"The indiscriminate targeting of any civilian population - Israeli or otherwise - should be called out whenever or wherever it occurs. There simply is no justification whatsoever to condone or excuse such heinous conduct."

Your words David. That applies to the thousands of Palestinian people whose houses have been destroyed to make way for illegal Jewish settlements.
David

Pay for your own guns singer.

"We cannot be talking only about Israelis' need for safety at a time when Palestinians are living under a violent apartheid system…"
Israel is not doing itself any favours is it?
A bit hard to love...........
I don`t think it is the jews who are hated, Israel perhaps might be.

What ridiculous whinging! There's no good reason why Israel should not fund its own defences.
And it isn't Jew-hatred to believe that if Israel treated the Palestinians better it wouldn't have to spend so much on defence. It's a reasonable argument whether or not it's actually valid.

Oh my god you're a bloody idiot.
So not giving Israel a billion dollars in aid is Jew hatred.
Stop trying to suck the life blood from the American people you sick leech.
American citizens don't have to subsidise Jews.
They should hate you, you're a nation of sponges, moochers.

Apparently around 2% of population of the USA identify as Jewish. Among them are some who oppose what amounts to the Criminal Apartheid Zionist Settler Settler State in Occupied Palestine. However, there are many wealthy and influential people who support it. Including Christian fundamentalists who have been convinced by cunning Zionists to believe Jews should be in control in Israel for a second coming of Christ. Unfortunately this has resulted in many politicians supporting a lot of undeserved aid to Israel because if they don't, Zionists often organize well funded campaigns to have them removed from office. Those opposing large amounts of US taxpayer money to prop up what amounts to a parasite state should be congratulated and given extra support by their constituents. Not denigrated by those who think like David Singer. The Zionists want others to contribute to the enormous cost of keeping up the supply of missiles for the Iron Dome defences of Israel. Basically a large inventory of expensive high tech ones capable of shooting down incoming hostile missiles (or planes). However, seems their overall effectiveness is greatly reduced considering those basically retaliating against Zionist brutality can just attack with large numbers of relatively low tech and low cost missiles. Seems the main objective of many of them, rather than hit and blow up targets has been to draw fire from the Iron Dome defenses and "blow up" its budget. This is only sustainable if US politicians continue supporting Zionists - and the military industrial complex which wants continuing business supplying missiles and other military equipment.

A complex issue often called The Jewish Question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_question

Personally- the Hebrew diaspora generally needs to have their own nation run by their own culture- just as western and other peoples need their own nation run by their own culture. Cautiously supportive of Israel- but not of Israel's foreign policy activities in the west and other nations.

Ironically US Hebrew's usually vote Democrat- and President Trump's son in law is Hebrew from memory- perhaps secular Hebrew.

The US should be dominated by British American people just as Australia should be dominated by British Australian people- sadly certain institutions appear anecdotally to have become dominated by "foreign" ethnicities and ideologies. I'm concerned about foreign interlopers interfering with sovereignty- but diplomatic intrigue is eternal.

Sadly the island of stability that nurtured the creativity of the British industrial revolution might by destroyed by the technological products of the industrial revolution.

A particular resilience developed within the Hebrew culture in Judea perhaps as a result of living within a part of the world that has been long contested- the rich trade opportunities of the Mediterranean Sea- on the Silk Road- near the Persian's and the Parthian's- the Sahara- the Roman's. It built castles with high walls to protect itself and it's culture.

The region has perhaps bred a new stubborn culture- The Muslims.

Some people, some ethnicities/ ideologies, some nations perhaps need conflict to justify their existence, also some fight for survival, some fight for tradition.

Whether the Muslims, the Hebrews, the West, the Communists, the Global Capitalists protect their culture out of fear, hate, aggression, racism, ideological idealism they will protect their own at the expense of others- existential.

