No, we cannot afford to be generous with Ukraine in money or equipment. The sending of military equipment from our pathetically small supply is absurd. If we were to be attacked ourselves, we would fold within hours.

" …. the largest donor to Ukraine outside of the European-based NATO alliance of which we are not a part. It's a country over 10,000 kilometres away".

Who are we kidding? How far out of touch with reality is our political class? A country that can't defend itself big noting itself with a country that means nothing to Australia.

"Australian aid seems incongruous when Ukraine is surrounded by some of the richest and largest economies in the world - Germany, France, and nearby United Kingdom".

Good on you Scott Prasser. No other outside contributor to OLO makes the same sense and tells the truth the way you do.

I like your suggestion that fleeing Ukrainians, as Europeans, would be better off staying in Europe rather than coming 13,000 kilometres to a country that they have nothing in common with, and one which has already taken in many more people for its population than others - due to out politicians slavering for global recognition rather than looking after Australia.

Well, I believe we can with stuff we make here! And as we do build in economies of scale and consequent cost reduction to our own defense industries. I note your remarks regarding the blatant stupidity of a nuclear powered Germany in shutting done much of that and as they did so making themselves vastly dependent on Russian gas and oil! Also note the news that Sydney is now powering some of it's homes with wastewater biomethane and will increase production of the same as it's able?

Every Australian domicile produces enough organic waste to power their homes 24/7 with biomethane. As does Germany and the rest of Europe. I've been banging on about this for years! Thank heavens someone is finally listening!

We invented the superior two tank system and ought be over there selling Australian mass produced systems as fast as we can build them.

Aside from that, we need to do much more recycling! And only economic if the energy is very low cost!

For mine that means we need nuclear power as SMRs MSRs thorium which can also be re-tasked with burning the world's stockpiles of nuclear waste, which in the technology is just mostly unspent fuel and could power this nation for thousands of years with fuel other folks pay us to take from them for millions PA!
Alan B.

It matters not how far away it is! It's still just one planet and the longer this war continues, the worst the outcome for the environment and the future of mankind! Of course we should resettle many Ukrainians here and would if we could but house them!

And as difficult as, when we can't even put rooves over our own! Perhaps we could sponsor some and put them up in our own homes where we have spare room(s)?

Of interest is, if coal and gas-fired power were subject to the same rouge emissions requirements as nuclear, few could continue!

Why is it so hard for politicians to grasp, the sooner we transition to safe clean, and cheaper than coal, nuclear (MSR thorium) the better off we, our economy and the environment/the climate/our one planet will be!
Alan B.

One notes that in relation to Russian gas, sand batteries offer and alternative heat source with molten mediums such as silica or salt allowing stored heat as high as 1,000c to be stored and reused in
place of gas in all manner of industry!

Sand batteries are just steel silos with steel, with tons of builder's and pipes in them to carry heat in and out. And can vary in size to suit whatever application is envisaged. Only require a local steel industry to manufacture as many as we could use.

One imagines many outback industries could start up using copious outback heat. And be connected to the rest of Oz via very rapid rail.

Rapid rail to be economic needs clean, cheap energy and I've already indicated the best source of that requirement, i.e., MSR thorium!

All I've suggested could be financed by a new peoples' bank, i.e., a post office bank that allows many small private operators, a profitable look in?
Alan B.

Australian military aid to Ukraine is just prolonging the agony of the Ukrainian people. Instead of sending tanks and ammunition, which only results in more death and destruction, Australia should instead be encouraging its close ally and dominant member of NATO, the US, to sit down with Ukraine and Russia and to negotiate a peace settlement. As it is, Australia is helping prop up the US's proxy war against Russia, which is something we have no right to be doing.

Our generous response to Ukrainian refugees wouldn't be open for criticism, if only we treated other refugees with the same degree of generosity, which of course we don't. We open our arms to refugees with white skins and Christian heritage and put up the barricades to all others. Our aid to Ukraine is discriminatory and misguided and the new Labor government needs to bring it to an end. Australian aid should be focused on our own region where it can actually make a difference.

Stupid article! Of course Australia can afford it!
Firstly we're a rich country.
Secondly, demonstrating our willingness to help is the best deterrent to Chinese aggression we have. If anything, we should be doing a lot more.

Only $100 million?

Well Aidan was ahead with what I wanted to say - I second him!

