Ukraine will not win this war with Russia. Ukraine will be a very undesirable place to live for a long time.

What would Trump have done. Something far more sensible: IE a long term move for US to align its objectives towards opposing Chinese incursions into Siberia.

A weakened Russia is a dumb move. US destabilisation of Ukraine will ultimately fail badly.

If ever there was a recipe for another failed US war, this currently is it.

Dan

War appears to be the only option to reign-in stupidity, particular the epidemic-proportioned one among the violent anti-war crowd !

Well individual, I give you the same advice I give many others: throw your TV out into the back yard and set fire to it with your daily newspapers and start thinking for yourself.

The first five minutes of free thought will enlighten you to the obvious truths which the propaganda machinery is desperate to keep from you.

it’s in the best interests of the US as usual, to stoke the fires of hell with bombs made in the US, there’s big big money in it.

And for our sycophants in Canberra, a question or two: how many hospitals and schools could we build with $75m wasted on weapons for a Ukrainian banana republic?

Who decided the Ukrainian puppet President should waste the time and taxpayers money further, by disrupting our Parliamentary proceedings with a propaganda speech written in Washington?

And finally, all those weeping (wealthy end) Ukrainian refugees we will bow down to, why must our own home grown homeless shift sideways for their useless arses to inhabit our non existent surplus housing in an overheated and manipulated market?

See if you can manufacture more than three lines in a row and give us an inkling to where you stand on the issue, and why.

Dan.

and why.
diver dan,
You described the Left to a T as in Trottels !

It is a pretty big call to say that Putin is "stunned". And Russians have never cared what "the international community" (if there is such a thing) cares about them.

"Ukraine's spirited defence has inspired much of the world". Inspired to do what? In Australia's case, hand over money and equipment we don't have to defend ourselves from China. Clap some big mouth on a TV screen and call him a hero? Continue to look the other way as China prepares to come within missile distance from us, while we don't have a single, useful missile?

Australia's 'inspiration' should come from Russia and the defensive missiles around Moscow and throughout the country. Russia values its sovereignty and defence much more than we do.

Suter says, "all of Russia's failings are being publicised globally". What about the things that are not publicised? Just our dislike of Putin or Russia does not make them stupid. There is a lot of wishful thinking going on here, with heads in the sand and bums in the air waiting to be kicked.

Ukraine is being used to take our minds off our own country and region and the unpalatable fact that where we live - not just some hole in Europe - has become a very dangerous place that our useless politicians have not made adequate preparations to defend.

Warnings about "the risks of waging offensive warfare", are totally irrelevant to little old Australia, which is a threat to nobody, but is threatened by China, against whom we have no defence.

Yes, it has all gone pear shaped for the Russian dictator! China on the other hand is increasing its slow and sure influence and territory with economic measures.

A few cargo cult leaders thought they could play both ends against the middle as they played the courtesan to China thinking that would make others enter into a bidding war to retain family relations.

We shouldn't allow ourselves to be manipulated in this way nor get involved in the military adventures of others.

Our military needs serious beefing up, but for exclusive defense purposes. With the Ukraine as the template against military invasion. And on the understanding, nobody wins in a war!
Alan B.

Footnote: Serious beefing up means nuclear subs, nuclear weapons nuclear power and new high tech weapons. Some of which could come from local innovation. And a welcome change from exporting our finest minds and their best ideas! It also means more personal and skills upgrading!
Alan B.

What would Trump (Putin's man in Washington) have done? Well, judging on his actions in office? He'd have rolled over and begged for a tummy rub? Or handed over some of the U.S. high tech military advantages? Further weakened NATO with funding withdrawal?

Thank heavens this divisive Quisling was beaten with a record turnout in recorded history and allowed the U.S. to remain free and not an outpost of Putin's new SSR? Handed over as a divided rabble and on a silver platter?
Alan B.

Stephen Vincent Benet prophetically wrote the following
which is still relevant today:

"Oh, where are you coming from, soldier, gaunt soldier
With weapons beyond any reach of my mind
With weapons so deadly the world must grow older
And die in its tracks if it does not turn kind..."