Freud talked of the dangerous crowd- which he saw perhaps as an outsider as a seething mass of emotions- that needed to be controlled. Perhaps he should have been psycho-analysed for projective traits. Jung on the other hand believed that one couldn't understand the normal by studying the pathological. Sadly it appears that Freud has been more influential.

The Lefties perhaps need to remember that my rights don't begin where their rights end.

This was just 2 days ago.

Here are some photos (NSFW - blood and the boy photo): [http://imgur.com/a/LkxVV4J](https://imgur.com/a/LkxVV4J)

A Twitter thread by B'Tselem:

"Yesterday, on the Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah, a pogrom took place in the South Hebron Hills.

Dozens of masked settlers set out from the settlements of Havat Ma’on and Avigail and attacked the residents of nearby Khirbet al-Mufaqarah. Escorted by Israeli security forces, they invaded Palestinian homes, smashed windows, and caused massive damage to equipment, including many vehicles. They also attacked three-year-old Muhammad Baker Mahmoud Hamamdeh, who, according to his family, suffers from a fractured skull and is currently hospitalized.

How did it all begin? At around 2:00 P.M., several settlers from Avigail attacked a Palestinian shepherd, a resident of Khirbet a-Rakeez, while he was grazing his flock about 200 meters away from the settlement and tried unsuccessfully to steal his flock, which was returned to him by women and residents who had gathered to retrieve it. However, the settlers did manage to slaughter four of his goats. During that afternoon and evening, Border Police officers and soldiers who were present at the violent incidents arrested one of the Palestinian residents and covered for the marauding settlers by firing tear gas canisters at residents trying to defend themselves and their property.

In recent months, state-backed settler violence has been raging in the South Hebron Hills."

I would bet that the shepherd was robbed by other Palestinians. It is clear that Palestinians are more likely to suffer violence from other Palestinians than Israelis.

Criticism of Israel is more often than not a thinly veiled antisemitism. These racists can easily be identified by their refusal to admit that the Palestinians are guilty of atrocities and war crimes, and by posting fabricated stories of Israeli "attacks"

Shadowminister is one of those who tries to dismiss any criticism of or action against Jews or the state of Israel as supposedly unjustified "antisemitism" The problem with so called "antisemitism" is when Jews who have done nothing wrong suffer. To reduce this, what is needed is PROPERLY TARGETED so called antisemitism. ie As much as possible against just Jews who do or attempt dirty things against "goyim" (non Jews) especially. In some instances, decent Jews are in the best positions for possibly taking action against bad behaving ones. Needs more of them to stand up against Jews in positions of power. Especially against those running what is effectively the Criminal Apartheid Zionist Setter State in Occupied Palestine.

shadowminister,

So an Israel based Jewish human rights organisation is now according to you peddling anti-semiticism and are anti-semitites?

What a tosser you are aren't you.

SR

Once again you are the first to post insults. You are not only a typical antisemite but a complete twat. You post drivel from this political mouthpiece that calls itself a human rights organisation that produces highly partisan articles. The only thing worse than outright lies is half-truths which this site trades in.

Come back when you are a human being.

Shadowminister,

First to use insults?

What a flog you are.

This is what you posted:

"Criticism of Israel is more often than not a thinly veiled antisemitism. These racists can easily be identified by their refusal to admit that the Palestinians are guilty of atrocities and war crimes, and by posting fabricated stories of Israeli "attacks"."

You refer to me as a racist, antisemitic fabricator. Sure you did it in your usual cowardly manner, the snide aside, then when you receive a little back you go into your typical snowflake mode.

I directly called you a tosser next and deservedly so. Live with it mate and stop bothering the rest of us with your whiney tantrums.

B'Tselem is a well respected Jewish human rights organisation and while you might have the ultra Zionist playbook memorised it really can't touch these guys.

Pity we have no tabulation on OLO, so just think of the following as a table:

First column: Do you support Israel [Y/N]?
Second column: Do you love Jews [Y/N]?
Third column: Do you agree with the author's views [Y/N]?
Fourth column: The result according to the author - are you an Anti-Semite [Y/N].

