The media is the problem, not the solution .The terrorism of equality and its rainbow flag of intolerance has an urgent need to be lowered and burnt.

Dan

The separation of church and state is a cornerstone of our democratic society. The writer believes Christians must fight a "holy war" against the evils of Secularism in society, what evils? The fact we enjoy tolerance from religious intolerance and bigotry is a good thing, lets keep it that way.

As long as unelected persons claim to know the will of God and speak for him with their only authority, a 2,000 year book, this trend will continue as former Christians seek the truth rather than faith based myth and legend.

Moreover, when all one has is faith rather than solid facts one can prove! Then the supplicant must hold open in their mind that the opposite could also be true!

I think the task for Christianity is to seek out the truth and seek to serve rather than "rule"!

That for mine means a return to pre Constantine esoteric Christianity and the Christianity that then prevailed.

No minister is a judge to decide what is sin. Sin in its original meaning meant to merely miss the mark. And our mistakes are how we learn and progress!

And the sexuality one is born with is how God created him or her or others. And not via choice! No hetrosexual I know would choose to be gay! [Nor I, unless a gun was held to my head!]

No Christian can say with Absolute authority/certainty that this is not so. Whereas medical science can and part of the reason why the Church in its current intolerant and willfully blind form is dying!

If one must believe something then that something is the mighty irrefutable truth. And part of that truth is, the last thing on most folks minds is the (Paganized) Church and its dying writhing.

What is on most folks minds is the economy the cost of energy and what a do nothing real Government intends to do about it? Perhaps we can all go pray for relief from the ever rising cost of getting by and just putting food on the table? And create covid super spreader events in overcrowded Churches?
Alan B.

Here we go again. Religions trying to impose their stupidity on others.
Why can theists realize that their religion is harmful. Based on no evidence and nothing but a delusion.

To Greg Bondar.

As an atheist and a "secularist" I acknowledge that the generally good values of Christianity have served as the basis for moral thought in the protestant western world. But whether you like it or not, people are turning away from religion because the mysteries of life which once confounded us are being explained away by science.

People everywhere no longer believe in some supernatural entity which once zoomed around deep space grabbing great bit chunks of nothing and banging them together, and creating trillions of galaxies with hundreds of billions of stars.

We do live in a secular age and just saying that something we do is either right or wrong because "God said it is right or wrong" in the Bible, no longer cuts it. People need to work out what is right and wrong for themselves. The moral imperatives which once ruled the lives of people thousands of years ago may or my not be applicable to the modern age.

You seem to have an adversarial approach to "secularists" who you think are anti Christian? You are not necessarily correct on that score. There are "secularists" like myself who have no problem with Christianity, provided that you and your co religionists go too far in using your still strong influence to ram whatever outdated Christian principles down the throats of people like me.

The basis of all morality was historically based upon the concepts of how far should individuals sublimate their natural self interest, in order to be considered a valued members of a group? Because entirely self interested people are of no use to group survival. This was such an important concept for the survival of every self protecting group of people, that the values that guided the survival of the group became religiously ordained by whatever clergy existed within the group.

But times change and values change. What worked in the past may not be applicable in the present. Carving religious values in stone and thinking that all of these values can never change, can never work.

Ho Ho Lego, ( There’s a rhyme)!

Imagine a pie chart divided into ten percent and ninety percent, your argument covers the very minority ten percent.

There once was a society glued together by morality, then came ethics which was a secularist invention, and down the plug hole went a cohesive society.

Dan

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Dear Greg,

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I'm not sure that Neil Johnson understands what the term secularism means. Here is the OED definition :

« The principle of separation of the state from religious institutions »

Secularism is not opposed to any religion, nor is it intolerant of any religion.

You indicate that Johnson writes :

« ... ‘the forces of secularism have decided to wage a war on anything that appears as inconsistent with their “articles of faith”. »

A system of state governance based on religion with articles of faith is a theocracy, Gregg. You should know that.

Australia is not a theocracy.

As I see that you are the NSW State Director of Family Voice Australia, Gregg, I must say I am surprised that you should give voice to such gross misinterpretations of the form and modus operandi of our highly respectable secular democracy in Australia.

We should be proud of it.

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It is always interesting to see in these 'discussions' how it is always the atheists, non believers and Bush Baptists who know more about Christianity than actual Christians do.

Another interesting thing just revealed is that the new president of the senate, who claims to be an atheist, wants the Lord's Prayer abolished in parliament, but is OK with recently invented aboriginal mumbo jumbo for 3% of the population, while around half of Australians still adhere to Christianity. These Marxist wreckers don't even try to be subtle these days.

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Dear ttbn,

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Interesting observations you made there, ttbn.

