The Australian government's belief that climate change is an existential crisis and, at the same, time having a huge immigration fuelled population growth policy must surely be contradictory. It is no wonder people remain skeptical

Irrelevant!

Dead right, watersnake. Not only do they bring in more unnecessary people while dole bludgers make up a number similar to the job vacancies, some wack job has come up with an idea to have more public holidays in the name of non-Christian immigrants who want to live here, but who want to keep up the mumbo jumbo of countries that couldn't support them, and get a holiday to do it.

WTF?

Here are some of the OLO comments from climate change deniers that were posted on one of my threads.

• All climate predictions have been rubbish

• At the time it was made it was a stab in the dark.

• Look how Covid turned out to be a minor inconvenience

• In the early 70s I remember a book in the school library saying that by 2000 the world would be out of oil (used to devalue scientific predictions)

• Predictions are much easier when you go backwards.

• Clearly you have little experience in reading forecasts, like prospectuses for projects like Sun Cable

• My take on the Exxon Mobil attack is that it reflects the desperation of the renewable energy industry

• Because Elliot wave theory is a poor tool for stock market investment the Exxon scientists just got lucky (summary not a direct quote).

• Either they knew about the cycle and pretended they forecast it, or they just presumed they knew why the temperature rose, and struck it lucky.

• how can we ascertain that these journalists were neutral or that these documents were not forged and recently planted there for them to find?

• any post-Thatcher research or measurements on this topic are inadmissible.

• Margaret Thatcher (by no means a "Lefty") needed scientists to "discover" global-warming so she could break the coal-miners unions (and introduce nuclear-power instead).

It will be interesting to see what further illogical nonsense the deniers can come up with.

When all this 'ExxonKnew' rubbish was first touted, various US states saw some easy money to be made by suing Exxon for knowingly causing environmental damage even though they were aware their product would cause AGW.

Suffice to saw all those law suits failed dramatically. Why? Well when you get past the hype upon which this thread's article is based, you find that Exxon didn't know. All the quotes that the hype is based on weren't Exxon saying these things would happen, just that these things (ie warming) were one of several possibilities.

They didn't make these supposedly suppressed predictions. They covered all angles as any good analysis should. But the alarmists have no understanding of covering all possibilities, since the 'settled science' permits only one viewpoint.

WTF?

mhaze states: "They didn't make these supposedly suppressed predictions. "

This of course is a nonsense :

analysis shows that, in private and academic circles since the late 1970s and early 1980s, ExxonMobil scientists

(i) accurately projected and skillfully modeled global warming due to fossil fuel burning;

(ii) correctly dismissed the possibility of a coming ice age;

(iii) accurately predicted when human-caused global warming would first be detected; and

(iv) reasonably estimated how much CO2 would lead to dangerous warming. Yet, whereas academic and government scientists worked to communicate what they knew to the public, ExxonMobil worked to deny it.

Exxon scientists did make the predictions and that information is now out in the public domain.

It is up to you now mhaze (as you have made the claim) to indicate which Exxon evaluated documentation shows otherwise.

It's not just fossil fuel companies that hide known facts for reasons of profit margins but governments as well. With royalties front and centre in many of their climate harming trade decisions.

And here for Australia, coal is king. We could have and should have embraced exclusively public nuclear energy some time ago. And simply allowed the coal producers to market their entire coal production offshore. Until carbon tariffs forced the cession of that trade.

Had we done that, today energy prices as reticulated energy could be as low or lower than 3 cents PKWH. With now bug free MSR thorium as the principal source of carbon free dispatchable energy.

Moreover, the technology can be tasked with burning problematic nuclear waste. Nuclear waste we would be paid annual millions to accept. And then used as free mostly unspent fuel to generate electricity that could cost less than a penny PKWH.

Governments/political hypocrites/villains are just as bad or worse than Exxon with their climate harming policies and trade deals.

Simply put, the fossil fuels we export to the world could be creating as much as 40% of all carbon emissions. Burning less coal at home is worth SFA when we are producing less than 1.4% of international carbon emissions anyway.

And the song and dance we make about that unmitigated obscene hypocrisy of the first water, as we continue to pour our fossil fuels to the world in maximum amounts and export effort.

MSR thorium is the mother of miracle cancer cure bismuth 213. And for us, make us the premier medical tourist destination in the world. And an energy exporting superpower! Making annual trillions, plural, in export incomes.

All virtually pissed against the wall by conflicted, tame or, I believe, bought and paid for, pollies.

If there's another more logical and rational explanation it escapes me!
Alan B.

WTF?

I made a mistake when I said public domain.

I was trying to indicate that the information is now available to the general public.

Forget climate change and just focus on the very best economic outcome and climate change will become a non-issue or simply take care of itself. As we earn annual trillions plural, with the right policy paradigms enacted by folk not in the pockets of fossil fuel companies. And if the cap fits?

Simply put, the 12 thousand coal mining jobs could be replaced in other mining jobs and manufacturing industries, as could current export revenues, and then some!

It's the economy, Stupid.
Alan B.

WTF?

Alan B states: " Forget climate change and just focus on the very best economic outcome."