Russian wire guided missiles damn near stopped the Israel tanks last time in the Sinai. How stupid the Russians thought their tanks could roll through Ukraine unmolested. Some are pretty slow learners.

Go back ninety years and Japan and Germany were spouting the same aggression justified by a paranoid narrative alleging that the rest of the world was in cahoots to destroy them. Now both are very prosperous democracies.

Ninety years later and Russia remains an autocratic regime with a poor economy, conducting unprovoked military offensives against its neighbours, its controlled media spouting a paranoid narrative about how much of the world is secretly plotting to take it apart.

Western nations have good reason to support the Ukranians. Giving them more hardware will allow them to destroy the Russian invaders more quickly. As well as the refugees, deaths and forcible expatriations, Ukraine has suffered over half a trillion dollars in damage to property and infrastructure.

Go back a thousand years and you will gain a greater understanding of why Ukraine will not win this war. Go back seven hundred years and you will further understand why China becomes involved in the outcome.
Ukraine the blood lands, not without reason.

The US would be much wiser to negotiate a settlement with Russia that tends to keep China isolated from the conflict. China has every reason more than the US to become involved.

If that happens, the new Empire is born and we lose…badly.

Dan

Dan,

Why aren't Germany and Japan a threat to the world today? I think the only thing stopping Russia being thrown out faster is hesitation from Biden and Europe in sending more weapons to Ukraine. I also think that the Russian people would have put a stop to things were their media not so heavily censored. The deaths of thousands of Russian soldiers wont be hidden for long.

There is no way for Russia to win a war she initiated by an unprovoked invasion. And in so doing brought the rest of an outraged free world in on the Ukrainian side!

There is no need for the U.S. to do more than provide the best military hardware she can. Other nations are providing battle hardened soldiers, ready willing and able to fight!

And should Russia prevail? It will undoubtably face years of non winnable guerilla warfare! And that's only if an already basket case, banana republic economy has any battle gas left in the tank. Any more sacrificial men to throw on the fire?

And many are deserting and those that remain have, trauma induced, low moral

China can watch and learn that this is not how one acquires new/contested territory. That the only way that can now be done is through slow but sure economic measures and abundant goodwill!
Alan B.

A few comments....
The world is overpopulated?
It could not support us all as hunter-gatherers.
We use reason to evolve plans to correct deficiencies.
We build and plant etc etc.
Reason is the unrivalled determining factor in our success.

Reason can be applied to resolve conflict as well?
Reason should always be first 'cab off the rank'.
But when reason fails, brute force might be needed?
Enter war.
War is the last, almost desperate, measure which can be tried.
A peaceful means of resolving difference is far better for all.

War can work where there is real arbitary unfairness applied by a country or regime.
Such an imbalance should be overcome, to ensure peace continues.
Good men will rise to the challenge.
These men are mentally focussed, and their cause is just.
Their strength of purpose is high.
This give them a great 'fighting' advantage.
The opposition force knows subconsciously that its actions are morally suspect.
I think this lessens its strength of purpose.

We live in times where we have great knowledge of ourselves and our planet.
Rapid and comprehensive communication allows this to be available to all persons.
We thus have a much greater understanding of how to plan for life ahead.
Surely we can use our excellent reasoning skills to avoid destructive wars?
With reason predominant, should we not be able to relegate war to a satisfyingly distant place?

A progressive society looks after ALL of those who inhabitant its territory.
It determines and applies good principles to prevent famine and poverty.
Cannot these ideals be applied to the world at large?
Should not all people in all places help those who are disadvantaged by circumstance?
Do this by giving practical help in the short term, and educating people for the longer term?
This can only be actioned at government level, as individuals will not have access to detailed information needed to make a plan.
So we should not quibble when a government provides money to help those, in other places, who are severely disadvantaged?
We should not be so mean-spirited?