I support Bronwyn's comment earlier today. Sadly the more time goes on, the harder it is for a negotiated settlement, but it's going to have to come sooner or later. Why not Australia play a peace-maker or peace-advocating role?

I agree with Aiden, we have plenty of resources to help a country that is unjustly attacked. I suspect that we and most other liberal democracies will be spending significantly more on defence in coming years, as the world becomes more dangerous and unpredictable.

Scott argues that “Japan only entered the second world war … because they observed Nazi Germany's success in Europe at that time.” If Russia succeeds in Ukraine, what message does he think that will send to China about the chances of its success in Taiwan, or seizing disputed territory in the South China Sea? Or its use of economic coercion to silence its critics in liberal democracies like Australia? And if China does become more aggressive, how can we credibly argue that the USA or other military powers should be willing to intervene, if we don’t think the Ukraine invasion is anyone’s business except the Europeans?

Perhaps Europeans were naïve in assuming that full-scale wars are a thing of the past, and that it was ok to rely on Russia as a major energy supplier. But they seem to be waking up to reality, as the rush by Finland and Sweden to join Nato attests.

Tragically, we seem to be sliding into a new cold (mostly) war between the liberal democracies and authoritarian autocracies. Given where we sit geographically, the outcome will matter to us enormously.

The interest on our debt is $99.1 million p.a, and we owe, what, $3 trillion or heading that way. But it's not just a matter of money. Ukraine has nothing to do with us, and we have unnecessarily made an enemy of Russia, which is no threat to us, and we have also further miffed Russia's ally, the Chinese Communist Party, which is definitely a threat to us.

I wonder just how much gratitude we are likely for denuding our own very meager defenses to send gear to the Ukraine. We certainly have not seen much from France, or the middle east for the tens of thousands lost there in a couple of world wars.

Not seen much from Singapore or Malaysia for many killed, & much money spent defending them from communism post ware, or from Korea either for that matter.

Can anyone imagine a single French, German or Ukraine man or bit of equipment sent here if the Chinese do start getting rough? Fat chance.

Even the Poms under Churchill wanted to let the Japs take Australia, rather than send our troops back from the middle east. "We'll take Australia back after we have dealt with the Germans" were his words.

Don't kid yourself, none in Europe are likely to lift a finger to help us if we need it, with men or equipment. We should be keeping every bit of equipment, & building or acquiring a hell of a lot more, & much more destructive, [think nuclear], weapons for our own defense.

We will only be able to expect help from the US or anyone else if defending us fits into their own defense strategy, which is somewhat unlikely with the present leadership in the US & elsewhere.

It might give some dills a nice warm fuzzy feeling to help Ukraine, but that warm feeling might become very hot & uncomfortable very quickly if we don't increase our own defense capability, & damn quickly.

Hasbeen,

Good points. Australia is used and abused by everyone because our pathetic political class is trying to look good in the UN (our biggest critic) and globally. They treat us like a cheap tart.

We can take comfort in the fact the lesser educated majority here is not as dumb as those with all their degrees !

The Russia-Ukraine conflict is the single biggest security risk in the world at the moment. If Russia by force subjugated a democratic country of 44m people and gets away with it, China will feel enabled to do the same and their target will be much closer to home for us.

Zelensky goes to America, Europe and UK and cries
He gets money and a tank.
Tank gets blown up.

Zelensky goes to America, Europe and UK and cries
He gets money and a tank.
Tank gets blown up.

Zelensky goes to America, Europe and UK and cries
He gets money and a tank.
Tank gets blown up.

See a pattern here

Putin sends in 500 tanks to take Kyiv and gets them destroyed.

Putin sends in his crack troops to take the airport and gets them killed

Putin takes snake Island and sets up a missile base and gets them killed, the equipment is destroyed and he loses 3 ships before running away.

Now Putin has lost about 1/2 of all his tanks, about 30 000 men killed and up to 100 000 injured, his ammo dumps are being destroyed and his navy has had to flee from Sevastopol because the new HIMAS rocket systems can reach them.

With the sanctions and the cost of the war Russia's economy is starting to circle the drain and Putin cannot replace his equipment at anywhere near the rate it is being destroyed. Ukraine has been given about 700 T72s and 100s of Howitzers that outrange anything Russia has got.

Russia is getting weaker and weaker and Ukraine stronger. It is only a matter of time before the tide turns.

Let those who oppose all this violence stop it ! After all, they're the ones causing it !

