Spoken like a true member of the Victorian Labor party. Unfortunately not only did the voters reject the Shorten's policies we see in currently in Victoria what Labor governments actually do. Increases in the size of the public sector greater than population growth. Increases in the salaries of the public sector including the politicians. If it is so good in Victoria why are so many Victorians fleeing the state.

This is an ALP political statement by a serving Labor politician and ex Victorian bureaucrat. I refuse to read anything by politicians who already have more than enough outlets to harangue us with their vote-buying nonsense.

Sadly, all correct! As economic managers in a global pandemic, the Morrison led government has made the keystone cops look good!

That doesn't mean the idealogical idiots on the other side of a visionless aisle would have done any better nor less partisan? With their stupidity personified anti-nuclear stance!

And when asked to justify? Could only respond, no matter how many times and in what context the question was put? It is not ( Polly want a cracker) labor policy!

The finger pointing "Author" prattles on about climate change but like all the Galahs on his side of the aisle, rejects the very solution to deal with it, i.e., carbon-free nuclear energy!

And probably is more welded to coal-fired energy than any of the unions that have labor by the short and curlies. Even as coal mining is being seriously robotised and a non-financial non-insurable risk-laden investment!

Seriously, what would a forever finger-pointing labor have done different? Or better? Or with more competency? When all the while labor led states were front and centre in the disastrous hotel quarantine and vaccine distribution! Albeit supply has always been limited by the bean-counting libs! Who spent to shore up their reelection prospects ahead of any other consideration.

Except for the economic status quo? And with almost a trillion of other folk's money!

We needed to invest in the onshore production of MRds instead of claiming we weren't equipped for the private sector to manufacture that here! We should have been building that capacity ASAP! Along with nation-building projects like very rapid rail, which could have been our generation's snowy project? And could have been a self-funding off-budget project!

Instead as has been our habit waiting with the begging bowl and handout hand outstretched, being for a free lunch or a handout vaccine!

All while other promising covid therapeutics are rolled out with glacial speed! When ramped production could have been turned into a veritable goldmine, export earning, rivers of gold, income earner! TBC
Alan B.

A senior public servant, turned Labor politician, & he has the hide to talk about falling productivity, would he ever have actually seen any productivity in his entire life.

Incidentally posting this bit of propaganda Graham really is taking the great lack of bias of OLO a few steps too far. Too much rubbish will have some loosing interest.

When we have medicine that, as an injection, kills 99.99% of any coronavirus and have not invoked the mercy rule and sent a couple of million doses to Africa, India and several other poverty-stricken counties around the pandemic riddled globe!? If only to ensure it was also safe for us, with the biggest shock and awe, clinical trial the world has ever seen!

And with that done? Sit back and wait for the rivers of gold that could have paid for MRd manufacturing facilities right here! We will just have to learn to live with a forever mutating covid many claim?

Imagine what would be the result if we said that about polio, tuberculosis or smallpox? And with the kiddies now being killed in increasing numbers! Is that stance good policy? NO! It is mot!

If we would not want a vaccine-resistant strain to emerge and kill the so-called immune cohort, our only choice is to get cracking eliminating it here and everywhere we and the richer part of the world can get too, with the others simply blocked out until they also get with the program! TBC
Alan B.

Come off it Alan.

The so called vaccine does not stop you catching the virus, nor passing it on, so what use is it.

Add to that Israel has published the fact that 46% of those who recently died of the virus were fully immunized when they contracted it.

Perhaps those bush kanakas in PNG who don't want to be jabbed are a damn sight smarter than the average westerner.

How the hard right brigade howl when confronted with the truth, how they hate it. Julian Hill tells it like it is, the incompetent Morrison government is dragging Australia down. Unfortunate A Labor government in Canberra would only produce a marginal improvement with Albo at the helm.

BTW Hassy criticising Hill for lack of productivity, didn't you spend years breezing around the Pacific, probably at taxpayer expense, playing with big boys toys as a petrol head, and being a non productive Biggles in the non productive military, again at taxpayer expense. Now living on aged welfare at taxpayer expense, like most of the hard right old folks on the forum.

