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The Forum > Article Comments > Beyond borders: why the Ukraine conflict matters to America > Comments

Beyond borders: why the Ukraine conflict matters to America : Comments

By Jeffrey Roth, published 4/3/2024

Here is where the long view becomes crucial. Our adversaries are strategically vying for control of a region that grows more critical daily – the Arctic.

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Fester: Remember the effective US definition of "democracy" in other countries. ie When governments are largely subservient and obedient to directions from Washington. They organised a coup in 2014 to install a pro US and anti Russian leadership in Ukraine. Then in 2019, Zelensky was elected with a large majority in platform of arranging peace in Eastern Ukraine after Poroshenko did not deliver on same promise. Since then, he has done exact opposite on behalf of his largely Jewish Western handlers. Will obviously be no democratic elections in Ukraine until war ends. Also, Zelensky has signed decree that no peace negotiations will be held while Putin remains in power. So Zelensky needs to be deposed before they can start. Then note how US officials often claim that elections, etc are undemocratic or a sham when results are against what they want. Such as the referendums in former Ukrainian territories where residents have voted very strongly in favour of becoming part of Russia rather than being ruled by the very anti ethnic Russian government in Kiev.
Posted by mox, Friday, 8 March 2024 9:58:12 AM
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From his foregoing comments and attitude, appears that Banjo Patterson is a classic example if the quote "Illiteracy in the 21st Century is not people who cannot read or write. It is those who resist unlearning lies they have been brainwashed to believe." He has obviously become effectively brainwashed by what he thinks is "reliable media" to the extent that does not even want to look at /listen to, let alone consider alternative viewpoints. Note regarding three alternative news sites I suggested he properly check out from a start. He just quotes uncomplimentary reviews of them which were largely predictable considering the sources. Now important question is "Has he looked at and considered news and views posted on these sites over a period of time? I doubt it.
Posted by mox, Friday, 8 March 2024 10:31:37 AM
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Hi Mox,

You need to go back a bit further. Hitler and Stalin had a pact in which they each took half of Poland. After WW2 the defeated axis nations became prosperous democracies, whereas the nations occupied by the Soviet Union became vassal states controlled from the Kremlin: If one nation chose to pursue its own socialism the Russian army was ready to roll in and restore orthodoxy (remember the Prague spring?). That is now happening in Ukraine, except this time the free world is helping Ukrainians fight for their freedom instead of looking on in despair.

There are very good reasons why ex Soviet states do not want a bar of Russian authoritarianism. The Museum of Communism in Prague describes life in a vassal state: Not at all like post war Japan.
Posted by Fester, Friday, 8 March 2024 11:21:43 PM
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.

Dear mox,

.

That’s OK. Don’t worry, it’s not your fault, mox, if there’s no longer any independent media in Russia. That’s Putin’s doing. He’s the narcissistic “Capo Dei Capi” dictator. Not you.

I’m sure you’re right. There’s no harm in reading all the propaganda and misinformation the pro-Kremlin media churn out these days. So long as you don’t believe any of it, that’s the main thing. If you do that, you’ll be OK.

Just checking and cross-checking the facts is time-consuming. I don’t have the time to do much else and I don’t need anybody to tell me how or what to think. There are very few people whose opinions I value and respect anyway.

I nevertheless try to keep an open mind and listen to other people’s points of view before forming my own opinion.

Sometimes I get it wrong, but my philosophy has always been that I would prefer to be hanged for my own mistakes than for the mistakes of someone else.

.


Dear Fester,

.

Excellent comments and observations. Very interesting indeed.

I’ll keep that in mind.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 9 March 2024 1:02:01 AM
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Banjo Patterson especially. Remember that with a range of media organisations with differing ownerships, editorial policy preferences and resources help keep each other more honest. Including that some often publish articles followed by disclaimer such as "This is the opinion of the author and not of our organisation." Also, even articles regarded as propaganda you oppose sometimes draw attention to important indisputable facts. Re accusations that there is no "independent" media in Russian Federation, the large Russia Today organisation founded in 2005 under present Editor in Chief Margarita Simonyan is apparently financed by the Russian government. In some ways this is an advantage, being not dependent on advertisers and paywalls for revenue. Also, they seem much less concerned than some other organisations about copyright regarding others reproducing their material. Including after some articles "You can share this on social media." Then remember a lot of news from around the world is at least partly straightforward and syndicated. Seems rt dot com is one of the best sites for checking daily headlines on what is going on around the world. Then can look further both on it and elsewhere on anything of particular interest. Are sometimes articles they regard as newsworthy to Russian or international audiences from Australia that are basically similar to those from our local news sources. Seems general principle is if you see an article that looks like containing biased propaganda, good to check what likely sources of opposing views have to say. eg If interested in a topic regarding Iran and mainstream news regarding it appears what the US "Deep State" would like believed, check version on Iranian news site. Now the latest Wikileaks type exposure regarding Ukrainian war. RT recently aired a recording of senior German officials discussing how they could possibly supply missiles Ukrainians could use against targets in Russia without being implicated themselves. Then among stuff on Facebook page of Margarita Simonyan. (With name also printed in Russian alphabet in brackets). Comment to effect that Germans seemed mainly interested in how she came to get it. Not likely results of its embarrassing revelations.
Posted by mox, Saturday, 9 March 2024 12:20:18 PM
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Hi Mox,

You would do well to explore the past a little. On the matter of the independence of western journalists, of note is Gareth Jones, who exposed the Holodomor, Stalin's Holocaust against Ukrainians. At the time his expose was challenged as exaggerated and sensationalist, most notably by Pulitzer Prize recipient Walter Duranty.

Journalists sympathetic to Russia's invasion are not confined to Russian borders, but critics can only express their views elsewhere.

https://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/soviet_articles.htm
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 9 March 2024 6:17:30 PM
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