Hey shadowminister,
"Russia is getting weaker and weaker and Ukraine stronger.
It is only a matter of time before the tide turns."

You mean it's only a matter of time before Europe and the west causes a nuclear war,
- With their stupid plan to de-Putinise and chop Russia up into tiny manageable pieces more suitable to their interests?
Read that you useful idiot.
http://freenationsrf.org/en.html

Don't think China doesn't know it'll be next on the list if that happens.

If Ukraine uses these M270's on Crimea or the Kersh Strait bridge we might find out.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-gets-first-m270-multiple-launch-rocket-systems

Medvedev says it'll be Judgement Day if that happens.
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-07-17/medvedev-wests-refusal-to-recognise-crimea-as-russian-is-a-threat

Terminator 2 Judgement Day scene
http://youtu.be/LqSMk2IzK2o

Be careful what you wish for.

Hey Indyvidual,
"Let those who oppose all this violence stop it ! After all, they're the ones causing it !"

The US overthrew the country and spent 8 years arming and training the country.
- And 8 years shelling the DPR and LPR (poking the bear) to force Putin to act.
With all this talk of holding Putin accountable and war crimes, there probably no chance for a negotiated settlement, things will get worse before they get better, and it might be a whole lot worse.
- Guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

If I were in the northern hemisphere I'd probably be preparing for a nuclear winter.
- We need to save food and water, things could even get pretty bad for us too.

Sorry, Scott old mate, disagree with you completely.

The biggest threats to world peace today are Nazi Russia and Nazi China. One reason why Nazi Germany initially prevailed was because most European nations wanted to remain neutral. Not that it did them any good. "Neutrality" did not save Holland, Denmark, Belgium, or Yugoslavia. They all got picked off in their turn after France was defeated, and Britain was neutralised.

What we are looking at today is two fascist nations on the march, and the advanced nations of the world have the opportunity this time to do things right. Recognise good an evil, and throw all of our resources at the Ukrainians, who are self evidently, an independent country which is being invaded by a lunatic, who wants to absorb their nation into his own.(as if the Russians don't have enough land). This is Germany invading Poland again, and this time we all stand together at the same time and will stop the bastards.

Putin is going to lose, and when he does lose, it will be an object lesson to Nazi China to back off on their illegal annexation of the South China Sea. When the dictator of China sees what is happening to Putin, he may grow a brain and realise that no matter how strong he is economically and militarily, if he want to go to war with the whole world, he will lose too. His mostly Russian weapons are no match for those of the western democracies.

We have here a heaven sent opportunity. No matter how miserably equipped the Australian Army is, and it is miserably equipped,sending as much as possible of our scarce military equipment to Ukraine will pay off in the long run. And no matter that we are broke and a trillion dollars in dept, a war with China would be much, much, more expensive. We must beg, borrow, or steal as much as we can spare to help Ukraine fight off the fascists who endanger us all.

AC,

Every time that someone sends more weapons to Ukraine Russia threatens nuclear war. The reality is that Russia is not going to start a war that will wipe Russia off the map. For example, the UK has 2 nuclear subs each with 12 Trident missiles, each with 10 independently targeted thermonuclear warheads (240 Russian cities) and that doesn't count the other nukes they have. France has about the same and the US has about 2000 deployed nukes not counting the about 3000 in reserve.

At this point, no one believes Russia and as long as the Ukraine army limits the use of these weapons in Ukraine territory occupied by Russia such as the Crimea, Donbas and Kherson regions then Russia has no one but itself to blame for the west ramping up the training and arming of Ukraine freedom fighters.

Well said, LEGO!

Dear Critic,

Yes, the possibility that this could lead to a nuclear war cannot be ignored, yet we all are going to die anyway, so better die honourably as free people than as slaves to communist China or even after years of senseless agony in a corridor of some geriatric hospital.

It is not just Ukraine: would you abandon these good people as well who knew how life was under Russia and will never agree to be slaves again? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWSMdxAxW3c

Any Ukrainian who was caught singing this song during the Soviet regime was jailed, beaten and even exiled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi_u_luzi_chervona_kalyna
(or just think what would happen to you if you dared singing "Waltzing Matilda" under Chinese occupation)

The biggest threats to world peace today are Nazi Russia and Nazi China.
LEGO,
I don't agree, the Westerners are their own worst enemies. Russia & China are merely taking advantage of that stupidity.