Australians were being left behind since this government was elected
Julien Hill,
Wrong, you weren't even born when Goaf & Co started the rot. Ever since '72 when the unions started to run or rather ruin the Nation, decent Australians have been left behind.
Had it not been for several Coalition Govts in-between to pull the Nation together economically, things would be a lot worse now.
Labor has torn this Nation apart socially, culturally & economically. One could be forgiven to think Labor hate Australia !

Having ticked off all the easy climate-change virtue-signalling, loyal party apparatchik Hill takes great care, not to mention the elephant in the room.

Morrison and Frydenberg have announced that they are going to bounce post-COVID net migration straight back to a huge 235,000 a year, which will smash wages, productivity, and living standards. And Albanese Fake Labor is all for it. They couldn't give a toss what voters want.

Yes Steve! Called it for what it is. Big unions and big business are the masters these deplorable dopes serve. They're invariably all hot air? With the good policies resisted until it's the other guy's turn then they're rolled out as if it was the first time? Ideology rules! And pragmatism can go root itself!

You'd think just one or two would understand that coal, oil and gas are risk-laden and yet keep on trying to hang on like there's no tomorrow? And when they wake up all they've achieved is more rust belt communities!

Come on Hasbeen, a vaccine never stops anyone from becoming a carrier for the unvaccinated and as the flu demonstrates, the conferred immunity may not confer immunity for the new and mutating strains? If you're going to put words in my mouth? Expect a return serve!

In fact, it is the non-vaccinated where these new strains are created as the virus mutates to ensure it survives as many antibody resistant bacteria have, like Golden Staph e.g.

The only way we can stop that from happening, is to stop the spread by roaming hosts/humans. And the only guarantee that we control that is with quarantine that just stops that movement until the virus has run its course. For mine that's island quarantine served by relocatable hospital ships.

And I see no reason why cruise liners cannot be fitted as a fit for purpose, relocatable tertiary hospitals

Moreover, a short sharp hard lockdown invariably stops endless repetitions of partial lockdowns, all of which do more economic damage long term, than we'd do with best practice, NZ example.

Our gold standard was NSW and the Ruby Princess debacle! Followed by lots of hot air and incredible luck!
Alan B.

Dear Hasbeen,

You have just crapped on with: “The so called vaccine does not stop you catching the virus, nor passing it on, so what use is it.”

For God's sake old cock do keep up.

More figures are firming up showing these vaccines are quite effective at reducing infection rates. This is from Lancet regarding the Pfizer dose:

“Hall and colleagues report that BNT162b2's effectiveness against asymptomatic or symptomatic infection was 70% (95% CI 55–85) 21 days after a single dose and 85% (74–96) 7 days after two doses in SIREN. With the intense surveillance protocol, the risk of missing an asymptomatic infection was small. Therefore, SIREN provides robust real-world estimates of vaccine protection against infection, a crucial component to understanding how vaccination can curtail transmission.”
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00870-9/fulltext

As to claim “Add to that Israel has published the fact that 46% of those who recently died of the virus were fully immunized when they contracted it.” you still haven't provided a workable link. How about one now.

net migration straight back to a huge 235,000 a year, which will smash wages, productivity, and living standards.
Steve S,
It'd only be really scary if these migrants are the utterly unskilled variety we'll have to support.
If they're of the useful kind who can help get us back on track & stir up the Gene pool then not so bad !
The average Australian, race irrelevant, has proven to be not at all as the hype suggests so, a little new blood would turbo-charge a rather patriotism-lacking mentality towards the Nation as a whole !
Can't wait for Day 1 for the overhaul of this Nation !

Dear individual,

Mate I just can't keep up.

A year or two you were screaming this from the roof tops:

"UK is the UK in name only now, runaway immigration has derailed everything !
Australia still has a tiny chance but will Australians grasp the opportunity ?"
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 8:03:20 AM

You even said this recently: “An immigration re-think is well overdue ! Not only that, a re-think on the bureaudroids in the Department is overdue also.”

Now, just because your mate Scomo wants it you are happy for us to jump back to runaway immigration levels.