1. « It is always interesting to see in these 'discussions' how it is always the atheists, non-believers and Bush Baptists who know more about Christianity than actual Christians do. »

From my experience, many atheists etc. were Christians who took Christianity seriously and studied it scrupulously and exhaustively (they thrashed it to death, as it were), whereas many “actual Christians” never really questioned it but simply took it for granted – and continue to do so (blindly, as it were).
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2. « Another interesting thing just revealed is that the new president of the senate, who claims to be an atheist, wants the Lord's Prayer abolished in parliament, but is OK with recently invented aboriginal mumbo jumbo for 3% of the population, while around half of Australians still adhere to Christianity … »

I don’t think it has anything to do with the numbers of people or percentage of population involved, ttbn. It seems to me to be simply the logical consequence of the secular nature of our democracy, i.e., the principle of the separation of state and religion.

This means that the state must guarantee freedom of religion while remaining strictly neutral, favouring none in particular, and observing total abstinence from any religious involvement or activity.

Saying prayers and seeking God’s blessing at the opening of parliamentary sessions is a left-over of our British inheritance of the Westminster system. It is an anomaly and clearly in contradiction with the spirit of Section 16 of our Australian constitution which precludes the Commonwealth “from making laws for establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion”.

Whereas, in the UK, the British monarch, as well as being Head of State, also holds the title 'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England'. Under current laws, the monarch is required to "join in communion" with the Church of England and take on the role of Supreme Governor, promoting Anglicanism in Britain.

That does not apply to Australia.

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BJ

I don't don’t take this argy-bargy between believers and non-believers seriously. Atheists have no more proof that there is no God than do believers that there is a God. The existence of Jesus Christ on Earth, and the Christian message is enough for me.

Whatever the truth, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks; we will know - or not - after death.

In the meantime, people need to believe in something. People who sneer at Christianity believe that mere man can control the weather, for instance.

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Dear Greg,

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You conclude :

« To sum up, the conclusion can be made that we are witnessing an aggressive form of secularism, which views Christian values and beliefs with great intolerance and dismissiveness. »
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I see that not as a conclusion, but as an opening gambit. It begs the question : why ?

Nowhere in your article do you ask that question, Greg. Nor do you provide the slightest element that could possibly open up an avenue of reflection that might lead to a response of any significance.

As often in such cases, there is not just one but probably several factors that contribute to the growing disillusionment of many Christian followers. But I very much doubt that secularism is one of them.

Australia has been a secular state since federation. The Constitution of 1901 has prohibited the Commonwealth government from interfering with the free exercise of any religion for the past 121 years. Whereas the steep decline of religion dates from 1950 following the Second World War, only 72 years ago.

According to the National Church Life Survey, between 1950 and 2007 monthly church attendance declined from 44% to 17%. Since then the decline has continued but at a much slower rate.

The one major factor that comes to my mind but to which you make no allusion whatsoever is the monumental scandal that blew up in 2017 with the release of the final report of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse by the clergy of just about every religious institution in Australia.

There were 16,953 victims, 10 years old on average, 85.4% of whom suffered multiple episodes of abuse by the clergy in various religious institutions.

The commissioners concluded :

« We will never know the true number … it is a national tragedy, perpetrated over generations within many of our most trusted institutions. »

Obviously, this tragic event is more than sufficient to destroy what little confidence some people may still have had in our religious institutions – and it’s the sole fault of the institutions, themselves !

.

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Dear ttbn,

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You wrote :

« Atheists have no more proof that there is no God than do believers that there is a God. The existence of Jesus Christ on Earth, and the Christian message is enough for me. »
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Quite right, ttbn, if there is no proof, there is no proof for anybody – whether it be the butcher, the baker or the candle stick maker ( Rub a dub dub, three maids in a tub)

As for the biblical narrative of the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth, I find it quite tragic and very sad.

I don’t blame his parents for bringing him up in the belief that he was the illegitimate son of God. The social mores at the time were extremely harsh on couples who gave birth out of wedlock and Joseph and Mary were only teenagers at the time. They courageously decided to keep the baby.

Jesus faithfully assumed the role assigned to him by his parents, but it led to his tragic death in the most cruel and excruciating circumstances that his loving parents could not possibly have foreseen.

It’s a story that has inspired so many people around the world for so many generations. It’s quite amazing – thanks, essentially to Saul of Tarsus (Saint Paul) who seems to have been its principal promotor.

It has done some good, some bad. That’s life.

As long as you are happy with it, ttbn, that’s fine.

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I don't know why we allow ourselves to be drawn in to these discussions just because a total stranger wants to talk about his hobby horse. Nothing better to do perhaps.