Here goes:

YYY -> N
YYN -> Y
YNY -> N
YNN -> Y
NYY -> N
NYN -> Y
NNY -> N
NNN -> Y

SR

I didn't refer to you at all, but apparently as the shoe fits...

And you are an antisemite and a twat so live with it.

The Israeli/Palestinian issue, with all its critics, for the most part, are clueless to its historical reality. After nearly 60 years of observation, I can genuinely say those supporting the invented peoplehood, the Palestinian narrative, can be divided into two groups.

The first group is well-intentioned but does not know Ancient or Modern Middle East history, specifically Jewish, Muslim, Israel, Palestine, and other Arab nations. Void of any historical knowledge, they absorb the Anti Israel propaganda believing that the Palestinians are the victims and Israelis are stealing their land and ethnic cleansing where they lived since the dawn of time.

The second group are Anti-Semites who don't care about the truth, and Jew bashing is their oxygen.
Deep down in the cockles of your heart, you know which faction you belong too.

shadowminister,

Of course you did but in your usual manner, some might say that of a cowardly cur.

Dear JAYYESS,

So the B'Tselem, the the Israel based Jewish group I quoted from earlier, are they ignorant of their history or are they antisemitic?

SR,

What twaddle, I posted a generic comment on the behaviour of antisemites and you being an antisemite simply reacted in your usual childish manner with insults.

B'Tselem is mostly staffed with Palestinians and while they condemn the firing of rockets and attacks on settlers as war crimes (unlike you) the reporting on this blog is far from balanced. While I would not go as far as calling them antisemitic, much of what they produce is fodder for the real antisemites.

anti semite = israel criticiser
woop bloody doop mate
How many people in this country criticise Dan, Gladys, Anna or Scomo

Y'all are mental retards

AC,

You are a mental retard. Not every one that criticises Israel is an antisemite, but antisemites typically criticise Israel while giving the terrorists such as Hamas a free pass

shadowminister,

Bollocks.

When have you ever criticised Israel?

"Settlers drive out a family that went out to graze with its flock

On Sunday morning, 3 October 2021, a family from Khirbet Lasefar in the South Hebron Hills came to graze its flock in pastureland that remained on the other side of the Separation Barrier. They coordination with the Israeli military in advance and were accompanied by soldiers. Several settlers who arrived at the scene harassed the family members and turned on a chainsaw to scare off the flock and force the family to take it away from the area. The soldiers who escorted the family watched without intervening.

The family members called the Israeli police, and when the settlers claimed to the police that the family had attacked them, the officers arrested two of the members and took them for questioning at the police station in Kiryat Arba. The two were released without charge that evening. Needless to say, none of the settlers were detained, neither for the harassment nor the false complaint."

B'Tselem

SR,

I am using the recognised definition of antisemitism.

As my debates are against vitriolic and hyperbolic criticism of Israel by rabid left whinge antisemites most of my time is spent demolishing the bullsh1t they post. While I seldom criticise Israel, I also seldom extol its virtues.

While I freely admit there is fault on both sides the tendency of many is to excuse/ignore the atrocities committed by Hamas and others in their cause.

For example B'Tselem whilst acknowledging atrocities committed by Hamas, none of their stories cover the attacks on Israeli settlements.

The above reminds me of comments saw somewhere else recently to the effect that noisy campaigning against supposed "antisemitism" largely has the opposite effect to that intended. It normally starts after attention is drawn to some dirty inappropriate behaviour of one or more Jews. Trying to silence this with cries of "antisemitism" largely just draws more attention to it. Seems to me to overall reduce antisemitism, what is needed is more PROPERLY TARGETED antisemitism or whatever to discourage the sort of behaviour that causes it. Sometimes decent Jews would be in the best positions to help bring badly behaved ones into line. This should help reduces innocent Jews suffering anti semitic actions.