<< This is not a rerun of Russia's Crimean operation in 2014, when the west led by President Obama did nothing to resist the Russian take over in Crimea and other parts of eastern Ukraine. >>

There was no takeover of Crimea to resist. The Crimean people voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia. They had no wish to be governed by a US-led puppet which had illegally usurped their democratically-elected government. There was no Russian takeover of any other part of Ukraine either. The Donbass region was still part of Ukraine at that time and would have remained so to this day if Ukraine had had the decency to honour the 2014 and 2015 Minsk Agreements it had signed along with Russia, Germany and France.

<< It (NATO) had been largely dormant since its victory over the USSR in 1991 … >>

It most certainly had not! Under US leadership, NATO has deliberately set about recruiting each of the former USSR nations into its ranks and has relentlessly expanded eastward and invested heavily in militarily threatening and containing Russia. If NATO truly had lain dormant since 1991, Russia would never have taken the military action it has in Ukraine.

<< The Russians are already trying to redefine what would constitute "victory" for them because they will not be able to take over the country. >>

Russia has never intended to take over Ukraine. Its plans are to destroy the military infrastructure supplied to Ukraine by the US and its neo-Nazi military. It also aims to have Ukraine declared neutral territory and as such serve as a buffer to the ever-expanding threat of NATO.

The US could easily have made peace with Russia if it had wanted to. Russia has been trying for over two decades to negotiate with the US and NATO. Its many diplomatic efforts and eminently-sensible draft treaties have been flatly rejected. The US is not interested in a peaceful settlement. Its aim is regime change in Russia and it won't rest until it's been achieved.

I deliberately avoided mentioning nature at work.
How a burgeoning world population must succumb to natural consequence.
Famine and disease will cut the world population down to a manageable size?
That is a war we cannot win.

And by the way....
I quote from the above by Bromwyn: 'Its plans are to destroy the military infrastructure supplied to Ukraine by the US and its neo-Nazi military.'
I comment: And you do this by decimating the civilian population?
Isn't that rather harsh and unproductive?
Do unto others etc.......

Bronwyn,

Substitute a few names, e.g. Zionists for Nazis, and your comment sounds like the paranoid propaganda of Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan justifying their unprovoked military aggression.

What you don't see Bronwyn is that the economic failure of Russia is a result of the autocratic cleptocracy running the show in Russia, not the "Elders of Zion" type paranoid delusion invented by Noodles Putin and his psychopathic henchmen.

Oh, and aside from the brutality and war crimes, spot the difference between "Vlad's Army" and "Dad's Army". Can you? I can't.

No sane or rational person wants a war! But when Herr Hitler went too far and brought the dogs of war to the world. For his personal grandiose delusions and addiction to power! The free world had no choice than to defend freedom against tyranny! And the axis of evil.

If one doesn't stand up to bullies? All one accomplices is to become a eternal punching bag for the bully.

Did the Ukraine choose war? No they didn't! But war choose them via the whim and caprice of a madman! It's all well and good to sing, give peace a chance. Who would disagree with such fine sentiment? Not I!

But to have peace today all the peace-nicks need do is convince Putin to call off his dogs and negotiate a real deal treaty/end to hostilities.

Standing on a corner singing Cum-by-yar ain't going to cut it or change anything! Nor change the nightmare of a madman with his finger hovering over a red button!
Alan B.

Bronwyn,

Any "election" run by the Russians is a complete joke.

The way the war is going the Ukrainians will retake the Donbas and Crimea. Then we can have a genuine election.

Well said Alan B and shadowminister!

Who starts war, the antagonist or the retaliator ?

Thank you Bronwyn for encouraging the healthy and powerful thoughts being expressed on this topic.
Even a negative outlook can have positive results?
It can help others clarify their own stance?

I think Ukraine has been a spectacular testing ground for the west's new missiles systems, especially against tanks and aircraft.

The latest UK based StarStreak anti-aircraft system which is the fastest and longest range portable system has just been delivered to Ukraine and almost immediately cut a Russian attack helicopter in half before they could even try to deploy anti-missile systems.

The Russians should be thanked for so generously providing such a plethora of targets to allow the west to battle test these systems.