That's the whole point: Exxon did forget about climate change (in the sense that they downplayed their role in it) for THEIR very best economic outcome.

Along the way they rusted on 50 years worth of science deniers.

I wouldn't say Exxon are good guys. But they're not as bad as the UN. Hiding behind UN Net Zero, Albanese Labor can run 43% "emissions reduction" on their left hand, extreme population growth on their right. As Watersnake more or less points out.

Arguing amongst ourselves about who pulled the plug out of the bottom of the boat, or who knew about it, is time wasting.
We must focus our efforts on stopping the water coming in, and do it soon, or the boat will sink, and we will drown.
What's done is done. Now we must try to remedy the situation.
And as we do this, we should retain as much as possible of the life we are used to.
We don't want to live in a cave, and cook over a smoky fire do we?
I think the human race can adapt where necessary, and live a life which is quietly rewarding.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=22311#388784

You haven't been here long if you think logic has much to do with the posting here about climate change. They didn't dig themselves into this using logic, they won't dig themselves out either. I mean Gravity itself is just a Theory... right Ignoring it can be disastrous, like ignoring climate change.

its an ideological opposition that has nothing to do with the existential danger we face and the likely collapse of civilization.

Mum…if ya want more waffles, there on special down at the OLO Store.

Floods…Climate change.
Droughts…Climate change.
Bush fires….Climate change.
Cyclones….Climate change.
Pollution…Climate change.
Sea water…Climate change.
Over population….Climate change.
Price of onions…Climate change.
Anthony Albatross….Climate change.
New baby…Climate change.
The trains late…Climate change.

Climate Change deniers are not deniers of changing climate.. They're seriously questioning the methods proposed by the bandwagon of academic "experts" which have more to do with keeping the funding flowing than protecting the Planet.
The ONLY way to stop the present rate of pollution is to stop the rate of humans breeding !
And, curb the demands of the stupid in their quest for "more" frivolous commodities & just as frivolous life style.
A good comparison in Australia for this idiocy is the advertising industry.

Dear Indyvidual,

Thanks, these could have been my own words but you were first of course!

May I add that encouraging the climate-hysteria is not only for funds, but even more so for power and following, as well as revenge over those who do not agree to be influenced and follow.

"I mean Gravity itself is just a Theory... right"

So if one theory is right, all theories must be right....right?

Pretty dumb assertion but those pushing Lysenkoism will be pleased.

Each theory has to be assessed on its own merits, although many find that too hard.

We've been swamped by theories & starved of facts, courtesy of the Woke !

How many years have Australians of all stripes been happy to blame, without any scientific evidence, 'immigrants' &/or 'population growth' for environmental 'hygiene' issues?

Exxon, with Chevron, was spawned by Standard Oil founded by JDR and owned long term by the Rockefeller family (divested several years ago); the latter had also supported the German Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes into eugenics between the wars.

Seems round the time that Exxon and others knew about carbon and global warming (Peabody engineers knew in '60s?), Rockefeller Bros. supported and seeded, as did the Ford and Carnegie Foundations, ZPG Zero Population Growth (based on the Club of Rome 'limits to growth' PR constructs) with Paul 'Population Bomb' Ehrlich & white nationalist John 'passive eugenics' Tanton.

Claiming first fertility, then immigration led to 'population growth' impairing the environment, but ignoring climate science; as like now fertility rates had slowed, stagnating and many nations in decline (vs. 'global south' which is now following the same decline).

The same movement, now known in US as 'Tanton Network', support old white Australia policy, immigration restrictions, Brexit, Trump etc.; also used as a counter or foil by fossil fueled libertarians a la Koch with both networks sharing donors in the US.

Australians and governments following and being informed by this movement have gaslit science and have delayed transition from fossil fuels for a generation; well done Australia.

Steve S: A good example of the 'libertarian trap' and a long game...

'I wouldn't say Exxon are good guys. But they're not as bad as the UN. Hiding behind UN Net Zero, Albanese Labor can run 43% "emissions reduction" on their left hand, extreme population growth on their right. As Watersnake more or less points out.'

In fact the same? Former owners of Exxon i.e. Rockefellers gifted the UN NY real estate to build UN headquarters, and many suggest that they were given influence over the 'Sustainable' and 'Population' divisions.

Would explain how we came to have a Minister for Sustainable Population under Gillard government, under influence of Labor insiders?

Labor are beginning to realise that a Nation can not be run by idealism & the harsh reality is already dictating to resort to proven energy via coal !
I watched 'Chasing the Coral" which is homing in on climate change & its rising temperatures.
In one area of the reef they showed coral dying & dead but not very far away they showed a pristine reef scene 'not yet impacted by climate change'.
Wouldn't sea surface temperature be the same in a wider area ? To my thinking the demise of coral is far more due to poor water quality than temperature. Some areas where the pollutant carrying currents by-pass coral, the marine environment is still vibrant apart from the absence of fish due to overfishing by recreational fishers & to some rule disregarding commercial fishers.
Of course all the travelling industries are contributing to pollution which helps raise temperatures but the primary cause of the destruction of the environment are ordinary, stupidly selfish people & the global warming scientists are in symbiosis with them !