No religious belief is required in Australia. Less than half the population now calls itself Christian. Non-Christian religions are not big. The main fascinations are climate change, race-baiting, shutting up people we don't agree with, transgenderism, homosexuality, money, and heaven knows what will turn up next - as sure as hell it won't be another Moral Rearmament, that got a brief run in the days of Billy Graham. What people believe or don't believe is private. But, Christianity and a belief in something better than we have now, on Earth or somewhere else, seems to be a good idea.

Showing how corrupted Christianity has become - the Catholic version at least - the Catholic Plenary Mass held this month featured an aboriginal smoking ceremony, "purportedly a religious practice dating back to the 1970s". Plus didgeridoo music, of course, and apologies (for being white and Christian, and here at all).

Along with the current Pope being 'more Communist than Catholic', this branch of Christianity is, fairly quickly now, ridding itself of congregations and forcing them make other arrangements.

Several things, either we believe in intelligent design by an overseeing intelligence, i.e., a creator. Or magic!

From nothing one gets nothing. I e.g., started with nothing and still have lots left.

We know for a fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. And that everything in the visible detectable universe is a unified field of energy vibrating just a tad under the speed of light. And that all this measurable energy had to exist in some form before it became our detectable universe. Can the universe think, dream or plan? Well you and I can and we are an intregral part of it!

I be believe our universe existed as dark matter that was transmuted to visible matter (let there be light) by some force with the power to make that happen, as anti natter reacted with matter to produce all we know today. And that leaves with just two choices as belief, either intelligent design or magic! From nothing comes nothing!

Primitive and medieval man had to explain their existence with myth and legend. Given the level of science that prevailed then and for some (the jgnorant and the brainwashed from birth devotees) that still works for them.
Alan B.

Burn the rainbow flag, Dan? What needs to be burnt is this ignorant and arrogant primitive and totally unproven brainwashed belief that there is some element of actual choice in ones sexual bias.

Moreover, who gave you the right to peep into the bedrooms of consenting adults then judge their morality of a falsehood.

Morality is founded on telling the truth, not on forever repeating the lie you have been brainwashed into believing. You'll have a nice day now y'hear.
Alan B.

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Dear Alan B,

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You wrote :

« … either we believe in intelligent design by an overseeing intelligence, i.e., a creator. Or magic! »
.

I doubt that either of those two exist, Alan B.

As I see it, accidents occur sometimes – the unintentional. Pure chance exists too, in my view.

Superstition and religious dogma aside, the most plausible explanation of the genesis of life appears to have been provided by the ancient Greek philosopher, Democritus (460 BC – 370 BC) who is reported to have observed that “Everything in the universe is the fruit of chance and necessity”. Jacques Monod, the French biologist, a 1965 Nobel Prize winner, later accredited and developed that theory in his book “Le hasard et la nécessité” (Chance and Necessity) published in 1970. From this it is deduced that “Life is a spontaneous, evolutive, sensitive and reproductive process triggered by the fortuitous encounter of complementary elements of matter and energy in a favourable environment”.

Chance in this context should be understood as meaning a “random variable” and necessity an “inevitable” event.

The next question, of course, is how did matter and energy come to exist ? Did they emerge (as you suggest) from dark matter and dark energy ? If so, how did that darkness come to exist ? We don’t know … yet.

I guess it’s about 5 billion (or so) years ago that you and I may possibly have emerged from all that darkness floating about in the universe. Though it seems a long time ago to us earthly human beings, Alan, I think we’ve made quite remarkable progress – and, after all, it’s only a fraction of a second on the cosmic scale.

So, patience, my friend, perhaps in another 5 billion years or so our brains will have evolved a bit further for us to comprehend a little more.

See you in the darkness !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nmHymgM7Y&ab_channel=LeonardCohenVEVO

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ttbn,

If Catholics want to have an aboriginal smoking ceremony, and play didgeridoo music, why does that offend you so? I don't know what personal practices you involve yourself with, but whatever they are I'm sure they may be disagreeable to some, like listening to Wagner, but that's your bag and who cares.

ttbn says with regard to religious belief: "... What people believe or don't believe is private." Well hurrar! Just keep it private and stop trying to ram it down my neck.


Also "... But, Christianity and a belief in something better than we have now, on Earth or somewhere else, seems to be a good idea." What a cheap and cowardly cop out to not look after Earth right here and now, because there is something better latter on.

"The media is the problem, not the solution .The terrorism of equality and its rainbow flag of intolerance has an urgent need to be lowered and burnt."

Jesus was fundamentally left wing. He preached love . The Bible specifically tells Christians not to try to control the lives of non Christians or moralise to them,. Christians are welcome everywhere - witness how much the left adores Dolly Parton, an actually decent people. Far right scum using a veneer of fake Chrisianity to launder their hate are on notice, and it's about time.

"The terrorism of equality" - are you a Satanist?'