More to come...

Ipso Fatso

<< And you do this by decimating the civilian population? >>

I’m not condoning war, but we do need to maintain some perspective here. Yes, many Ukrainians have suffered, but they have not been decimated. Many have been able to leave the country or find underground shelter. The Russian assault has largely been confined to military and neo-Nazi targets. Yes, there have been civilian casualties, but it has not been the all-encompassing slaughter it's often portrayed as in the Western media. Atrocities have been committed by the Ukrainian fighters, which we're not told about. And many Ukrainians have put themselves in harm’s way by taking up arms, again something we're rarely reminded of.

Western media uncritically parrots what is fed to it by the Ukrainian government, which is churning out a steady and sophisticated public relations campaign aimed at massaging the truth and gaining military support. Behind this PR effort is an army of foreign political strategists, Washington lobbyists and a network of intelligence-linked media outlets. According to one Ukrainian PR firm, more than 150 such firms have joined the propaganda blitz. The carefully stage-managed photo ops Zelensky orchestrates daily are deliberately feeding us Ukraine’s version of the truth. We need to be aware of this and balance our understanding through accessing other sources as well.

Fester

<< What you don't see Bronwyn is that the economic failure of Russia is a result of the autocratic cleptocracy running the show in Russia ... >>

Russia is no more an economic failure than any other country with huge wealth disparities. The wealth and political power of American billionaires and trillionaires dwarfs that of Russia’s. Nine out of ten of the world’s richest men live in the US. They make about the same in a single minute as the average American household earns in an entire year. The US is every bit as much of an oligarchy as Russia, if not more so. Never before in American history have so few owned so much. And as a result of this minority bilking of the national wealth, almost fifty million Americans live below the poverty line. Australia is following the same trend. It’s a bit rich to accuse Russia of cleptocracy when our own economies are so far removed from being fair and democratic.

<< Oh, and aside from the brutality and war crimes, spot the difference between "Vlad's Army" and "Dad's Army". Can you? I can’t. >>

The US Pentagon assesses that the Russian forces still retain nearly ninety percent of their initial combat power, so no, your Dad’s Army comparison is not valid. And as for the war crimes, they’re allegedly being committed by both sides. Let’s wait until due process decides whether or not the Russians have committed war crimes. Perhaps that can be done after the ICC has looked at the US atrocities committed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

" The Russian assault has largely been confined to military and neo-Nazi targets. "

Mariupol??

"Russia is no more an economic failure than any other country with huge wealth disparities. The wealth and political power of American billionaires and trillionaires dwarfs that of Russia’s. "

Translation....Russia isn't a failed economy because.....oh look over there.

As I said in another thread, Russia is a third world country with first world weapons (although after the past few weeks even its weapons are in doubt.)

Using the poverty line to compare countries displays either a desire to deceive or a lack of understanding. Yes, about 15% of USians live on or below the poverty line (its designed that way). But that's the US poverty line, not the Russian one. The standard of living of those on the poverty in the US would place them in the top quartile in Russia in terms of standard of living.

Ponder this. Why are people desperate to immigrate to the US but desperate to emigrate from Russia. The climate?

I've been to both nations. Russia, outside the few major cities is decrepit, run down and depressing. My father-in-law, a lifelong Marxist visited Russia in 1995 and came back a firm supporter of Reaganism.

Irrespective of what happens in the war from here on in, Russia has lost. Their military is now seen to be a paper tiger; Europe has been shocked into action with Germany now allocating funding that will make them the third biggest military in the world by 2027; Russia has lost all hope of winning the hearts and minds of Ukrainians even if they do conquer the place.

When Trump said Putin's recognition of the independence of the Donbass states was a genius move, he was right. It was. But everything after that has been a disaster for Putin and the Rus people. Its hard to believe it can get worse, but it will.

With a population of 144 million, Russia's economy is only about the size of Australia's.

Bronwyn,

My own view is that in Russia the Nazi terror of the second world is exploited by the autocracy to keep it safe from becoming a liberal democracy. I suspect that Putin and his henchmen thought Ukraine easy pickings and were looking forward to looting its riches.