And they are runaway levels. England's net migration rates are around 2.9 per 1000 people, ours is 5.7. The societal changes that brings as well as impacts on infrastructure etc needs to be discussed and reviewed. It needs to be halved.

Why the hell aren't you onboard?

Why the hell aren't you onboard?
SteeleRedux,
Read what I wrote, it's about making tracks back towards some kind of sanity to escape the present insanity brought on by Leftists !
We have no choice but import new blood because what we have has gone stale thanks to the union demands that put Australia's competitiveness to sleep !

individual,
What union demands, exactly? The unions don't run the country, and the days of militant unions holding businesses hostage are long gone. Australia has retained its competitiveness, as can be seen by the balance of trade.

________________________________________________________________________________

Steele,
Why do you think of immigration as the problem rather than the solution? We need better infrastructure, and immigration improves the economic case for building it.

"Incidentally posting this bit of propaganda Graham really is taking the great lack of bias of OLO a few steps too far. Too much rubbish will have some loosing interest." Hasbeen

The majority of articles on OLO are biased to the right, or at the very least take a conservative viewpoint. This peace is well researched and presents facts which as yet no one has disputed. Hassy I took the time to real Hill's piece, all four pages, I doubt you did.

Indy, you surprise me with your selfish attitude towards others, being an immigrant and all that. I cannot recall you ever posting anything which indicates you made a positive contribution to the betterment of Australia in all the years you have been a resident. Other than your perverted justification of entitlement for the generous aged welfare we now pay you I doubt you have made any sort of positive contribution to Australian society at all. I hope I'm wrong, but that is the way you come across.

BTW; What made you leave the "Old Country"?

What made you leave the "Old Country"?
Paul1405,
Most definitely not the Australian Lefties !
Selfish towards others you say ? Have you fallen off your trolley again ? What's so selfish about protecting Australia from the likes of you ?

"Come on Hasbeen, a vaccine never stops anyone from becoming a carrier for the unvaccinated and as the flu demonstrates, the conferred immunity may not confer immunity for the new and mutating strains? If you're going to put words in my mouth? Expect a return serve! In fact, it is the non-vaccinated where these new strains are created as the virus mutates to ensure it survives as many antibody resistant bacteria have, like Golden Staph e.g." Alan.

Exactly wrong Alan, do a bit more research. The "experts" tell us that is is poorly performing vaccines that force the Virus to "sport", that is produce new strains to get past the vaccines that did not actually kill it. Using only partly effective vaccines will always be worse than none at all.

This is why you are told to always finish your course of antibiotics. The not killed microbe, just as with a virus, will produce a number of sports, one or more of which will get past the medication that killed most of it's parents. The best breeding ground of new strains, from the virus point of view is the patient treated with an inefficient vaccine.

Dear Aiden,

You ask:

“Why do you think of immigration as the problem rather than the solution? We need better infrastructure, and immigration improves the economic case for building it.”

The Shire I live in is one of the fastest growing in the State and also has some of the highest rates. This is because dealing with growth which is excessive, costs inordinate amounts of money and other resources.

A net migration rate per 1,000 people similar to the UK would allow a more sustainable building of that infrastructure and lessen the social impacts.

My wider question to you though is where do you envisaging this all ending? Semi rural Shires becoming populous forcing urbanisation and lessened livability in turn pushing people further out. Where does it stop? What do we want a State like Victoria looking like in 30 years?

What union demands, exactly?
Aidan,
Paul1405 accuses me of living in a tree but you're definitely hiding behind a rock if you feel the need to ask that !

individual,
A real rock? Or an imaginary one?
I ask because Australian unions nowadays understand the importance of efficiency and (unlike their British counterparts) are generally quite reasonable. I therefore strongly suspect that you are making up your claims about union demands putting Australia's competitiveness to sleep. This would probably be to represent the situation of forty years ago that you wrongly believe still to be the case.

But that's just speculation on my part - it's possible that I'm wrong on this and your claims are based on actual evidence. Hence my question: what union demands?

