cultural supremacism. The Muslim women supposedly (more like the jealous,controlling men of Muslim) believe that to hide their face is a better than sharing their lovely smiles and pretty faces.

In Australian culture we have an old belief that stems from the great depression of the 30's. It is an expression of our ideals of equality, openness, mateship and fairness. Put simply, we nod and smile at people as a greeting. No matter how broke or rolled-over you are most older Australians believe that you can always -- spare a smile, shed a tear and lend a hand. No matter how well off you are you can always spare a smile etc.

I think this culture is far superior to hiding away beauty and expression as if it is goods and chattel. With respect, and even considering the religious significance of covering ones face ( I am an infidel), I think that there is something very snobbish about wearing the hijab (and something very stupid about not wearing a hat).

Having said this, I think that it is wrong of Ms Bishop and all the other anti-other-than-my-religion provokers to think that they have the right to impose their cultural mores onto another culture.