In the same way, I think that lack of social support in the USA relates to some politicians equating such policies to communism.

Per capita GDP in the USA is three times that of Russia. I think Biden a crook, but he doesn't have a 700 million dollar super yacht and 100 billion dollars stashed away. I think that using the Russian cleptocrat's loot to rebuild Ukraine a good idea, especially as they keep their loot a secret from the Russian people.

The Pentagon estimate was a bit under 90% after four weeks. That is a conservative estimate. I suspect that after six weeks over 20% of the Russian force has been destroyed, but even a ten percent loss every four weeks in unsustainable, and with the flow of armaments to the Ukranians the rate of destruction of the Russian army could well accelerate. To put the rate of attrition in perspective, the German army had bit over 40% of its soldiers killed or missing in WWII (<1% per month attrition). Russia could see over 10% of its invading force killed in less than two months (>5% per month attrition).

Bronwyn,

You might also consider comparing paranoid cleptocratic autocracy Russia with post Nazi/commie Germany and post imperialist Japan. Instead of using a controlled media to make their populations as paranoid as Q-anon conspiracy nutters to justify their wanton murder, looting and destruction, peaceful and paranoia free Japan and Germany have four and five times the per capita GDP as Russia and indulge in such pastimes as this:

https://imgur.com/fF50iGh

Pathetic isn't it Bronwyn? I mean, wouldn't it be more character building for Mrs Miagi to tear up an Uncle Sam target with a machine gun like this?

https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1260_/public/main_images/0wj6zlzk8zh31.jpg?itok=xLGI_MHd

At least the Russians are maintaining their sense of adventure. I believe the Weber on wheels experience is all the rage for them atm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na4Xp0suT2o

Karaoke kamikaze anyone?

Early Days to make a decisive summation re the outcomes of this war!

Putin thought it would last 2 or 3 days. Now it is almost 40 days with 17,000 dead Russians and 10 billion (that's with a B) dollars of destroyed military equipment on the Russian side!

Meantime, rearmament from the USA, the UK, Europe, NATO, and even Australia is breathing new life into the Ukrainian resistance. Putin is scurrying off to find fighters in Lebanon, Syria and the various STAN republics to bolster his army! Two days ago he declared that 135,000 new troops (mainly conscripts) will enter the war (oops! "special operations!!)... The Ukrainians responded with, "Please bring your own body bags, because you will need them when you go back to where you came from!" Not exactly a sentiment expressed by an army that lost its confidence, eh?

Putin now focuses on the East and South, despite the fact that the Luhansk and Donbas areas were already in his hands prior to the war beginning. He also controlled Crimea to the South - and all he has really achieved is the indiscriminate destruction of civilian life and property! The life of Russians has been changed for at least the next two or three generations particularly as they will be forced to make war reparations to Ukraine for their murderous destruction. in fact, Putin has gambled and lost big time, and my prediction is that he will be "disposed of" in the usual Russian way within the next few months.

However till then, he is still a commander that can launch devastating nuclear and chemical warfare into Ukraine. But then, the "imaginary red-line" would be crossed and I think that you would find the scope of the war broadening towards a swift end. Turning Moscow into glass is not a pleasant thought, but it may occur if this madman is pushed into a nuclear confrontation. Let's hope and PRAY it doesn't come to that!

Taunt, taunt, taunt, taunt - Whack !
That's how wars eventuate !

Bronwyn,

Your level of self-delusion is incredible as the only news source that backs your claims is the highly censored drivel coming from Russia. There is no evidence that the tiny Ukrainian far-right has any influence on the government.

The "west" that you claim is unanimously parroting the Ukrainians is a collection of independent democracies that are happy to slag each other off and most have their own reporters in Ukraine. Similarly, no one takes the Ukrainian claims at face value but does their best to evaluate the situation with satellites etc and their figures of Russian casualties is far lower than Ukrainian claims but far higher than Russia admits.