______________________________________________________________________________

Steele,
As I see it the main problem with infrastructure provision at the moment is there's too much of a reluctance to take on debt, so too high a proportion of costs are having to be paid up front.

As for how I'd like to see Victoria in 30 years: multiple VFT lines making it more attractive for people to live in places other than capital cities. And yes, some people in rural areas would be pushed further out; that's vastly preferable to letting the places further out decline.

are generally quite reasonable.
Aidan,
What, like asking for a pay increase during the Pandemic ?

Indy, by how much has your aged welfare increased during the pandemic? How much in taxpayer funded bonuses have you been paid?

taxpayer funded bonuses have you been paid?
Paul1405,
I did not ask for ANY unlike the arty farty mob & your Guilt industry !
Why not answer questions put to you in other posts ?

individual,
>What, like asking for a pay increase during the Pandemic ?

Yes. Not all employers have been hit hard by the pandemic, and making requests (not demands) is perfectly reasonable.

So again I ask, what union demands do you think are putting Australia's competitiveness to sleep?

Aidan,
When someone loses their job, asking for assistance is not, repeat, not a demand. When asking for a pay rise during a Pandemic it IS an immoral demand !
I have to get back to you as to which outfit tasked for a raise recently, it was some union !

Hi Aiden,

Look at that poor old billionaire Gerry Harvey, record profits, big bonuses for exects, massive payouts to shareholders, and all poor Gerry got was $12 million from taxpayers in "Jobkeeper". Maybe Gerry was bitching because he didn't pocket the $64 million like Jamie Packer was gifted for Crown Casino. The billion dollar airlines didn't do too bad, pocketing $100's million in taxpayer funds whilst charging $38,000 for one way ticket from London.

Indy, what's these question you're talking about?

individual,
WTF is your definition of a demand?
I ask because it seems at odds with the english language as I know it!

It's not immoral to ask for more pay during a pandemic, though your request is less likely to succeed than at other times. But if staff are so poorly paid that it's causing a recruitment crisis, that needs addressing even during a pandemic. And if an employer is highly profitable but still not paying well, there's no moral problem whatsoever in seeking to address that.

You seem to have got swept up in your own rhetoric! You're making it sound as if the unions are saying GIVE US A BIG PAY RISE NOW OR WE'LL GO ON STRIKE AND RUIN YOU! But that's not what they're saying and Australian unions ceased to be like that over thirty years ago.

It's not immoral to ask for more pay during a pandemic,
Aidan,
copied from the Net;
The Fair Work Commission decision by industry: 
General Retail Industry Award – 2.5% on 1 September 2021
Fast Food Industry Award – 2.5% on 1 July 2021
Pharmacy Industry Award – 2.5% on 1 July 2021
Storage Services Award – 2.5% on 1 July 2021
Hair and Beauty Industry Award – 2.5% on 1 November 2021

Shouldn't we let the show recover before asking for more pay ?

Australian unions nowadays understand the importance of efficiency
Aidan,
And, otherwise you're quite alright ? If the Unions really & I mean really wanted efficiency then they would get rid of the system that protects overpaid non-performers in every industry !
They'd fight the Peter Principle, they'd reduce senior bureaucrat & politicians' salaries etc. The list is as long as their stuff-ups !
They're the ones ruining the economy with the help of Labor politicians. Yes, there are too many duds in LNP too but they're heavily outnumbered by the others !
Come back to me once you can prove that you grasped the meaning of integrity !
Also, tell us if it's ok with you that a Public Servant can only be gotten rid of by promoting them out ?

Individual,
You seem to have quite a fanciful idea of what unions do. The politicians' salaries are set by politicians, not unions!

Indeed considering Labor have been in opposition for nearly eight years, your trying to blame Labor politicians looks like you haven't a clue what you're on about.

>Also, tell us if it's ok with you that a Public Servant can only be gotten rid of by promoting them out ?
Of course it isn't - I've heard of some of the problems that causes in India. But I don't believe that is the case in Australia.

>Shouldn't we let the show recover before asking for more pay ?
Arguably we should; the FWC looked at both sides of the argument and considered otherwise.

Wrong again Aidan.