Oh gawd. Another trendy lefty who hates his own people, culture, and country, which he prefers to live in. Well, Mr. Individual, how very fashionable of you. I gather you got your opinion from the same place you get your latte and your smashed avocado toast?

Yes, Mr Individual. The west is the most evil and racist place on the planet. Funny how everybody wants to live with us.

Please take your medication, Yuyutsu.

Funny how everybody wants to live with us.
LEGO,
They do ? Has it ever occurred to you that most just want to live off our (not yours obviously) coffers & spend their handouts in their enclaves rather than in the Australian economy !

Yuyutsu
If Estonia gets nuked it'll be their own fault for sending weapons to Ukraine.
The West started this war in 2014 when it overthrew the democratically elected Victor Yanukovych in Ukraine in 2014, installed Right Sector and Svoboda (Ukrainian Nazi Banderites)
- just the same as it armed and trained the Mujahadeen who eventually became Al Qaida / Islamic State and has caused all the worlds wars and problems

I don't want to see kids die, but the West doesn't care.
It uses democracy to take over countries through civil society groups, protester and civil unrest and overthrows - to install its puppet rulers.

It cares not about any real soverignty nor democracy.
Heaps of young innocent kids like this are going to die for the Wests plans, so you may as well get used to it.

Dear Critic,

By your very name it is your role to criticise, but why write "the West" when your criticism pertains only to one crazy country, the United States of America?

Surely Estonia is not responsible for the actions you mentioned, bad as they might be?

«If Estonia gets nuked it'll be their own fault for sending weapons to Ukraine.»

What an honourable and faultless way to die (suppose that happens), a quick one too!

«Heaps of young innocent kids like this are going to die»

Should that indeed happen, what could possibly be wrong with early promotion for the innocent, a graduation acknowledging that all their earthly duties for this lifetime were completed along with a reward ticket to upgrade to a better world?

Better spend years in bed with Parkinson disease, imprisoned in your body without being able to move or communicate, before dying anyway?

Or better perhaps to sit like a duck, first seeing your betrayed comrades dying or being enslaved because they ran out of ammunition then waiting for the Russians or Chinese to take over and make you their slave too?

You talk against the West, but your attitude towards death, that hysteria and denial of Friend Death, that superstition as if the demise of your physical body was the end of you, betrays you as a Westerner par excellence.

The west is the most evil and racist place on the planet.
LEGO,
You really have no concept, have you ? Billions of non-Western heritage do not share the West's values only its money made by no values ! Unless you call manipulation as some form of value.

Well, I disagree, Mr Individual. My contention is, that the west is not racist enough. We have demonised racism to such a degree, and we have become so anti racist, that we can not recognise that multiculturalism has been a catastrophe for every country that was cursed by it. One way of describing racism could be "the protection of our own people from dangerous others" which sounds like virtue to me. The west is the least racist community on earth and it is paying the price for it's stupidity through not enforcing our borders, leading to the invasion of our territories by people who are not suited to the task of surviving and prospering within a competitive society.

The Asian people are smarter than white people, and they have wholeheartedly embraced the western ideal of hard work and competition. They have absolutely no intention of destroying their own civilisation through the importation of low IQ Muslims, South Americans, Africans, or Pacific Islanders. Because of that, they are beating the pants off us economically.

Their Achilles heel, is that their societies are bereft of Judeo/Christian values which values honesty and humanitarianism. Therefore, their societies are riddled with corruption which may rot their societies out in a different way to the way in which people like you rot out western society. People with disabilities are generally not treated kindly in Asian societies. Children with disabilities have a habit of disappearing in Asian societies, and the police do not bat an eyelid.

Western societies certainly are not perfect, but they represent the free-est, most technologically advanced, least racist, most humane, and best places on planet earth to live in. How specimens like yourself get off always finding fault in your own culture is beyond me?

LEGO,
I don't entirely disagree however, I can't help observing that Western mentalities are self-destructing. Aligning amassed wealth is not a gauge that provides an accurate reading when it comes at the cost it is now clearly projecting. I mean cost in every which way ! The cost of helping those who only want to see the West down because they've been indoctrinated to think that wealth should be available without effort is purely due to the West's academic elite of do-gooders who never experienced the need for merit in order to make a living !

AC,

If Estonia is Nuked, then Russia is Nuked. There is no scenario where Russia uses nukes and things are better for it.

Russia is losing the war. It is losing more soldiers and hardware every day than it can ever hope to replace. The battle is now turning in Ukraine's Favour.