As for the Russian economy, the vast country with huge mineral wealth has a GDP similar to that of Italy which would put it fourth or fifth in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYCnk83Ckd4

Russian war crimes and atrocities are now being collated for future tribunals. Russia, of course denies all of this, as it continues its internal propaganda, keeping its citizens in ignorance. This, I received from a contact in Ukraine. Please READ and PASS on:

"Russian troops are looting the homes of citizens around Kyiv, taking with them electronics, jewelry, cars, home appliances, coffee makers, clothes, children's toys and other items of value. Two things stand out to me...

(1) how sad must the Russian living conditions be that soldiers have looted things like coffee makers and running shoes...

(2) the Russian army is nothing more than a bunch of low level criminals/ thugs that are well armed.

I have personally seen videos taken by Russian soldiers bragging about taken wedding rings off of civilians they have killed...the SBU has intercepted calls from soldiers to their wives asking for a list of items to loot for their home; things like coffee makers, laptops, phones, and clothes.

I have seen videos taken by Russian soldiers laughing as they left homes they raided carrying out television sets. I personally saw one disturbing video where three Russian soldiers were laughing as they filmed themselves eating the food and drinking the alcohol of the family they just killed inside their own homes...bragging and laughing as the bodies of the homeowners laid in the house, just feet from where the Russian soldiers were eating and getting drunk.

What kind person takes wedding rings off of innocent civilians they killed...?

Who eats and drinks over the bodies they kill...?

What kind of person goes to war to steal coffee makers...?

What kind of mentally sick people are these Russian soldiers? This is widespread and not isolated instances. The Russian mentality is sick and inhumane!

I suppose I had better comment again.
One can take a series of facts about this conflict, and make many different stories out of them.
A bit of 'panel-beating' in the process can help with this.
But which, if any, is the right story?
Only by being there in the thick of things might we know for sure.
So we should listen to reporters 'on the ground', who are likely to see the reality of what is happening.

They see only one facet of course, but we can add their many facets together?
In this way, we can form a logical over-view of the real truth?
In any case, where there is conflict, the first response of others should be to stop that conflict?
Then examine the circumstances in an attempt to resolve difference?

Currently, there appears to be an aggressor (Russia) and an 'aggressed' (Ukraine).
This would make it seem that our support would be for the Ukraine?
We might have a change of mind if there were clear evidence that Russia was justified.
But so far, I see nothing to support that idea.
I see no logical reason for the attack.
I see the opposite.

Just a quick post: I spent 26 days in Ukraine in 2019, traveling from Kyiv to Lviv through central Ukraine (though I did also visit Odesa), and spoke continually with Russian-speaking and Ukrainian speaking citizens. This was my third trip to that nation. I also have been to Moscow on three separate occasions - and speak three Slavic languages proficiently. These trips allowed me to make contact with higher ranking officials as well as ordinary people who became good friends and now, immediate contacts, with what is happening "on the ground." You can certainly assure yourself that Ukraine has been viciously and brutally attacked without provocation by a madman who wished to leave a legacy of re-establishing the power of the collapsed Soviet Union. Ukraine was to be Putin's first incursion, followed by war taken into the now independent Baltic States. In his ambitions, he has achieved a spectacular failure that ultimately will cost him his career, and possibly his life. In the meantime, Ukraine continues to suffer as they resist his attacks and his failed objectives.

I remember seeing posters of German soldiers depicting them as monsters with fangs !
Similar is done with the Russians now !
I remember talking with an Australian ex B17 or Liberator pilot who was shot down on his first mission to Germany. He told me that "that was the best thing that happened to me in that war".
When he saw my (expected) reaction & surprise he said that being a flying officer he was put into an officers prison in Germany for the duration of the war & rather well looked after unlike the ordinary soldiers.
I am just so wary now of anything the media shows & portrays. There's no denying that soldiers get out of hand, that's what war does to people forced to put their life on the line by their leaders or the people they fight against.
Putin stunned the World & quite possibly surprised the Ukrainians & Russians in Ukraine also.