Dear Mox,

Indeed.

I am also a supporter of Jewish Voice for Peace http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ who are doing solid work.

Dear Mox,

«Sometimes decent Jews would be in the best positions to help bring badly behaved ones into line.»

Care to suggest how?

Replace "Jews" with "Australians": can the ordinary decent Australians be held responsible for the misbehaviour of other Australians?

Y,

Mox is simply another antisemite who holds the entire Jewish race responsible for the actions of a few whilst ignoring the homicidal forces against them.

The Palestinian "homicidal forces" wouldn't have come into existence if it wasn't for the Balfour Agreement which in its turn wouldn't have come into existence but for the acts of the homicidal Jews. The situation continues because of the current acts of the Jewish settlers taking over Arab land.
David

A couple of recent examples of groups of people doing the wrong thing breaching anti covid restrictions in Melbourne. There was a large engagement party or whatever of which organisers and many participants were Jewish. As well as police action, one notable reaction was condemnation of this inappropriate gathering by other Jewish groups. Seemed result was that overall they were just widely regarded as a mob of idiots who happened to be Jews. However, if had been widespread support of their misbehaviour by other Jews, the reaction to this most likely would have been claimed by the likes of shadowminister to be "antisemitism". Then note protest demonstration by some building industry unionists in Melbourne against temporary tough restrictions brought in after infections due to a few not following earlier ones, which spread infections in the process. . This should not reflect against building industry unionists overall because the CFMEU condemned their action and prompted statement by union secretary something like. Ours is a dangerous industry and we don't want the likes of them in it".

shadowminister

Just because B'Tselem is Israeli with Jewish and Palestinian members does not give it credibility any more than Jewish George Soros Open Society or Neturei Karta Orthodox Jews who are Anti Zionist.

The truth is Anti Semitism, like a virus, adjusts to its environment with each generation that breathes the oxygen of its social discourse at that time. Although historically, reactionary Anti-Semitic Jewish participants are well documented, it is still under analysis by psychologists.

Well worth a read the link below in understanding who and what is B'tselem.

Finally, Israel is a vibrant democracy that gives space to an organisation that works to its destruction. Name one such organisation in the Middle East or, for that matter, anywhere else in the western and eastern world seeking its nations destruction and is quoted as a legitimate entity and allowed to operate.

https://www.commentary.org/articles/noah-pollak/the-btselem-witch-trials/

Dear Jayyess,

The Hebrew word 'betselem' means "in the image" and refers to the Biblical verse [Genesis 1:27] - "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them".

So the stated goal of "B'tselem" is to improve the morality of the Israeli people, encouraging them to behave divinely as people should, rather than as animals.

To the extent that this is indeed what they do, what purpose could be more noble or patriotic?

Yuyutsu

There is nothing noble being moral when immoral Anti-Semites try to kill you and partially succeed 24/7/365
Perhaps you should seek righteousness from Palestinians who have no other desire but to kill Jews.
Expecting a higher standard of morality from Israelis that no other nation on the planet adheres or expects from is an agency of Anti Semitism.

Dear Jayyes,

«There is nothing noble being moral when immoral Anti-Semites try to kill you and partially succeed 24/7/365»

Each one is responsible for their own morality, not for others'.

It is relatively easy to act morally when you are comfortable and everything is going your way, but remaining moral under all circumstances and trials, is superior indeed.

When in danger, failing to protect yourself may leave you without a body, but failing to remain moral may leave you with a corrupt soul. The former is preferable.

Anyway, there are situations when so-called "Palestinans" must be killed in order to save lives, when there is no other choice, but in most circumstances, Israelis and Israeli soldiers are able to act in ways they can stay BOTH alive AND moral. The only thing that might be hurt in such cases is their pride.

«Perhaps you should seek righteousness from Palestinians who have no other desire but to kill Jews.»

Why, if they continue like that, then they will be corrupt and end up in hell, not me!