Politicians salaries are set by a commission, the same one that sets judges salaries. Of course the commission probably relate their own salaries to the politicians, so it might be a bureaucrat scratching the politicians back, but not quite the same thing.

Aidan,
Hasbeen's post says what I wanted to add. Anyhow, The Public Sector/service Union/s don't appear to understand as you don't appear to understand also is, that ANY pay rise invariably results in price & services cost rises.
Please tell us why you don't think Unions aren't playing a part in the uncompetitiveness of Australian industry when they demand increased pay ?
Would it not be wiser & far more sustainable to freeze very high public salaries & gradually reduce the number of such bureaucrat position by natural attrition ?
If & only if one such position will be required later then reduce the salary to a morally acceptable level.
If you're not sure what moral means please take the time & Google it !

Hasbeen,
OK, so they have a commission to do it now. But the fact remains: contrary to Individual's claim, unions aren't involved.

______________________________________________________________________________

>The Public Sector/service Union/s don't appear to understand as you don't appear to
>understand also is, that ANY pay rise invariably results in price & services cost rises.

BECAUSE IT ISN'T TRUE!

What they and I understand (and you have just proven you don't) is that higher prices are just one of three main ways of funding higher wages. The other two ways are lower profits and increasing productivity.

The profits to wages ratio of the Australian economy has risen significantly over the past few decades, so don't be too quick to dismiss the former option.

Increasing productivity can stem from changes to workplace practice, but the biggest productivity gains are usually from application of improving technology (including increased mechanisation).

>Would it not be wiser & far more sustainable to freeze very high public salaries &
>gradually reduce the number of such bureaucrat position by natural attrition ?
Not if it results in a loss of capability. High salaries aren't the only way governments waste money, and far more will be wasted if they don't have the competence to do the job well. High salaries aren't necessarily a problem, but failing to get our money's worth is.

I am well aware of what moral means, but I don't believe good moral judgements come from looking at issues in the simplistic one dimensional way you do.

How much an hour does the highest paid employee in Australia receive? The answer may shock, its $21,760/hr or $43 million/year, up 13% on last year. Who is this highly paid high flyer of an employee, head of a big bank, or the worlds biggest mining company? Nah its Pascal Soriot, never heard of him, its the bloke who can afford $8 million for a house. Good old Pascal is the head of AstraZeneca the two bob company the Australian taxpayer poured millions into so it could produce its next to useless vaccine in Melbourne. Now Australia pays through the neck for their cheap vaccine.

Indy why begrudge hardworking, low paid Australians a modest 2.5% pay rise. Once you said on this Forum, your aged welfare increase hardly got you another schooner down at 'God's Waiting Room'.

Paul1405,
And, how much are the Australian taxpayers forking out for you being of no use to anyone ?

Individual,
Apologies for my attribution failure a couple of hours ago.

High salaries aren't necessarily a problem, but failing to get our money's worth is.
Aidan,
Isn't that what this is about ? We're not getting the money's worth from all on the public purse !
If you weren't one of them you'd agree !

Individual,
Wow, you're really getting ahead of yourself there - not only (wrongly) guessing my personal circumstances, but also declaring under what circumstances I'd agree with the idiotic claims you make! And I say idiotic because you keep displaying a combination of ignorance and arrogance - you seem to have trouble comprehending that the claims you make might not be correct.

>Isn't that what this is about ? We're not getting the money's worth from all on the public purse !
Not exactly. You're assuming everyone to be incompetent whether they're competent or not, and forgetting that cutting or freezing their pay is likely to result in the most competent leaving.

So what should be done to make the public sector more efficient? CROWDSOURCING SCRUTINY!
Except where there's a very good reason not to do so, the public sector should publish everything - not only what they do themselves, but what they commission from consultants. Appropriate financial reward should be given to people who can find where genuine cost savings could be made. And a proportion (maybe 10%) of the cost of each report commissioned should be withheld for a few weeks while the public try to identify errors and major shortcomings - if they are found, the money should go instead to those who find them.

I suppose I should declare that (unlike what you were suggesting) this is something I would financially benefit from.