Indi,

I think the mass execution of civilians by Russian forces puts a dent in your argument.

shadowminister,
I'm fully aware of the atrocities by many of the Russian soldiers & I have no intention whatsoever to come across as condoning them.
I'm simply saying that thus far I haven't heard on the situation of Russian civilians living in Ukraine, they surely won't be handled with kids' gloves by the Ukrainians either. How many of those murdered or killed civilians could have been Russian at the hands of Ukrainians?
War brings out the worst & best in humans on both, the taunters & retaliators' sides & even more so from the manipulating instigators !
Remember how "hard" Biden said the Us would come down on Russia & the "severe" consequences Russia would face if they invaded Ukraine ?

mhaze

<< " The Russian assault has largely been confined to military and neo-Nazi targets. “ Mariupol?? >>

Yes, a neo-Nazi stronghold and as such a priority target. The Azov regiment is based in Mariupol and is responsible for much of the carnage that has occurred there.

<< Using the poverty line to compare countries displays either a desire to deceive or a lack of understanding. >>

It displays neither. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of describing Russia as an economic failure when wealth disparity in the West is equal to and in the case of the US exceeds that in Russia. Economies that have obscenely wealthy individuals who have accrued their wealth through exploiting and screwing a downtrodden and captive working class are failures. The US is one such economy. It's the main reason Trump got as far as he did.

<< My father-in-law, a lifelong Marxist visited Russia in 1995 and came back a firm supporter of Reaganism. >>

That was when Russia was being ‘led’ by Boris Yeltsin who was being walked all over by the US. The US was ruthlessly exploiting Russia’s vulnerability under Yeltsin and yes, Russia was in a bad state at that time. Putin came in at the end of that decade and turned things around. The US has been gunning for him ever since. It will not stop until it has removed Putin from power and reinstalled another Yeltsin-like puppet.

Fester
<< I think Biden a crook, but he doesn't have a 700 million dollar super yacht and 100 billion dollars stashed away. >>

I have no doubt that Putin is a wealthy man, but I have seen no evidence that he flaunts his wealth. Your claims are supposition only and need to be stated as such.

<< I suspect that Putin and his henchmen thought Ukraine easy pickings and were looking forward to looting its riches. >>

Putin had clearly defined reasons for entering Ukraine and seems to be on track in achieving them, though too early to know for sure. The Russian Government has no need or interest in anything from Ukraine, apart from destroying its military infrastructure and its neo-Nazi presence and as such reducing the threat they pose to Russia’s national security and to the ethnic Russians in the Donbass region.

Anyone every heard of the traditional card game
"Durak?" Apparently it is Russia's most popular
card game having dislaced "Preferans."

Some of these postings remind me of the game.

Another Russian word also comes to mind when reading posts
defending Putin's actions - "Podkhalim!-

To those defending Putin's actions in the Ukraine
you can now pick up "The Putin Flying Fickle Finger
of Fate" award, at your nearest Russian embassy.

But you'd better hurry - as Putin may not be around
for much longer. He's WANTED FOR WAR CRIMES!

Bronwyn,

"That was when Russia was being ‘led’ by Boris Yeltsin...."

Yeah sure Bronwyn. Russia was a paradise pre-Yeltsin and again post-Yeltsin. But was a disaster during Yelstin. If you believe that I have this bridge I'd like to talk to you about.

I've been visiting Russia since 1981, at least yearly up to 1993 and then less often after. Russia is indeed a third world country. So do you agree that those in the US on the poverty line have a standard of living similar to the top quartile in Russia?

I've not taken sides in the Ukrainian conflict. Its just realpolitik in the 21st century. Its been going on for millennia. But in realpolitik terms, Putin has made a horrendous error. The problem is that those who rhapsodise over the erstwhile worker's paradise such as yourself just fall for all the propaganda. The claims about routing out Nazis is nothing but a cover for imperialism. As I've previously shown you, if Putin really was concerned about Nazis he'd do something about those in his own country. Even if true, quite why he'd be concerned about Nazis in a country that can't possibly threaten Russia is left (deliberately) unsaid.